Anything interesting happening?

[protector]

I like the part where Palem reasons pay to win as bad in a game that has sitting(pay for it of course)

I'm pretty sure sitting was introduced to reduce/remove the amount of xlogging. Sitting doesn't generate anything either

Was it against the rules when Sanc and BB decided to reset provs into fae in consecutive ages because they realized fae made for a better setup?

Was it against the rules when we reset a prov during protection because we realized he had the wrong personality?

I'm pretty confident neither of those cases are similar to what you/Rage did... they where also both done in a time where you had a 72 hour protection and not a 24 hour one. Different time, different mechanic. Apples and peaches

[tetley]

While every situation is obviously different, capricious enforcement of rules is pretty bad. It leads to a lack of confidence in authority figures and general disdain for the set of guidelines. People have to be able to proceed with some degree of faith that stuff that was okay before is going to be okay after.

Furthermore, consequences should be proportional to the crime. Why not release an amount more equivalent to the amount of aid that was given out? Why not wait until their troops were home so that all their def wasn't released? If you felt something needed to be done, couldn't it be managed better?

Sure, it was a loophole, and the reset mechanic does not exist to allow people to immediately aid and reset. But isn't that the point of the changes... to de-incentivize it so much that it becomes worse than having done it in the first place? So mis-using the loophole is already handicapped enough by the new reset timers?

Lastly, if this "violation" was so egregious, why was there no communication of this to the player-base? You clearly saw some opportunity for mis-use or abuse, which is what led to the code changes in the first place... so you would have had some awareness that people might go for it. Why not let people know ahead of time that it wasn't going to be acceptable?

Wouldn't it be better to close the loophole that you knew existed rather than hang someone once they stepped through it?

[TheOne]

It is easy to spot the bad things that people do, as people only look/see/remember the bad stuff.

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

[Godly]

1. get your numbers right

It doesn't matter what the number is. If you stole any GC from your ally, how is it any different than what we're allegedly doing ? We both allegedly are going for a leg up using means that shouldn't be available (inter-kingdom aid).

This is my point about top kingdoms doing 100 different things that fall under the spirit of the game clause that could now be actionable under the new Bishop regime.

I'm not personally saying that what you did should be actionable and I certainly wouldn't report it to Bishop because that would just be dumb. But also reporting us is dumb. And Bishop is even worse. He should know better than to action something like this. In 17 years, I've never seen a worse decision. Going into people's accounts because the balancing fix wasn't severe enough? You've gotta be kidding me. Anyone who thinks what Bishop did was good for utopia has no clue what just what you've lost. Strategies are no longer evaulated on "is it a bug?" They are evaluated on "Does Bishop like what you did?" "Does Bishop think you're a bad person?" "Is this strategy against the spirit of the rules?" Well what exactly is spirit of the rules? Because the utopia I know is a war strategy game where your job is to kill, steal, lie if you want to (AMA dealbreaking), to beat everyone else. There are no ethics. There are just overreactions... and this is one of them. Now when people come up with a good strategy, they have to inform Bishop ahead of time so he fixes it before you can use it. There is no more innovation.

And the reason I think everyone is pissed off at you cJ is because you got the admins involved instead of just dealing with the cards. Did we QQ to Bishop when we found out about your gold trade? Nah we just owned your face. You're just a pansy dressed like a man.

And as far as BB being the most ethical kingdom, they hacked a prov. End of story.


I'll close with this from the rule book, since everyone loves to quote it and try to come up with reasons why people are doing "bad things"
Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

Is it deception if you inform a kingdom that you have a CF with them and break it? Is this meant exclusively for money fraud? How do we know how Bishop is feeling that day? You could lose some military for it if the super police don't like your attitude or your tone. You can choose to be sheep or you can stand up against it before it happens to your kingdom and cJ reports for 100 different things in hopes one of them gets a prov suspended.

[faegan]

While every situation is obviously different, capricious enforcement of rules is pretty bad. It leads to a lack of confidence in authority figures and general disdain for the set of guidelines. People have to be able to proceed with some degree of faith that stuff that was okay before is going to be okay after.

Furthermore, consequences should be proportional to the crime. Why not release an amount more equivalent to the amount of aid that was given out? Why not wait until their troops were home so that all their def wasn't released? If you felt something needed to be done, couldn't it be managed better?

Sure, it was a loophole, and the reset mechanic does not exist to allow people to immediately aid and reset. But isn't that the point of the changes... to de-incentivize it so much that it becomes worse than having done it in the first place? So mis-using the loophole is already handicapped enough by the new reset timers?

Lastly, if this "violation" was so egregious, why was there no communication of this to the player-base? You clearly saw some opportunity for mis-use or abuse, which is what led to the code changes in the first place... so you would have had some awareness that people might go for it. Why not let people know ahead of time that it wasn't going to be acceptable?

Wouldn't it be better to close the loophole that you knew existed rather than hang someone once they stepped through it?

RTFM? It's punishable by deletion; I'd say it was pretty well balanced punishment. Again, it's not a 0-sum equation. Break the rules and be prepared to lose more than you gained/put into it.

[Elit]

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

I think BB and AMA are very close in this list :)
Just BB are so peaceful kd and AMA is kinda scary :P


p.s.
Godly,
AMA never del broke you. Its was Havoc broke his deal with us serve pre notice on notice when deal dont give you this right.
To sum it: Godly is cheater and deal breaker!

[Anri]

It is easy to spot the bad things that people do, as people only look/see/remember the bad stuff.

Maybe we should all create a thread and write out the real positive/fair play stuff that we did. I am pretty sure among the kingdoms of AMA, BB, CR, Pew, Pyro, Simians, Rage and others... BB would probably be the most respected among all.

can anyone from CR provide a simple list and examples of their past actions that showed fairplay?

-cJ

Yes, create the thread. Regarding BB, they played fair last ages from my perspective but they also have a bad history in many ways. I can mention several things that was borderline. (Flogger warring HoH and wding right before EoA to give them crown, yes, Flogger played together with Ravenant before and Flogger told me they had EoA cf, you can call it friendly war, but when warring a KD so much bigger before EoA to give them warwin, its not about being friendly, its about giving HoH the charity crown, it is probably worse then what my own KD did, because BB never got cornered into doing it, they just set it up to hand HoH the crown). Little do we speak about this, because, its BB, they all so fair over there, they only hacked provs and powerplayed etc. Id like only to highlight that none of the KDs above has been fair in the past but is trying to change and some of them played for for the last 2-3 ages at least. More then we can say about pyromaniacs that use allies to fund thier own wars to have a better chance of winning the wars. I dont buy all of your BS cJ and i think more and more people have learnt to see thru it. Does not matter how much bold and underlined text you use. Also, from what i know, you have no idea of what has been going on in the top before you came there so stop acting as if you know **** about it. You can talk about last 2 ages etc all you like, but dont pretend you know what went down before this and in what way it went down. The top been poluted forever and BB nor Simians, AMA, pew or anyone else up there is free from ****play. All done it, some done it better then others, some tried to hide it or managed to hide it better and some just done it right infront everyone else. Almost like Pyro thinks no one will notice how they farm allies for gc to get edge in top wars. cJ, its okey if you want to post all good deeds you done, id like to see that list.

You still dont get it do you, we want to make the future of this game better, what happend in the past does not matter and you certainly do not know much about the past so you are the last player that should say something about it.

Using a game mechanics to thier strength has NOTHING to do with fair play to avoid dealbreaks and all of that. Mechanics is a whole other topic. Dont twist your head to much over it. I know you cant tell the difference.

Maybe you can go report the one that sent you 25 messages to Bishop, if you figured out yet why it was done. Its a flaw in the system as well. big lol on that one

[Bishop]

It doesn't matter what the number is. If you stole any GC from your ally, how is it any different than what we're allegedly doing ? We both allegedly are going for a leg up using means that shouldn't be available (inter-kingdom aid).

This is my point about top kingdoms doing 100 different things that fall under the spirit of the game clause that could now be actionable under the new Bishop regime.

I'm not personally saying that what you did should be actionable and I certainly wouldn't report it to Bishop because that would just be dumb. But also reporting us is dumb. And Bishop is even worse. He should know better than to action something like this. In 17 years, I've never seen a worse decision. Going into people's accounts because the balancing fix wasn't severe enough? You've gotta be kidding me. Anyone who thinks what Bishop did was good for utopia has no clue what just what you've lost. Strategies are no longer evaulated on "is it a bug?" They are evaluated on "Does Bishop like what you did?" "Does Bishop think you're a bad person?" "Is this strategy against the spirit of the rules?" Well what exactly is spirit of the rules? Because the utopia I know is a war strategy game where your job is to kill, steal, lie if you want to (AMA dealbreaking), to beat everyone else. There are no ethics. There are just overreactions... and this is one of them. Now when people come up with a good strategy, they have to inform Bishop ahead of time so he fixes it before you can use it. There is no more innovation.

And the reason I think everyone is pissed off at you cJ is because you got the admins involved instead of just dealing with the cards. Did we QQ to Bishop when we found out about your gold trade? Nah we just owned your face. You're just a pansy dressed like a man.

And as far as BB being the most ethical kingdom, they hacked a prov. End of story.


I'll close with this from the rule book, since everyone loves to quote it and try to come up with reasons why people are doing "bad things"
Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

Is it deception if you inform a kingdom that you have a CF with them and break it? Is this meant exclusively for money fraud? How do we know how Bishop is feeling that day? You could lose some military for it if the super police don't like your attitude or your tone. You can choose to be sheep or you can stand up against it before it happens to your kingdom and cJ reports for 100 different things in hopes one of them gets a prov suspended.

tldr: stop cheating Godly.

[Dark Knight]

Anri, just go and lose yourself a war...

What's your win rate, 15%.... for the last 2 years?

[Godly]

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

BB hacked an account, AMA dealbroke. If you ask me, that puts both kingdoms at the bottom of the list. What did we do? We used a tactic that the admin claimed is legal. Much cheat. Such wow.

[TheOne]

Godly, I can bet with you that there's at least >5 mails regarding this mechanic abuse. And there were definitely many non-Pyros that mailed too. So yeah target me all you want, but at least I will say openly that I did mailed. I saw something which is against the rules of 'Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.'

Maybe you can ask Bishop on how many actually reported?

[Bishop]

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

Oh, i didn't realise your guys respawned after being razekilled and that this actually occurred last age when that quote was relevant. I thought this happened this age after your guys abused the reset mechanic to funnel aid out.

[Godly]

Why would 5 kingdoms send out mail? Answer: You told them to. Why would anyone else even notice this let alone care? You're such a joke.

[Dark Knight]

Godly would make a good used car salesman!

[Korp]

"Validate for what? Its not a rule violation to respawn." - Bishop pre sellout.

BB hacked an account, AMA dealbroke. If you ask me, that puts both kingdoms at the bottom of the list. What did we do? We used a tactic that the admin claimed is legal. Much cheat. Such wow.

I dont see how you dont understand this, its not against the rules to reset. But abusing the reset function as you did is. You claim to be a smart guy how can you not comprehend this simple fact?

Dont forget that you abused game mechanics last age as well thou it wasnt actioned on.