#1 province

[tetley]

Pickering baby!

[Zauper]

Zauper you are total n00b. If i say something its by definition true and you don't have right to argue. Stick to this rule and you will have easy life.
Logs with nesta are correct and this part: [18:32] <Elit> now after you talked with protector i don't see how this can be set was done 2-3 days early followed with more logs 2-3 days early. After it Nesta/CJ didn't contact me at all. Im not home atm for show logs/time tamp but if you keep insist this nonsense later you will give us 20k for spear lies.

Maximouse , all i have promised is landrop you for 10k acres and after it WSk is interest to war you. Zauper bring Pyro in our chat and requested ama to CF them so he can get more easy cf and i did it too. Did you gave us after it 10k acres? No = break deal.

So what you're saying is that you had already offered a deal to pyro, and then later they chose to accept it, and you're still claiming that you only offered it because of CR?

This is counter logical because the deal had already been offered, according to you now 2-3 days prior to contacting CR.

You didn't offer the deal because you expected to get acres from CR.

There's also a big difference between 'pyro hasn't contacted us' and 'talks with pyro are stalled because we want 3k acres'. The second is what's true; the first is what you said. So by definition, 'pyro hasn't contacted us' was not true. Sorry brah. Perhaps you meant 'pyro hasn't contacted us today'. That would be true. But similar to how 'think so' does not mean 'yes we agree 100%', 'pyro hasn't contacted us' does not mean 'pyro hasn't contacted us today'

Anywho, gl to all kds this age.

e: pm'd nesta with my loc/provname for my 5 credits.

[Proteus]

I remember when all proteus used to talk about was crowns. He chastised zauper. He chasitised me. He chasitised anyone. It was crown this, crown that. Now that he hasn't gotten a crown in a coons age, it's all about "consistency". Such jokes. Many lols.

For someone to be considered good they need to do well consistently, no one can crown every age but they can at least establish their presence of one of the best kds on the server through consistent chart placement and war wins over other good kds, havoc has failed to do this. You guys won once, the same way SWEA did and have as many crowns as they do. No one considered swea a top kd and you are in the same boat as them.

I'm retired from leading already and don't play anymore as well but in spite of all of that I still have more crowns when I was a leader (the only crowns that count) than you do, not to mention kd I was leading ended t3 every single age and had a heavily lopsided win-loss record (1 war loss in 10 ages or so which was to bb). So yes you are terrible and never even lead, get over yourself....the only two kds that have demonstrated consistent results in the post-absalom era are ama and bb.

[Korp]

For someone to be considered good they need to do well consistently, no one can crown every age but they can at least establish their presence of one of the best kds on the server through consistent chart placement and war wins over other good kds, havoc has failed to do this. You guys won once, the same way SWEA did and have as many crowns as they do. No one considered swea a top kd and you are in the same boat as them.

I'm retired from leading already and don't play anymore as well but in spite of all of that I still have more crowns when I was a leader (the only crowns that count) than you do, not to mention kd I was leading ended t3 every single age and had a heavily lopsided win-loss record (1 war loss in 10 ages or so which was to bb). So yes you are terrible and never even lead, get over yourself....the only two kds that have demonstrated consistent results in the post-absalom era are ama and bb.

From a unbiased viewpoint, CR has done farily well and would be considered one of the the current top kingdoms in the game. While you try to put CR and SWEA in the same boat its quite not that easy, Im pretty sure you realize this as well. While SWEA was a one age kingdom due to the dubious playstyle they had CR has proven to be more consistent. At the same time, what is more worth? Winning once or never win? To me its fairly easy, its better to win gold than constantly hound around the number one spot but never quite hit the mark.

Its easy being a leader when you have a finished product ready to take over ^^ Just look at your other projects and kingdoms didnt fair so well, even with the massive cheaeting. :)

[Elit]

So what you're saying is that you had already offered a deal to pyro, and then later they chose to accept it, and you're still claiming that you only offered it because of CR?

Dont know why you try act like Sherlock Holmes. Told you i had chat with nesta 2-3 days before my chat with you and its end with NO DEAL. After it Nesta or CJ didn't contact me at all till you pmed me and told you are interest from my offer. After it YOU BRING in chat pyro and told you cant get cf from them because they dont have cf with AMA and my reply was: if they dont ask cant get and right after it nesta pmed me. Timing clear show you and nesta talked same time and you pasted it to him. For help you to get cf from pyro i gave them so easy CF. Its your failure if you had problem after it and didn't told me.

What is important is how you confirm we have deal and not keep it after this.

[Zauper]

Dont know why you try act like Sherlock Holmes. Told you i had chat with nesta 2-3 days before my chat with you and its end with NO DEAL. After it Nesta or CJ didn't contact me at all till you pmed me and told you are interest from my offer. After it YOU BRING in chat pyro and told you cant get cf from them because they dont have cf with AMA and my reply was: if they dont ask cant get and right after it nesta pmed me. Timing clear show you and nesta talked same time and you pasted it to him. For help you to get cf from pyro i gave them so easy CF. Its your failure if you had problem after it and didn't told me.

What is important is how you confirm we have deal and not keep it after this.

I said nothing of the sort. It's very clear we didn't have an agreed to deal, everyone in this thread -- other than you -- has admitted to that.

My timestamps with Nesta were unedited, and there is no cutoff in the middle of that conversation. There is a 30 minute gap where we don't talk to eachother, in which time I'm talking to you.

Jun 02 09:51:59 <NesTa13> can we arrange for something to secure our 3rd spot
Jun 02 09:52:25 <zapanap> uhm, we could stick with 24h notice and you guys could notice us if we beat WSK enough to get in range to compete for #3, but seems unlikely with ~2 weeks left that we would
Jun 02 09:52:34 <zapanap> we probably couldn't give acres before warring WSK
Jun 02 09:54:29 <NesTa13> how about honor bonus for your war win if you beat wsk, and if you still cross us, thats all dependent on you
Jun 02 09:54:36 <NesTa13> all this contingent on you guys dropping 10k anyway
Jun 02 09:56:04 <zapanap> seems fine to me, i know topsy doesn't care about #3 vs #4, munk doesn't either. maybe maxi does, i'll check with him

Jun 02 10:24:14 <zapanap> i hear you have a cf with ama now? :p

It's true that we couldn't make a deal with you without having one with pyro if our deal with you is contingent on us warring WSK. You CFing pyro made it possible for them to CF us, but it's not like you made it contingent on them CFing us for free, and the deal they accepted was one you had offered prior, so there's no reason to think we were in any way involved.

Sorry. You didn't manage to achieve any of your side:
1) Reasonable war deal with WSK. They wanted 1+ weeks to prep and explore, which doesn't make sense if we're dropping to their size (also doesn't make sense to drop if they're going to explore to where we are...)
2) free CF with pyro

Y u dealbreak?

[Elit]

My offer i gave to munk NEVER involved pyro and dont know why you bother to post arguments about them. YOU proposed from us to give cf to pyro so you can get more easy cf and WE DID IT.
My offer was to landrop you 10k acres and after it you can war with WSs ~~ same size. You gone and none from your kd pmed me for set details. I cant understand why when you know you are going away 24h later you start all this chat and told you like offer? Was easy to let munk or some other why stay in kd to come and talk.

[Proteus]

From a unbiased viewpoint, CR has done farily well and would be considered one of the the current top kingdoms in the game. While you try to put CR and SWEA in the same boat its quite not that easy, Im pretty sure you realize this as well. While SWEA was a one age kingdom due to the dubious playstyle they had CR has proven to be more consistent. At the same time, what is more worth? Winning once or never win? To me its fairly easy, its better to win gold than constantly hound around the number one spot but never quite hit the mark.

Its easy being a leader when you have a finished product ready to take over ^^ Just look at your other projects and kingdoms didnt fair so well, even with the massive cheaeting. :)

Problem with this approach is that you have a side which says the only proof of skill is crown count and nothing else counts (chart placement, war wins, etc). This is the argument always used against AMA (and usually from people from havoc). Ok so you support the claim of havoc being on of the best kds, I can see this being said based on them having an experienced roster for the most part, not many former top leaders with the exception of zauper, but core etc is experienced and good. But what have they done in game to support their claim, the school of thought that says only crowns matter would say well they only have one crown, other truly great kingdoms have multiple crowns and strong consistency/longevity. The other school of thought that says you cant always crown due to variables outside of your control (chart shape, farmouts, dealbreak, etc.) will give weight to overall chart placement/consistency as well as war wins over other kds widely recognized as being very good...but in this category havoc has not done well either because they only age they charted well was the age they won 1x, they have not beaten ama/bb in war, and they have lost in a late age war to pyro (which is a kd thats not considered as experienced as cr). So then the only thing that supports their claim of being one of the best kingdoms is their roster+1 crown but from an execution perspective they did poorly.

Completely agreed its easier to join an established kd than to make one from scratch, the main benefit is name recognition which gives access to recruits of caliber. At the end of the day if you are the main leader in a good old kd or in a brand new kd, if you dont know how to lead your kd will not do well since the person behind decision making is flawed. The main difference in my opinion is access to recruits, when we made our kd back in age 48 or whatever it was our player base compared to a kd like rage/sanc was definitely much weaker, we did stay in the t5-10 during the age except for the last 2 weeks when sanc farmed us but thats to be expected as they were a much better kd but aside from that we did beat mercy and a few other good/decent kds. The difference between that kd and running rage was really the ease of recruiting talented players (when we made our kd we were part of the winning alliance that age so i wont consider the alliance issue there). But the problem with the overall argument of making a new kd vs. joining one from a skill of leadership is hard to argue because you can still judge presidents/kings/other governments that join an already established governments and some do much better than others or coaches brought to lead established sports teams and are still able to differentiate themselves based on skill. Same goes for Rage, I was by no means their best or worse leader, say out of 5-10 leaders in its existence the kd had different performance/results under each leader though it was always an "existing kd."

The way I personally see havoc is one if the better kds in game due to contraction of player base so its really a de facto ranking but i also see them as a tier below ama/bb because those kds have performed much better on a consistent basis and 1v1 vs havoc. Happy to debate this some more with you, its really the arguments that nickmi uses that make no sense like counting some kind of random nw crown or other bs tha no one cares about.

[tetley]

So wait - if it was posted here I missed it - who in pyro won #1 prov land?

[TheOne]

So wait - if it was posted here I missed it - who in pyro won #1 prov land?

not sure if you heard of him before or not, but his utopia nick is teamwork.

[Elit]

So wait - if it was posted here I missed it - who in pyro won #1 prov land?

Some random n00b :)

[DM_Benjamin]

If I remove my cello signature before the month, as agreed, is up does that constitute a deal break from CR?

Or do I get the proteus discount because we didn't put my signature in escrow?

[tetley]

CJ are you being funny or is the guy's nick actually teamwork?
I wish I had a land prov crown...

[Maximouse]

Ben, keep the signature. I will consider it a dealbreak towards CR if you remove it prior to the final we are going to win

[Malogar]

I didnt win. I got chained every war. I blame CR.