That could be correct, but is not what you said and what I lol-ed @
That could be correct, but is not what you said and what I lol-ed @
Iīm actually surprised there is so few Elf/Rogues. If you look in its numbers it has everything covered to make a decent hybride attacker. For example Faery has no real advantage to op it when decently pumped. Magic and thievery defense are both covered. Compared to Halfling/Rogue it seems a way better combo and has less weaknesses. Wars are about staying UB. Elf/Rogue can do much better than Dwarf and Halfling and same time contribute with thievery and Magic ops. Attack low def NM target or wait until it is safe.Originally Posted by noobium
Last edited by Suur; 02-09-2015 at 02:22.
Elf/Rogue does everything you need a ghetto t/m to do - it ops, it nightmares, it defends, it grabs, and it has a cheapass defensive army (and that army doesn't die in droves when someone landgrabs or learn attacks). Biggest problem is that good Halfer/rogues can tear through them like butter if the halfers aren't accounted for.
Elf would be a lot more consistent, and if I only have a few t/m slots in ghettoland, it's prob something like 2 elf/rogue and 2 elf/mystic, rest attackers of various stripes.
I wouldn't view Elf/Rogue as a "hybrid", but they are better at hitting stuff than Faeries. You can set them up with good epa, but it's not like Elf/Mystic where the wpa bonus can compensate for bloat or slight AW. If other rogues aren't a problem and attackers aren't a problem, then the Elf/Rogue can hit away...
Last edited by noobium; 02-09-2015 at 03:09.
I was seriously considering it.
What worried me though was the NW of the Dwarf leets.
I actually decided both are viable A/T options with Dwarf the better Attacker and Halfers obviously the better Thief so depends which you want to focus on.
I worry about Halfers vulnerability to getting chained though...
I agree about Halfling Rogue being probably the biggest threat, but I cannot see them very succesfully breaking through 6+ rtpa comined with TD and can always add some WT when think it is worth. I did play Halfling Rogue last age myself.
With the 50% TPA bonus, a halfling will most certainly be able to achieve complete thievery superiority over an elf rogue. You will see many crappy halfling rogues that can't consistently op you, but any reasonably skilled halfling rogue will slice through another non-halfling rogue without any trouble.
That's why I said you'd have to account for Halfers, somehow. That probably won't mean matching Halfer TPA, but smashing the Halfers with your attackers before they can really AW or Prop.
Andurilas, Iīm not sure about that, you could be right but could not be. What experiences you have as Halfling/Rogue? I did not face any other Rogue with over half my raw tpa, so I cannot tell.
But trying to AW someone with nearly equal tpa does not make sense to me already because AW is such a weak op to do and waste of stealth and time considering Elf/Rogue can start attacking when dismantled TM wise. It is not over for him and playing UB is not itīs only option, but it can stay UB when need to even if you are correct - by adding WT in build when there is a serious threat in enemy KD.
Iīm not talking about Elf/Rogue as a pure UB TM. There will be others too. But as an option to be one. When the war starts and attackers start taking down eachotherīs TMs then you will always end up having them more up because of those Elves. Later on when attackers are running out of offense they can join in tapping NM target.
Last edited by Suur; 02-09-2015 at 04:57.
Dwarf rogue is just a silly idea but why not. Go for it and have a good time lol
Only way Dwarf rogue would be a fail is if you don't know how to play Dwarf. Dwarf/rogue is much better at A/T than Halfer. They can easily max TDs where a halfer can't even max them as soon as their BE drops below 100. Dwarves can also use hosps (at +30% BE). They have a better army (6vs5 + TG difference). The pop difference can be made up with 25% hosps. What most people fail to realize is that 75% land with the BE and pop bump of 25% homes gives virtually the same effect as 100% land with no homes for a Dwarf. here's an example
Dwarf with no homes and 8ppa gets a BE of 96.1 making 20% TDs +72% TPA. A Dwarf with 25% homes and 10.5 ppa gets a BE of 119.5 making 15% TDs +75% TPA. Sure, you will draft that extra 2.5 peons, but your BE will still be 10% better because of 25% less jobs and your army will be 2.5/acre bigger. No matter how you look at it, homes are huge for Dwarves. More so than other races. Halfers don't get their +10% pop bonus on the home bonus so homes hold 37.5 not 38.5.
While the Dwarf will never match the Halfer in TPA, the max TDs and their superior ability to pump science will close that +50% gap considerably.
For the morons who play Dwarf with no homes and use the BE bonus as an excuse to overdraft yourself into oblivion, a Dwarf with no homes and 4 ppa gets 80 BE for 57.5% TDs(20%). With 25% homes and 6.5 ppa, you get 99 BE for 62.37% TDs (15%) and +62.5% income from pezzies. Your banks are almost useless while I don't need any and still have a better economy and better thieves. Play it like a thug if you want to.
No, just no...
Seriously, you pick Rogue for AW/Prop/GA, which is going to require buff TPA. No way to play a Dwarf and do that without sacrificing something, and even if you make the sacrifices, you lack any strong racial bonus for thievery.
Nothing wrong with running high TPA on a Dwarf sometimes, but you don't want to be locked into that strategy. It's too easy to pick apart... or just ignore, because it won't be particularly effective in the long term.
Last edited by noobium; 02-09-2015 at 09:02.
Actually, if I was going to play A/T, I'd pick Dwarf rogue because I can max TDs easily, +1 stealth and +75% thievery science. If I want to do AW/Prop/GA, I would play Halfer rogue T/M. No matter what you play there is a sacrifice. In the case of Dwarf A/T it would be offense. That's OK though since max TDs only take up 15% land, there is still enough room for TGs or hosps. Dwarf with 4 tpa raw, max TDs and 100 bpa thievery science makes over 14 mod tpa. More than enough for attackers. Halfer A/T is a dud with no hosps and if you go cleric, you TDs will suck so bad as will science. Dwarf rogue would quickly pass Halfer non-rogue for TPA.
Once chained u wont be able to use personality like other attacker personas which are still beneficial (tact , war, cleric) after desertions.
And dwarves/rogue should be ready to be chained with hybrid off/def before it can utilize thieves.
If halfer can go ub, they can get aided and train off specs + with agg. soldiers they can bottomfeed or be slayers.
No attacker can go UB unless they are just too big. With people regularly sporting 100+ opa, that's just not going to happen. I don't get many desertions because I am active and know how to mitigate them. Tact and cleric bonus costs me 10% land each, warrior costs 14%. I can run with all those with 15% TDs and still have 51% land for Homes, farms, guilds and towers.
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