The bottom is hot

[StratOcastle]

Bart, you're a plopkoekhond! :D

I call people that all the time. At least the age is ending in a nice way; reminds me of the Mary Tyler Moore theme.

@cJ. Aces is obligated to pull the line, but you know that. First rule of diplo is: U R never wrong.

[protector]

My complaint has been the same this whole time. The top kds ban together to shove out smaller kds just because they can. They get good players to quit and then go on a fourm crusade. My complaint is that this happens all the time and it is why the top is and will awlays be the top and why everyone else is just at the bottom. This is not the first time a deal has been broken and both sides said they were right... Deals are broken every age. Regardless the kd regardless the person or people involved it ALWAYS happens. The justification for this gb is bascially. "Only spartans have played dirty in the past so they must be eliminated". This is crap. You cant tell me no kd has ever db. Bunch of self righteous white knights is my complaint, hopping on to the band wagon to gain favor from the big kds so they dont get farmed out.

Stop living in a dreamworld were you believe the top resolves only around getting good players to quit. That's such bull****.

Spartans made a dumb move, I told bart/heaven he should suck it up and admit his error and make it right but instead of doing the right thing he does more weird stuff.

[jo.t.reid]

hes still making empty threats. and hanging to

You should know Bart... he doesn't make empty threats, Persain.

[Goodwitch]

k someone go check Bart's pulse I think he is running a fever, boy is delusional lol
I could maybe see him making this statement because we are after all a ghetto:

<Heaven> we'd love to steamroll your ghetto
<Heaven> I just wonder whteher we need 4 or 5 days to put you on 50%

though I kinda doubt that would happen quite like that.
But he also considers divinity...well read for yourself how he is making friends now

<Heaven> I'm nice to any ghetto that needs a CF
<Heaven> I gave divinity a free CF again this age

illusions of grandeur

and since I broke down and posted here that little tidbit from the other day:

<Heaven> about the FW. noone wanted to war us. I knew dicks would rape us
<Heaven> but I figured if we get a loss on our record it'd be easier to get more wars

now mind you I never asked for him to share information with me, as a matter of fact I have made it very clear what I think of him in each conversation he initiated.

[Meep]

k someone go check Bart's pulse I think he is running a fever, boy is delusional lol
I could maybe see him making this statement because we are after all a ghetto:

<Heaven> we'd love to steamroll your ghetto
<Heaven> I just wonder whteher we need 4 or 5 days to put you on 50%

though I kinda doubt that would happen quite like that.
But he also considers divinity...well read for yourself how he is making friends now

<Heaven> I'm nice to any ghetto that needs a CF
<Heaven> I gave divinity a free CF again this age

illusions of grandeur

and since I broke down and posted here that little tidbit from the other day:

<Heaven> about the FW. noone wanted to war us. I knew dicks would rape us
<Heaven> but I figured if we get a loss on our record it'd be easier to get more wars

now mind you I never asked for him to share information with me, as a matter of fact I have made it very clear what I think of him in each conversation he initiated.

I never gave Spartans a free CF, because I knew more likely than not we'd get to take their science multiple times per age and they'd back down every time unless it was a guaranteed war win for them.

And my KD wasn't even good.

[Goodwitch]

like I said lol illusion of grandeur. Apparently he thinks he rules the world of utopia and we should just all give him whatever he wants so we can live :P

[markers]

Hmm emeriti vs spartans next age b2b2b2b2b

[beans]

Yall keep claiming that sparta is delusional because we refuse to back down. We aint delusional, we know that letting Dicks think that their was an EOA CF despite the missed dead line was a ****ty thing to do. The only difference between our haters and us is that we can see the double standards and hypocrisy here. It's amazing how many white knights are in here banging the war drums for GB and OOW hits on sparta. They must be playing on a different server because the UTO server I play on KDs are not required to spell out to their enemies if they miss deadlines or honour what the enemy thought was the deal... KDs are only expected to honour the letter of of agreements made. As pointed out already in here sparta gets blamed for "doing" things if we offer/threaten to do them but emerati can tell us they are going to wave us and we still get the blame for the broken CF? Sparta has to get air tight diplo to keep from getting waved but when dealing with others we have to honour intent and the spirit of agreements? F that.

Should we have fixed diplo with dynasty and waited till next age for revenge? yes, in my opinion. Is not fixing diplo a deal break? No, in my opinion. Even if yall judge that it is a deal break we are not honour bound to see things your way. We gave a clear deadline and it wasnt met, even if you dont think that counts we do and we only broke "the deal" because we thought there wasnt one. Any one who expects sparta to issue apologies or offer reparations is kidding themselves. We made a mistake by jumping the gun on getting revenge and got GB and OOW hits in return. We aint gonna cry about it and certainly the people GBing and OOW hitting us shouldn't cry about how they were wronged. GG to the white knights demanding that sparta make amends while we are eating hits from 4 kds OOW, your sense of honour and fair play is an example to us all. Because the clarity of whether the break with divinity is in question (to us, any one who says that 8>7 doesnt matter at all can suck it) we don't blame emerati much for the threat to DB and wave us. If they viewed what we did as DB then they were justified in their minds. However the OOW hits are another issue, one that we will not forget.

And for those curious to know, we have learned A lesson if not the lesson you all think we should. We are now including in all diplo that all the terms of a deal must be met or the deal is void and must be renegotiated... which is redundant in normal contracts but we are putting it in for UTO.

[markers]

@beans - welcome to the war tier or sub 100k kd acres. Seriously though best thing to do is ignore forums. Whether you guys did or didn't. It all goes away eventually. War emeriti next age get it over with then move on

[beans]

@beans - welcome to the war tier or sub 100k kd acres. Seriously though best thing to do is ignore forums. Whether you guys did or didn't. It all goes away eventually. War emeriti next age get it over with then move on

good advice. I followed it up till ppl started bashing my kd in here, figured I should post our side if the story. not sure if it was worth the trouble though.

[Korp]

Will Sparta stop try to cheat as well?

[StratOcastle]

good advice. I followed it up till ppl started bashing my kd in here, figured I should post our side if the story. not sure if it was worth the trouble though.

It's not the whole world. The forums can make it seem like thousands of players hate you. In some cases there are guys that buy into everything factually and not insinuated. It's a personality thing: in D&D you have lawful, chaotic and neutral. I'm neutral as I'll abide reasonable diplo and will shun unreasonable.

Deals are based almost completely in perceived strength here in Utopia. In other words, if said kingdom makes a deal they do so knowing they have allies. Perhaps the other kingdom is unaware of allies backing their ends. This is why I function on an open CF basis. If you think you can do it you'll do it anyway.

Persain and Emeriti leadership are very intelligent. It may have occurred to them that the diplo had holes. You're dealing with kingdoms that are deep in several aspects of the game.

This doesn't make you wrong in my eyes. I'm simply aware of the parties we shouldn't arrange complex ceasefires.

[beans]

Will Sparta stop try to cheat as well?

You mean offer to WD min time if a kd will war us? I don't know, I stay out of diplo as much as possible (logs posted here is all I know about it) but I will certainly push for no pre arranged WD. To me the ideal war is one where only agreements between the kds are about the maximum acreage of the kds and the time when the hostile/declare happens. However having been a monarch (long as time ago tbh) I know that it is fing impossible to find more then a couple wars an age that way. Everybody wants concessions to war, and the more WW a kd has the more concessions have to be given. Would I have given a WD offer to get a war? No. But if my monarch did I understand why. Ya'll act like this is all so black and white when its not. **** is ugly in the war tier/ghetto and **** is ugly in the top. Spartan's have to operate in both worlds, we need to be able to deal in the ghetto/war tier and get wars and we need to be able to deal with the top if we pull in enough acres that conflict becomes possible. Did bart do it right? No, but hey at least he is fing trying instead of refusing to diplo at all like many of the ghetto/war tier do when they get big enough to interact with the top kds.

I'm not really here to defend bart's actions, he messed up (although not nearly as bad as he is getting flamed for). I'm here to defend my kd as a whole (bart some what since he is part of the kd too) BC they are good players and getting better every day, players that just want to war and don't follow any of the diplo stuff that is going on. I don't know what sparta's future diplo will look like but I do know we will be more cautious in the future. We thought we could pull the same kind of **** that gets pulled on us and we see other ppl pulling on each other, and apparently we cant. We don't have to agree with the hypocrisy to learn this.

[beans]

It's not the whole world. The forums can make it seem like thousands of players hate you. In some cases there are guys that buy into everything factually and not insinuated. It's a personality thing: in D&D you have lawful, chaotic and neutral. I'm neutral as I'll abide reasonable diplo and will shun unreasonable.

Deals are based almost completely in perceived strength here in Utopia. In other words, if said kingdom makes a deal they do so knowing they have allies. Perhaps the other kingdom is unaware of allies backing their ends. This is why I function on an open CF basis. If you think you can do it you'll do it anyway.

Persain and Emeriti leadership are very intelligent. It may have occurred to them that the diplo had holes. You're dealing with kingdoms that are deep in several aspects of the game.

This doesn't make you wrong in my eyes. I'm simply aware of the parties we shouldn't arrange complex ceasefires.

Probably the best summary I have seen so far.

If emerati and sparta hater's replaced "obvious EOA CF DB" with "we choose to see this as EOA CF DB" I wouldn't have any argument with them. The diplo had holes and Bart thought he could use that to get revenge this age, if an alliance moves against us saying the choose to see the EOA CF as binding despite the holes in it I understand that and accept that as a consequence of us overplaying our hand. However the whole white knights vs big bad bart theme is extremely irritating. Using holes in diplo to do something that your enemy didnt expect is pretty damn common in utopia, maybe not nice... but common. They had the strength to move against us and did it, the diplo was ambiguous enough that we could not enforce our view of the situation effectively with out a stronger alliance then theirs. We made both tricky moves and a tactical error and are paying for it, not going to apologize or lay down for a smear campaign though.

[Judge]

Probably the best summary I have seen so far.

If emerati and sparta hater's replaced "obvious EOA CF DB" with "we choose to see this as EOA CF DB" I wouldn't have any argument with them. The diplo had holes and Bart thought he could use that to get revenge this age, if an alliance moves against us saying the choose to see the EOA CF as binding despite the holes in it I understand that and accept that as a consequence of us overplaying our hand. However the whole white knights vs big bad bart theme is extremely irritating. Using holes in diplo to do something that your enemy didnt expect is pretty damn common in utopia, maybe not nice... but common. They had the strength to move against us and did it, the diplo was ambiguous enough that we could not enforce our view of the situation effectively with out a stronger alliance then theirs. We made both tricky moves and a tactical error and are paying for it, not going to apologize or lay down for a smear campaign though.

So you are saying that zauper(leads Cr) protector (leads bb) cp/kremlin(leads U) theone (leads crazies) are all wrong when they say you deal broke?

Only person I can say delusional is you.