Proposal to end he Awar

[Aranfein]

Seriously some of you need to <removed>...

Doesnt matter if its Emeriti or who else it is, wishing a kingdom to disband or forcing 1 to is lame, we all like the game and enjoy playing it, if Emeriti is so dirty why would you want to split the collective cheaters into different kingdoms when you got them all under 1 name? seems like an extremely bad choice to me.

Everyone knows i dont like Abs/Emeriti/CR or whatever you wish to call the different Abs players kingdoms, but i do not wish them gone or disbanding, they give me a reason to play, I got every reason to join the fight and hit Emeriti/Zauper etc. because of the ****play done towards myself and previous kingdoms ive played for, but i honestly believe its bad for the game if they are forced to disband, just see how many people have joined up just because they want a piece of the cake on whatever side they support.

Yes Emeriti made extremely bad choices this age and possibly last (maybe even first age they came around), thats lead to them getting gangbanged now, i cant say its not warranted but usually you kill the switch once the man is dead, if you believe Emeriti is still a threat drop them out the race and jump them everytime they enter top10 or whatever, and dont make CF deals with them... Im pretty sure they would be out of the crown race for sure, and if not well redo current scenerio.

[flogger]

That offers been on the table for like 2 weeks now arafien, they seemingly want to continue to fight

[Sheister]

This mutual agreement, when did it expire and when was it agreed upon ingame?

There was a mutual understanding that a CF was to be in place until yr5 or 6 and, at emeriti's suggestion, possibly as far as year 8. There was no disagreement that there was to be a CF, just the duration of it was not settled. The minimum time was yr 5. This is what is called a "course of dealing" in the parlance of the UCC. When parties are acting in accordance with the usual course of dealing terms can be binding despite things not having been fully reduced to a finalized writing.

Four corners of a document will normally trump everything else, but in the absence of an express writing, there are many ways that an agreement can be found based upon equitable principles. That is why contract law falls in the body of actions called equitable actions which are different from legal actions. Most jurisdictions have merged these two for pleading purposes into a single form of action, but the claims still resolve as equitable or legal claims depending on the issues involved.

Lots of rights that people normally think they have do not exist in equity. Lots of rights people think they have in equity are not available in law. This gets into the minutia of remedies and the fundamental differences of powers between traditional European courts back in the way back when.

BTW, the line of argumentation that Emeriti is dealing in now is what is called "sharp" practice. It is sometimes used by entities in commerce, generally about one or two quarters/years before they go bankrupt because no one wants to do business with an entity or person that violates the spirit of a deal or takes advantage of a mistake or omission in the drafting of an agreement for some short term gain and thereby injures the long term relationship.

[Mithras]

So we agree on that there was no other confirmed deal than the 72h notice that was in place. Ty. Been saying that all along.

And Anri, since you are the one slinging muck about it: When was the last time you considered a non confirmed cf deal without duration binding when you had an agreed deal in place already? And why are you so upset since Simians didn't have any part in it?

[Mithras]

And Sheister, utopian praxis has been (for quite some time now I believe) to confirm a final deal when it is agreed on. That way the amount of text needed to copy, the risk of misunderstandings and the amounts of lawyers needed is kept at a minimum. I think everyone prefere it that way.

[Aranfein]

Fair enough flogger, i just found it odd its still going on when Emeriti has quite clearly lost it "atleast for the time being", so couldnt see why a deal hasnt been made, this prolonged circle arguments doesnt help and is in no way going to end all this any time soon by how heated the debates on here seem to get.

I do think its bad taste some of the posts made here that claims a disband is all they want though, for people to type and wish that either doesnt care for the game or doesnt understand the implications of good kingdoms disbanding.


Mithras if a kingdom continue to ignore to finalize a deal, just to pull a fast one kinda ruins what you just said..Because how can one agree on a deal if 1 side keeps pretending not to be around and stalling so long the deal attempt becomes pointless, and just to point out the obvious, every time ive made a deal with anyone like ASF, Elit, Maximouse, Binar, zauper, Topsy and many more of the snake tongues (sorry about the expression no offense meant), yes i do feel like i need my lawyer present, because a miss of a comma gets exploited to say a deal means something completely different, or you have them making loopholes in a loophole.

For some people a deal where a spade is a spade is suddenly a spaceship..

[flogger]

Actually Mithras, that's mostly an abs thing. The rest of us just have normal conversations. Most the no notice in war, eow, hostile junk came from proteus's sneaky notices while leading rage.

[Palem]

Maybe this is just a semantics thing but, to me, arguing "against saying that Emeriti is getting gangbanged because of their actions this age" suggests that the point you are trying to make is that it had nothing to do with this age. Now if you had included the word "only" as in "saying that Emeriti is getting gangbanged ONLY because of their actions this age" then there would be no confusion.

Sorry, I don't treat the utopia forums like a police interrogation. I come in, say what I'm thinking and move on. I'll be sure to have my lawyers draw up some papers before my next post to make sure you don't haphazardly assume with 97% certainty what I mean.

Proven? Where was their proof? The only proof they offered was "coincidence".

The proof was your inability to provide proof. You provided a screenshot of a text conversation with some unnamed contact. If you're going to make accusations the burden of proof lies with you. Without any actual reason to believe you while you drone on and on for pages about how they're cheaters all you're doing is yelling fire in a movie theater and insisting to the police that they can't prove there wasn't a small fire. You're still going to jail.

For instance:
Flogger x-logs for all of BB.

Go ahead and prove me wrong.

[Mithras]

Actually Mithras, that's mostly an abs thing. The rest of us just have normal conversations. Most the no notice in war, eow, hostile junk came from proteus's sneaky notices while leading rage.

Interesting Flogger. I learned all that sh*t from Anri after he used wordplay to allow him to notice from war while still preventing us from noticing him. He did all that by agreeing on one thing on irc and sending something else in the ingame messege we confirmed. But ofc, I havn't been doing this for long.

My impression is pretty clear though. Everyone tries to get the edge somehow, by all means necesary. The only limit is individual players character and moral. You making stuff up to gb when you can't win fair was clearly within your characters and morals. Some set up deals that favor them. Some dealbreak. In the end it all comes down to what kind of game we want and how we want to win.

[bombdigie]

It confirms Leshrak and Nesta having a mutual understanding then you coming online like a dishonest man to give a flat 72h notice to Pyro to dodge Simians. Why Pyro did not react harder, maybe they wanted the war and saw their chance, i dont know. The logg confirms exactly what we knew from the start. You are just to little of a man to admit you played us unfairly. ASF mentioned how you might not have treated Simians to fair last age, but thats to much for the rest to bare. So i will continue to work the anti-abs agenda for as long as it takes.

No we were pissed off that they screwed with us. I was one of the largest provinces in the kingdom at the time and went full econ with my books, I also had just rebuilt all lands to pump science and then a few hours later they notice. We were under impression that we had secured all CF's, but it turns out they were shady and blowing smoke up Nesta's ass.

[bombdigie]

Fair enough flogger, i just found it odd its still going on when Emeriti has quite clearly lost it "atleast for the time being", so couldnt see why a deal hasnt been made, this prolonged circle arguments doesnt help and is in no way going to end all this any time soon by how heated the debates on here seem to get.

I do think its bad taste some of the posts made here that claims a disband is all they want though, for people to type and wish that either doesnt care for the game or doesnt understand the implications of good kingdoms disbanding.


Mithras if a kingdom continue to ignore to finalize a deal, just to pull a fast one kinda ruins what you just said..Because how can one agree on a deal if 1 side keeps pretending not to be around and stalling so long the deal attempt becomes pointless, and just to point out the obvious, every time ive made a deal with anyone like ASF, Elit, Maximouse, Binar, zauper, Topsy and many more of the snake tongues (sorry about the expression no offense meant), yes i do feel like i need my lawyer present, because a miss of a comma gets exploited to say a deal means something completely different, or you have them making loopholes in a loophole.

For some people a deal where a spade is a spade is suddenly a spaceship..

The disbanding was a joke dude, I was just spreading a little Joker anarchy. I'm just a noisy voice but am not a reflection of the leaders of this AWAR. Sorry for the confusion.

[bombdigie]

Sorry, I don't treat the utopia forums like a police interrogation. I come in, say what I'm thinking and move on. I'll be sure to have my lawyers draw up some papers before my next post to make sure you don't haphazardly assume with 97% certainty what I mean.



The proof was your inability to provide proof. You provided a screenshot of a text conversation with some unnamed contact. If you're going to make accusations the burden of proof lies with you. Without any actual reason to believe you while you drone on and on for pages about how they're cheaters all you're doing is yelling fire in a movie theater and insisting to the police that they can't prove there wasn't a small fire. You're still going to jail.

For instance:
Flogger x-logs for all of BB.

Go ahead and prove me wrong.

I was told from a member of their kingdom that it happened. Whether or not I have been trolled is debatable. The burden is now on them to disprove it - they came to us with this information. In the middle of the thread it was ascertained that the monarch was in fact bff with a leader/voice/tactical advisor of Emeriti. We did not know that until then, but predicted that was the case. What a coincidence! The gold stealing may have been a troll, or it may have been true, only Bishop knows the truth. They did however act on behalf of Emeriti, that is quite obvious, I mean coincidental.

Man, I'm on a roll, lets talk about more coincidences, all accused parties of chart shaping and **** playing all rushed to raze the opponent of Emeriti in war. I mean what a coincidence that all of these parties that were accused (which of course are baseless and blatant lies, amirite?) come rushing to aid the kingdom that has benefited from all of these accusations.

[Crunch]

Green on...............

[flogger]

Interesting Flogger. I learned all that sh*t from Anri after he used wordplay to allow him to notice from war while still preventing us from noticing him. He did all that by agreeing on one thing on irc and sending something else in the ingame messege we confirmed. But ofc, I havn't been doing this for long.

My impression is pretty clear though. Everyone tries to get the edge somehow, by all means necesary. The only limit is individual players character and moral. You making stuff up to gb when you can't win fair was clearly within your characters and morals. Some set up deals that favor them. Some dealbreak. In the end it all comes down to what kind of game we want and how we want to win.

Some people made some stuff up, but don't know what I said other than posting the council logs of what happenned immediately after i indicated i wouldn't want a cf and wanted to fight y'all fair instead. Seems you guys don't get that ya drew first blood in the "not fair" game, but whatever, if ain't convinced by now Ya aren't gonna be.

[Mithras]

You accepted compensation for the transgressions.
You made a cf with the intent to dealbreak after everything was in the open.
You trumphed up a full conspiracy that never existed.
You kept spies in our LS chan.

Add to that the full dealbreak. The 2 on 1. Hitting into war. Lying to other kds to support you.

Nah, you probably did nothing. Except everything you accused us for. Times a hundred?