Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

[Korp]

Sorting through all the crap, having to run waves/hits during christmas, spending time arguing on here, etc is not fun. This entire situation is NOT FUN. Hitting one of my friends is certainly not fun.

Then why did you do it?

[Zauper]

Aren't you trying to intimidate utopia into acting a way that falls into line with what you think is the "right" way to play? How are you any different than the "morally corrupt" top that you find to be so objectionable?

This isn't the Unites States Supreme Court. You can't cite the bill of rights for what is or is not a razable offense. There is no due-process or a presumption of innocence. You need exactly as much evidence as it take to convince you that someone is guilty. No more, no less.

Essentially this. As we've said in our IRC discussions, while I agree that FS does plenty of things that are undesirable, I'm not sure that they're the place to start, and I find that the way this entire thing has been presented -- remember, the initial reason for folks hitting FS was because they waved SS out of range -- is a terrible precedent to set for utopia. If you want to go after bullies / dick play, I'd focus on the warwin kds that stay under 25 provs to farm wars off weaker kds, and the kds who drop significant land to keep fighting weaker kds. Situations are different, but I would say that in pretty much any situation vs a kd not currently engaged, 1 wave -> CF is not 'bullying' or unfair play.

There definitely is not a right to due process or any of that stuff, and the nature of uto is such that there tend to be more folks leaking information and people wanting to protect their friends. If, for example, I had a friend in SS' council that was showing me logs of SS' council talking about organizing their declare with other kds to coordinate a GB, and that they would only max meter if they had commitments from those kds to GB FS, I wouldn't want to share that log and get my friend in trouble. If it's an ingame message to other kds (such as Ruthless messaging kds that SS is organizing the gb), that's probably less of a concern.

The other things (the situation with Iampost's kd, for example) are examples of poor play on FS's part, and may well justify them being actioned -- the issue is that they (particularly the Iampost situation) weren't brought up until AFTER the GB began -- frankly, no one had more than the thinks from him until 24-36h ago, and don't excuse the actions of folks on SS' side (acknowledging that your motives are different than Ruthless', for example - I don't particularly think you guys should have been actioned, whereas I do think that Ruthless should be).

Though frankly, at this point it seems like the solution is for the situation to just get CF'ed out.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Zauper this isn't Hello Kitty Online; you should know that by now or you wouldn't be at the top of the land chart.

[Goodwitch]

Aren't you trying to intimidate utopia into acting a way that falls into line with what you think is the "right" way to play? How are you any different than the "morally corrupt" top that you find to be so objectionable?


This isn't the Unites States Supreme Court. You can't cite the bill of rights for what is or is not a razable offense. There is no due-process or a presumption of innocence. You need exactly as much evidence as it take to convince you that someone is guilty. No more, no less.

is anyone feeling intimidated by me? If so, please let me know and rest assured it was not intentional. The last thing I want to do is to intimidate people.

are you sure the community really wants "raze first, ask later" kind of justice? I am fairly sure they do not. I don't even think most of the "enforcers" think or want that.

P.S. Just like most I generalize sometimes to make it easier. Not everyone in the Top or even in the Alliance agreed with the way things went. I apologize to those that did not for generalizing but listing the ones that do would be too long and listing the ones who dont also. I appreciate people that try to make the game more fun for everyone regardless of crowns and ranks. Thank you for your work.

[MyNameIsMatija]

is anyone feeling intimidated by me? If so, please let me know and rest assured it was not intentional. The last thing I want to do is to intimidate people.

are you sure the community really wants "raze first, ask later" kind of justice? I am fairly sure they do not. I don't even think most of the "enforcers" think or want that.

P.S. Just like most I generalize sometimes to make it easier. Not everyone in the Top or even in the Alliance agreed with the way things went. I apologize to those that did not for generalizing but listing the ones that do would be too long and listing the ones who dont also. I appreciate people that try to make the game more fun for everyone regardless of crowns and ranks. Thank you for your work.

Agree again! Raze first ask questions later stops here and now.

[Palem]

You started a "task force" or whatever to raze people who play in a way you don't agree with. Now I'm not saying you're right or you're wrong, but how is that any different than what everyone else already does? You're trying to force (quite literally) people into playing a certain way. Just like what you feel is being done to you, only when it's you doing it for what you feel is good, it's for the betterment of the game, but when other people do it for things they feel are for the better of the game, which happen to oppose you, they are "morally corrupt" and bullies. I'm just asking where the difference is...?


Also, I didn't say the community razes first and asks questions later. People generally look into things to make sure they aren't going to make themselves look like fools. All I'm saying is every kingdom will handle things the way they think it needs to handled, with as much evidence as they think they need.

[Goodwitch]

If you want to go after bullies / dick play, I'd focus on the warwin kds that stay under 25 provs to farm wars off weaker kds, and the kds who drop significant land to keep fighting weaker kds. Situations are different, but I would say that in pretty much any situation vs a kd not currently engaged, 1 wave -> CF is not 'bullying' or unfair play.

> Lord Wormrot the Sorcerer of Meteor to the Face (FS) said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
nope, only 25 man kds left in this target range and its a little late now to drop down to 22-23 man kds range now. we will probably have to fight a 25man kd and get dropped back to smaller range. this has been really a big blow for us.

just gonna leave this here.

Thanks though Zauper for restoring a bit of my faith in humanity.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

> Lord Wormrot the Sorcerer of Meteor to the Face (FS) said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
nope, only 25 man kds left in this target range and its a little late now to drop down to 22-23 man kds range now. we will probably have to fight a 25man kd and get dropped back to smaller range. this has been really a big blow for us.

just gonna leave this here.

Thanks though Zauper for restoring a bit of my faith in humanity.

we were 22 players and its fairly reasonable to assume we would lose against 25 player kds in our range.. we were a 22-player kd in 25-player kds range, with little to nothing to do left.. im amazed by your ability to reach conclusions while being so clueless about events/timelines.. before some 'genius' claims we were staying 22 player intentionally, go check our recruitment thread for our efforts to recruit ppl..

also, anyone is welcome to check our growth through age from target finder, and i challange anyone to find us landdropping at some point to feed on ghettos..

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

The other things (the situation with Iampost's kd, for example) are examples of poor play on FS's part, and may well justify them being actioned -- the issue is that they (particularly the Iampost situation) weren't brought up until AFTER the GB began -- frankly, no one had more than the thinks from him until 24-36h ago, and don't excuse the actions of folks on SS' side (acknowledging that your motives are different than Ruthless', for example - I don't particularly think you guys should have been actioned, whereas I do think that Ruthless should be).

we were already actioned for that event you mention, and as soon as our internal miscommunication became clear, we didnt do anything about being hit by a third kd because it was deserved and immediately moved on to apologizing for it, resolved the situation with said kds & moved on.. we didnt make a fuss about being actioned for stupidity, and instead moved on from the issue & tried to address our internal errors..

[StratOcastle]

Aren't you trying to intimidate utopia into acting a way that falls into line with what you think is the "right" way to play? How are you any different than the "morally corrupt" top that you find to be so objectionable?


This isn't the Unites States Supreme Court. You can't cite the bill of rights for what is or is not a razable offense. There is no due-process or a presumption of innocence. You need exactly as much evidence as it take to convince you that someone is guilty. No more, no less.

Different because Goodwitch is reacting to a wrong. Intimidation is the byproduct. Now you may argue with how she says what she's saying; not everyone is master of debate. The diplomatic environment is indeed weighted against her side.

Allow me to argue on a moral basis. The point being FS is part of a system of bullying. You basically believe in dog eat dog. So do I. Meaning I understand it. You've used the method of razing into war yourself so this is even ground.

Utopians would like to do their business with the understanding there is retributive balance. You left the game under the guise of not caring anymore when POINT engaged vac mode. Or whatever reason you might have. This was an injustice? You did leave the game.

What we're defending is the player base. This is what is good. This is what matters to us.

FS has in the past been a steward of the game. I'm not questioning that. What I find to be senseless is the railroading of the war tier that is essentially a separate department to where FS occupies. They are a top kingdom pretending to be a war kingdom. That they hit the ceiling is admirable, but it's time to look up instead of down. Pyro did. The U did.

Everybody starts with 400 acres, but not everyone starts with at least 75 friends in diplomatic safety to compete evenly. That these friends have depth of knowledge and cohesion widens that gap. The kingdoms in question on the receiving end have been hashing rosters together all age to get where they are.

It's one thing to objectify the game from the standpoint of everyone having the same set of rules and then understanding that in the game there are levels of competition. Look at any organized sport and the divisions are partly there to protect the integrity of the game. We as stewards of Utopia in it's shrinking player base should exercise a level of restraint regarding our fragile future.

This entire action smacks of hopelessness from our top kingdom organization. That they joke about inactivity while running extreme science doesn't get by me. If so gifted let the remaining server play. My hope lies in the nostalgic return of players from the past. We've had a few, but we need more. We need to bridge that gap, or see the game die in that mindset. Longevity is dependent on interest. You, Palem, are speaking from a non-player perspective. We need you back.

What we saw were kingdoms striving to get their rosters set, organize valid strategies and looking up. This action is straining the grid, as if they don't care if the game dies now. Unlike this action I levy mercy. But why? Wouldn't this invite softer play? This isn't about a few skilled players, we require mass in the player base. The higher the mass the higher likelihood of quality players and leaders to join the competitive field.

The ones I think about the most are The Empyreans, The Wishmasters, The Nobles, The Core, Metallic Symphony, Plaidovia and on and on. They are at peace in this game and we owe it to them to keep it going.

[citadela01]

Who decides who the police is? Who decides what the community doesn't like?

You can't convict someone without looking at evidence. Then carry out a sentence...and after the fact change the verdict to justify the sentence.

The proper way would be to bring up charges
check if charges are substantiated
Give the accused access to evidence and give them a chance to defend themselves
render the verdict
carry out the sentence

Its crazy how delusional and entitled you feel.
What kind of twisted mind can produce this kind of post AFTER you failed to exercise the same to us first ? How can you not see the irony in this ??

Your side took it upon yourself to group and organize 4v1 GB under the table, into the war, breaking EOACF deal along the way.
DO you not see how insane your complaints are when others did the same to you ?

[protector]

I see while I was sleeping the alliance made more friends...

how many players have you caused to quit the game today?

Congratulations BB, FS, Pyro and CR(never thought I would have to add you guys to this list) well played.

Every single post and in game action has done nothing but prove that you have no interest in fairness. Apparently you are all on a power trip to feed your egos. well merry Christmas. Instead of Admiration for your achievements you have now earned disgust for your actions from the community of Utopia.

And thanks devs for enabling these morally corrupt players.

p.s. I do not blame the players in above list of kingdoms. They are following orders of their monarchs what is totally understandable(within reason)

I lol'd

[protector]

not at all. It's no secret who sent the banner, it shows in their news. I think Ascension should take the honor crown actually. But what the banner does show is that no one ever really had a shot at the crown other than FS. It was decided at the beginning of the age, maybe even before then. Clearly proven by the actions of their "friends". Makes that crown a truly honorable achievement...not.

Kiss up enough and some day it may be your turn to crown :) I can give you a map of where to start.

And then I lol'd some more

[Goodwitch]

You started a "task force" or whatever to raze people who play in a way you don't agree with. Now I'm not saying you're right or you're wrong, but how is that any different than what everyone else already does? You're trying to force (quite literally) people into playing a certain way. Just like what you feel is being done to you, only when it's you doing it for what you feel is good, it's for the betterment of the game, but when other people do it for things they feel are for the better of the game, which happen to oppose you, they are "morally corrupt" and bullies. I'm just asking where the difference is...?


Also, I didn't say the community razes first and asks questions later. People generally look into things to make sure they aren't going to make themselves look like fools. All I'm saying is every kingdom will handle things the way they think it needs to handled, with as much evidence as they think they need.

Palem you are welcome to stop by any time. #pluribus on irc utonet. That is not at all what we are doing. As a matter of fact I was just yelled at by a monarch for "just" sending a mail instead of hitting. The mail did however end the conflict, without being threatening. And after 5 minutes of cool down the yeller, who was clearly frustrated and understandably agitated, realized that this fixed the situation for his kingdom as well as the opponent.
Essentially we are helping out smaller kingdoms that otherwise would fall through the cracks. Trying to keep it fun for those players.
How is that a bad thing exactly?

we were 22 players and its fairly reasonable to assume we would lose against 25 player kds in our range.. we were a 22-player kd in 25-player kds range, with little to nothing to do left.. im amazed by your ability to reach conclusions while being so clueless about events/timelines.. before some 'genius' claims we were staying 22 player intentionally, go check our recruitment thread for our efforts to recruit ppl..

also, anyone is welcome to check our growth through age from target finder, and i challange anyone to find us landdropping at some point to feed on ghettos..

Almost every kingdom is always recruiting. I find it hard to believe though that FS couldn't find more players. Also since you have the logs you know you first tried to convince the other monarch that you "aren't really that good". And not till after he called your bluff did you tell him that they never stood a chance in war against you, but they should war you anyway because you promised terms that would inflict less pain than the kingdom in range they wanted to war.

Very much like in our case when after I found out it was your kingdom you said things like "If I had known it was you, things would have went differently". You knew it was me, I signed my msg with my name. And another case of "oh, I am not in game monarch so I don't know". You not seeing the message is highly unlikely.

Citadela , we did none of those things you accuse us of. I tried , starting during the WSK vs SS war, to show Francis that his actions hurt the game, the player base. Several people did.

The Alliance argues they don't like what FS is doing but they have no way to police it because it isn't against the rules of the game or "the community"
I am saying if the community thinks it's wrong it should be against their rules.
How is it less bad if someone discourages lots of people to continue playing, than if someone breaks a deal with a kingdom that most likely has the fortitude to strike back another time for example? Is a crown more important than the future of Utopia?

[lampost]

we were already actioned for that event you mention, and as soon as our internal miscommunication became clear, we didnt do anything about being hit by a third kd because it was deserved and immediately moved on to apologizing for it, resolved the situation with said kds & moved on.. we didnt make a fuss about being actioned for stupidity, and instead moved on from the issue & tried to address our internal errors..

Of course you moved on. You moved on and we disbanded.

Not sure it was to do with an 'internal misscommunication' when two of the guys in your leadership (over 5 days after the war was off) gave your agreement to war kingdom 'y'. More to do with an outside kd putting a couple of hits on you and you realizing you weren't going to get away with db and waving a kd 1mill smaller than you (6 weeks into age) into their hostile. Additionally, I wouldn't call what happened to you 'action-ed'.