The U (#4) v/s Settlers (#5)

[Persain]

Meter is irrelevant, they weren't fighting back in any way and there was no button present. No ops afaik, no cow plan, no hit plan, etc.

The posts from asf make this clear - you can't just wave ghettos indefinitely and be protected.

fair enough, i always thought that if the ghetto you were waving was fighting back it was still considered a real hostile since auto declare can happen
i.e. it just seems like if they are "now" in an active hostile that would have started from the same time the first hits began, not when a kd started retaling. Otherwise next time u have an "arranged" top war starting jan 5, and our cf ends jan 8 all i have to do is ask the kd your waving to hold of hitting for 3 hours, I then notice you, let them start hiting/war and i get to wave you the second you exit eowcf instead of needing to hold my notice till then. Note: im NOT saying thats whats going on here but it seems like its a bad precedent to set.

[Zauper]

Persain- the precedent was already set for that play by Proteus.

Somehow most of the top managed to avoid doing it, or putting themselves in the situation emeriti has placed themselves here. Why do you think that is?

It's because they understand what's going on and communicate to solve problems. When they realized the conflict was lost, rather than trying to escape via settlers, the normal response is to give cf for land...then look for gains opportunities to get caught back up. 12k acres - what our initial ask would have been - doesn't set them back far. Then they can train up and push settlers if they want without this ticking clock.

But the story would have been much clearer, rather than changing every day as we learn more. Like the difference between they wouldn't cf and they wouldn't give acres.

[Persain]

Persain- the precedent was already set for that play by Proteus.

Somehow most of the top managed to avoid doing it, or putting themselves in the situation emeriti has placed themselves here. Why do you think that is?

It's because they understand what's going on and communicate to solve problems. When they realized the conflict was lost, rather than trying to escape via settlers, the normal response is to give cf for land...then look for gains opportunities to get caught back up. 12k acres - what our initial ask would have been - doesn't set them back far. Then they can train up and push settlers if they want without this ticking clock.

But the story would have been much clearer, rather than changing every day as we learn more. Like the difference between they wouldn't cf and they wouldn't give acres.

Look im not saying this doesn't look like an obvious dodge/last ditch maneuver/desperate attempt to not lose the age. All im saying is that it seems like the way the hits/notice plays out encourages a real coordinated 2v1-ish NEXT time to really mess with someone. And from my memory no kds have really done what im saying (even Proteus) with real coordination since in the past ABS would either hide it better or threaten to GB down anyone who tried to pull it on them.

From what i recall the past most kds just waited out what is now a real hostile to re-give notice. I remember in one of the past 3-4 ages pyro had a 3+week hostile as they ground down someone (stoners?) and everyone just let them be untill stoners finally gave a cf even though stoners had stoped hiting after week 2. Simians used to do this kind of thing (while i dont wanna divert the thread).....they'd say !@#$@# you if my notice isnt valid then i'll give it later and just make you PAY for being a dick.

Again not saying they have a right to endlessly dodge using ghettos but it seems strange that THESE events go Emeriti waves, CR notice give, Settlers start hitting...hostile becomes real. Real hostile commences till settlers either "give up" (the sanc-ama-mercy example) or agree to a cf and CR gets to start hitting instantly.

[bombdigie]

Ah, here comes the Emeriti spin.

I love it, wasn't Zauper in Emeriti last age?

[bombdigie]

I'm pretty sure Emeriti sends Mithras to do diplo when they're not really interested in getting anything accomplished and just want to stall you.

Yes, this is accurate.

[Palem]

I don't understand why BB isn't in here explaining why it's lame that CR isn't offering to CF Emeriti for free...

[bombdigie]

I don't understand why BB isn't in here explaining why it's lame that CR isn't offering to CF Emeriti for free...

I don't understand why you choose sides.

[StratOcastle]

I don't understand why BB isn't in here explaining why it's lame that CR isn't offering to CF Emeriti for free...

Protector is probably just being politically correct by fighting floggers battles ;-) can you imagine how irritating that can be?
I'm sure he's built for it tho. I'm a fan.

PS. A diplo vacuum in this instance would be everybody in this conflict doing exactly what they intended to: Cello hits Emeriti, Emeriti hits Settlers, Settlers hit The U. Anyone else who sees blush in the water play their hand.

I'm not advocating a freak out, just a limited riot in the top 5.

[makeo]

I don't understand why the TFC reunion is being held in this thread at 00:19. :(

Off Topic: I see the lawyers are on the case. Can someone tell me if I need to brush up on The Absalometric Book of Law chapter "The Pincer" or the Absalometric Guide to Military Field Tactics. Ta!

[Palem]

I don't understand why you choose sides.

I haven't. I think I've said 2 things in this thread. The first was an obvious response as to why Emeriti wouldn't exactly be mr. nice guy doing diplo with BB. The second was poking fun at the scenario I commented on previously.

But yea, go ahead and keep assuming stuff lol

[Loons]

So much testosterone drama!!!! I mean, I'm a chick and argue with u guys all the time in game due to my estrogen 'issues'. I guess its in my 'nature' if you wish.

But for real... you guys 'argue' still over **** that happened years or even a decade ago and bring that with you to current date.

I appreciate your commitment to the game, but I have to say I sit back and I see high school trolling and a whole lot of wasted RL time from u guys with these pointless 'discussions as to who did what and didnt do what'

[Loons]

And with that said, I just wasted 5 mins out of my life to post ^^^^

[Chrystal Palace]

CR was in a strong position to bully us, not because of gc prep (ours was fine) but because they were 20% larger. Same as they have bullied every kingdom for acres all age, but of course since they see us as the competition they would want 18k acres instead of 5k.

However, this has nothing to do with what went down / is going down between us and Settlers. Snowballz dodged our cf talks for days until the point we were fully convinced we were hours from being waved. At this point we simply trained up and waved him.

CR had many ways to profit from this situation without resorting to dirty play. You could have told Settlers to CF us. You could have waited and vultured us after the fight, same as you have done with every other top-20 war this age. Either way would have put you in exactly the position you seem to want.

Instead you told Settlers to ignore us, knowing that we couldn't ignore them back and would be forced to train early. You told them to retal and soften us up after you noticed us into the hostile. And presumably you will tell them to hold hits so that you can double-team us later. You've bragged about how many top leaders you have, but the sloppiness of this double-team makes me question that.

Finally, for the last time, I had nothing to do with the the practice of double-teaming a kingdom by offering in-game ceasefire. Go do research before you completely change history. The time we waved BB this age was a few hours after they did a few hits on a kingdom we were already hitting...should we have kept hitting that kingdom and double-teamed them? The time we waved CP they agreed to war us, but calle didn't want that war so he suicided into ED to try to get a dodge war...after CP spent all day not-very-active in diplomacy, we waved them on the hour they had asked us to wave them and gave them a long ceasefire for a single ~4800 acre wave.

Wtf are you smoking? I sent Kremlin and Erv to diplo with you guys as soon as we started hitting and asked for a little more time because they wrecked my prov with ops. That was 48 hours before you hit. You mysteriously went idle as did all your leaders. Then 24 hours before you were to give us a button I tried. To be honest I sent Erv and Kremlin to diplo you guys because I feel disgusted after talking to you people. We didn't want to dodge war which I told you numerous times before you hit us. I asked for more time. You clearly took our Intel and knew we were wrecked. So you decided to get free acres instead of a war. So don't even bring me into your bull**** play. You hit into our hostile when we showed you clear proof it was a legit hostile. You ruined our war with settlers who clearly served us notice and had no plans on even bothering you. You keep **** playing and II stupidly stick up for you people when you got gangbanged.

[Meep]

I don't understand why BB isn't in here explaining why it's lame that CR isn't offering to CF Emeriti for free...

This thread is about The U vs. Settlers, get back on topic Palem

[asdfghy]

I gave applause to zauper for digging up ancient logs and educating us in the history of Utopia. One question that remains unanswered in my mind is why CR is so intend on backing up Settlers 1. the claim is that you guys are not allies.
2. emeriti was horribly prepped and not ready to war you

If those claims are true, then to my less than superstar mind, Emeriti training up, waving settlers for land (and would only cf for more land but would still give CR the time to serve notice w/o this noticing into "hostile" business.), would give CR an even bigger advantage. Those land would not be able to be drafted/trained in time at the expiration of notice. So essentially more land for CR and bigger WW bonus. But instead the move was for Settlers to hit 6 points at Emeriti, wait for turn of the month to drop into 4 points, serve notice, 1 tick later Settlers full wave in. The above claims sound fishy...

@Emeriti, since you are losing the debate until Persain raised legit concerns for precedents that this is setting up..I wont poke holes for now.

Please fine tune the propaganda machine and ready for another round. When in doubt, ask bombidiji. He at least spinned his bs with humor.

Thank you very much. Continue on gents.