Proposal to end he Awar

[AquaSeaFoam]

funny how your proposal was agreed to from our side before you go away, then you go away and your side rejects your proposal that we agreed to and instead continues the gb and trad march farming.

[scheffie]

good lord, go away for a day thinking a war is coming to an end, then you go ahead and read some dorje posts. He sure does know how to muck that up, doesn't he.

Lets start with happy birthday! Hope u had an awesome day and good luck reading up now.

[Palem]

We won, its inevitable we profit in the process, its part of game mechanics. And yes we did "earn" it. This whole affair was not one sided and for a while things looked pretty bad for us actually.
If you dont have character/game knowledge to admit/recognize the diference between what we are doing/have done and oportunistc whoring thats your problem.
As far as Emeriti not fighting its their decision to give up. I have very limited inside knowledge into diplomacy involved and cant rly pass judgement on the topic. Emeriti were scheduled to be dismantled and we proceed with it until diplo solution is reached, thats all I know and can confirm.

I think it's actually your problem. Your whole cause is starting to make you look like scumbags.

I've lost a lot of respect for BB and FS over this. sAD

[Crunch]

I've only said the truth while your side has been caught and exposed in numerous lies. It's true that people dislike the truth when it doesn't suit their agenda.
http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-b...-win-arguments

As for support, BB planned this deal break and gb from the second they found out it was Bour who hit them in YR0 according to flogger. They were allied with Pyro since at least the start of last age so they already had one top alliance mate. They helped FS beat down a kingdom for FS last age so FS owed them. Right off the bat, they already had 2 of the top 3 nw kingdoms this age and one of the most successful war kingdoms of recent previous ages. They then had close to 4 weeks to continue to gather support and plan for their secret deal break and gb into war.

Is it really any surprise that Emeriti, a solo kingdom with no top allies, who was surprise deal broke and jumped into their war vs the #2 nw kingdom was at a big disadvantage? As for numbers who joined to help, Emeriti actually got as many kingdoms volunteering to help them as BB got despite all their planning. But when the #3 nw kingdom deal breaks and gbs the #1 kingdom into war vs the #2 kingdom, then the #3 kingdom is going to massively profit and quickly become too strong to deal with by numbers alone. Once Emeriti was taken out, there was no way left to do much to BB. Once it's clear you have a huge top advantage, then it's not hard to get the profiteers to join your side both for the free acres, and for the promises of help post alliance war. You've won the gb on Emeriti, but don't delude yourself to think that it's because more people believed you were right. You won because you started with 2 of the top 3 kingdoms in a surprise gb and Emeriti's biggest ally (that only became an ally after the gb) was much smaller.

Nearly all of the independent kingdoms speaking here are unanimous in stating that BB and friends have gone way too far here. Deal breaking and gang banging into war and refusing to end it despite Emeriti accepting all terms flogger proposed is completely uncalled for. Flogger and protected have been exposed in numerous lies where they are directly claiming untrue things in their propaganda. If they were in the right, why do they need to lie about most of what they say and continue to deny even when their lies have been proven with logs and screen shots? Say what you like about me personally, but I've been posting the truth here from the beginning and continue to do so be it good or bad.

Although you've won your deal break gang bang into war (congrats), you've proven yourself to care nothing about honorable play.

still spewing the same lies i see... It is clear you and your side have no remorse and you will never learn.. the only plan was emoreti getting their allied ghetto abs friend to raze a competitor and than perpetrate a massive cover up with 89 pages of lies and deceptive statements. the one regret most of us have is that you are not playing. and now where is that ghetto friend of yours parked in vm so he can multi from another prov?
this has not gone far enough not until the remaining 37k acres vanish

[AquaSeaFoam]

I refer to is as propaganda and lies cause lot of it is. Namely the fact BB gb'ed a KD for us.

BB bouncewaved ~one province~ for us and straight up after their wave the said KD jumped in war with another KD and was left alone. There was no gangbang.

But ofc you spin the story, obfuscate the facts and mix false statements with lack of context to present the story as it fits you, completely misspresenting the situation in the process.

You are right, I didn't have all the facts about this and it's something your kingdom has tried to hide during this so it wasn't easy to get your side of the facts. The kingdom that BB helped you with told me that last age BB helped you gb them by bounce waving their bigs down. If it was only 1 big that BB bounced down for you then perhaps calling it a gb was overstating it. Regardless, you did owe BB for helping you and obviously have a close relationship with them.

[bombdigie]

good lord, go away for a day thinking a war is coming to an end, then you go ahead and read some dorje posts. He sure does know how to muck that up, doesn't he.

QFT, those posts were quite despicable.

[citadela01]

I think it's actually your problem. Your whole cause is starting to make you look like scumbags.

I've lost a lot of respect for BB and FS over this. sAD

Your respect is yours to give, I wont presume to tell you what to do with it.

But I dont think FS did anything bad. As I see things BB got powerplayed and decided to fight it out, fullout and gloves off. We decided they had cause for it and when multiple KD's started steping in so did we. On the side we belived was right.

You are taking moral high ground and judging us based on actions in the aftermath of the fight, its pretty lame to even call it GB tbh. This was fullout war from both side with plenty KD's involved.
Pyro got gb'ed to **** in thier war with Emeriti and so did FS in their war with outsiders, at one point we had like 2 alive attackers on 100 acres and nothing else.

Asf&crew pose like a victim here but they are not. They were the agressor and ****player initially and theres a trail of ruined KD's in their trail. I dont like that some of people on our side are looking to maximize the profit, but I also dont see the need to be "nice" and leniant to loosers in this war.

[Palem]

Respect is earned, not given.

[bombdigie]

but I also dont see the need to be "nice" and leniant to loosers in this war.

[curdie]

Happy birthday (belated) Flogger, keep up the just fight!

[citadela01]

You are right, I didn't have all the facts about this and it's something your kingdom has tried to hide during this so it wasn't easy to get your side of the facts. The kingdom that BB helped you with told me that last age BB helped you gb them by bounce waving their bigs down. If it was only 1 big that BB bounced down for you then perhaps calling it a gb was overstating it. Regardless, you did owe BB for helping you and obviously have a close relationship with them.

We never lied about being friendly with BB, its acknowledged even now in warforum with Emeriti, and I have already rebuked that claim about that so called gb once in this thread after you made it. You may have missed it but its definitely not our fault you (and jdorje) keep repeating it.
Said KD double hostiled us into ED hostile, than into Stoner hostile, and in the end into Sleepy beatdown. I dont see why should we be ashamed for asking help in such situation, or BB for giving it. I also think we have been extremely leniant to them to settle for just forcing them to back off and not call for massive help to GB them down like we could have.

That does not mean we owed BB to help gb you. We only joined war after our LS was presented with logs of Emeriti council and we only acted defensivly initially by rk'ing Bours KD and staying out of your war with Pyro.
I am pretty sure (not 100%) we didnt interfered into your war until Bour/meep/outsiders steped in ... I dont remember exact timelines for all kd's involved.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Helping BB deal break and wave into active war is not acting defensively. That's just silly to even claim that. Also, Francis (is that you?) did deny being friendly with BB when I talked to him and pointed out how he will rob BB same as anyone else to try and prove it.

[Aranfein]

Hasnt this gone far enough yet? what happened to the CF deal that was "in place" and only needed prot's confirmation?

Again seeing everyone seems to ignore this question, did BB promise Pandas a chance for the crown if they helped out in the awar? - Not sure why this question keeps being ignored when it has a huge impact on crown race, I know cJs kingdom seems to have agreed on a notice things etc. but out of curiousity i wouldnt mind knowing this, because if BB are to enforce such things for alliance mates (friends), then thats as bad as Emeriti asking Bour to raze in to hinder opponents... Because essential thats what BB (if this is the case) are doing themselves.

[citadela01]

Helping BB deal break and wave into active war is not acting defensively. That's just silly to even claim that. Also, Francis (is that you?) did deny being friendly with BB when I talked to him and pointed out how he will rob BB same as anyone else to try and prove it.

My deffensive coment was referring to us initially only acting against your satellite KD's and not you. Obviously we soon got involved to full extent.

Francis's forum nick is Lord Sampuan, so no its not him. I consider BB friendly KD even if we aren't bff's and I dont know in which context would he denied that, youd have to ask him that.

I will say its true we steal from BB just like from anyone else, main difference beeing BB can get CF from us easily and for free once they tag up I guess, others typically have to sacrifice certain amount of gold for it.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Emeriti never asked Bour to raze to hinder any opponents. jdorje advised bour that he could threaten to raze to get a cf. Bour asked for a cf first and when his messages were ready but not replied to, he then razed and offered all land plus extra back for a cf right from the start. BB refused and he then also offered free gc and even a fake hostile to help BB vs emeriti. This is the #1 province trying to get a cf for himself and now what you do to try and hinder opponents.