Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
Aren't you trying to intimidate utopia into acting a way that falls into line with what you think is the "right" way to play? How are you any different than the "morally corrupt" top that you find to be so objectionable?

This isn't the Unites States Supreme Court. You can't cite the bill of rights for what is or is not a razable offense. There is no due-process or a presumption of innocence. You need exactly as much evidence as it take to convince you that someone is guilty. No more, no less.
Essentially this. As we've said in our IRC discussions, while I agree that FS does plenty of things that are undesirable, I'm not sure that they're the place to start, and I find that the way this entire thing has been presented -- remember, the initial reason for folks hitting FS was because they waved SS out of range -- is a terrible precedent to set for utopia. If you want to go after bullies / dick play, I'd focus on the warwin kds that stay under 25 provs to farm wars off weaker kds, and the kds who drop significant land to keep fighting weaker kds. Situations are different, but I would say that in pretty much any situation vs a kd not currently engaged, 1 wave -> CF is not 'bullying' or unfair play.

There definitely is not a right to due process or any of that stuff, and the nature of uto is such that there tend to be more folks leaking information and people wanting to protect their friends. If, for example, I had a friend in SS' council that was showing me logs of SS' council talking about organizing their declare with other kds to coordinate a GB, and that they would only max meter if they had commitments from those kds to GB FS, I wouldn't want to share that log and get my friend in trouble. If it's an ingame message to other kds (such as Ruthless messaging kds that SS is organizing the gb), that's probably less of a concern.

The other things (the situation with Iampost's kd, for example) are examples of poor play on FS's part, and may well justify them being actioned -- the issue is that they (particularly the Iampost situation) weren't brought up until AFTER the GB began -- frankly, no one had more than the thinks from him until 24-36h ago, and don't excuse the actions of folks on SS' side (acknowledging that your motives are different than Ruthless', for example - I don't particularly think you guys should have been actioned, whereas I do think that Ruthless should be).

Though frankly, at this point it seems like the solution is for the situation to just get CF'ed out.