Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

[protector]

i am currently trying to help a kingdom being raze killed by another kingdom for no reason. It's a small kingdom so the top won't care about it.

You do realize it was YOUR side that pulled the trigger with razes, right?

[Palem]

Utopians would like to do their business with the understanding there is retributive balance. You left the game under the guise of not caring anymore when POINT engaged vac mode. Or whatever reason you might have. This was an injustice? You did leave the game.

I left because I was no longer having fun. I would never actively turn people away from the game, but if you aren't getting any joy from playing a game, you shouldn't play it. Simple as that. As I explained in the thread, there wasn't anything that "happened" and I absolutely considered POINT jumping into VM as a victory. We beat him, so he had to hide.

FS has in the past been a steward of the game. I'm not questioning that. What I find to be senseless is the railroading of the war tier that is essentially a separate department to where FS occupies. They are a top kingdom pretending to be a war kingdom. That they hit the ceiling is admirable, but it's time to look up instead of down. Pyro did. The U did.

Pyro and the U wanted to try their hand at whoring. If FS wants to be the biggest, baddest, warringest kingdom the game's ever seen, that's their choice. You don't get to dictate the goals of other kingdoms.

Everybody starts with 400 acres, but not everyone starts with at least 75 friends in diplomatic safety to compete evenly. That these friends have depth of knowledge and cohesion widens that gap. The kingdoms in question on the receiving end have been hashing rosters together all age to get where they are.

That's part of the game though, building your kingdom up. It's not just roster management. It's making friends and enemies. It's making it known what you will and won't stand for and then (hopefully) sticking by that. It's getting better at diplo and making connections with other kingdoms.

What we saw were kingdoms striving to get their rosters set, organize valid strategies and looking up. This action is straining the grid, as if they don't care if the game dies now. Unlike this action I levy mercy. But why? Wouldn't this invite softer play? This isn't about a few skilled players, we require mass in the player base. The higher the mass the higher likelihood of quality players and leaders to join the competitive field.

I agree. Game needs players and we especially need to retain the players we already have. What I don't agree with is that Goodwitch and her task force will cause less people to quit than the way it kingdoms are already actioned. How is Goodwitch razing people somehow better for the playerbase than Zauper razing people?

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Palem you are welcome to stop by any time. #pluribus on irc utonet. That is not at all what we are doing. As a matter of fact I was just yelled at by a monarch for "just" sending a mail instead of hitting. The mail did however end the conflict, without being threatening. And after 5 minutes of cool down the yeller, who was clearly frustrated and understandably agitated, realized that this fixed the situation for his kingdom as well as the opponent.
Essentially we are helping out smaller kingdoms that otherwise would fall through the cracks. Trying to keep it fun for those players.
How is that a bad thing exactly?



Almost every kingdom is always recruiting. I find it hard to believe though that FS couldn't find more players. Also since you have the logs you know you first tried to convince the other monarch that you "aren't really that good". And not till after he called your bluff did you tell him that they never stood a chance in war against you, but they should war you anyway because you promised terms that would inflict less pain than the kingdom in range they wanted to war.

Very much like in our case when after I found out it was your kingdom you said things like "If I had known it was you, things would have went differently". You knew it was me, I signed my msg with my name. And another case of "oh, I am not in game monarch so I don't know". You not seeing the message is highly unlikely.

Citadela , we did none of those things you accuse us of. I tried , starting during the WSK vs SS war, to show Francis that his actions hurt the game, the player base. Several people did.

The Alliance argues they don't like what FS is doing but they have no way to police it because it isn't against the rules of the game or "the community"
I am saying if the community thinks it's wrong it should be against their rules.
How is it less bad if someone discourages lots of people to continue playing, than if someone breaks a deal with a kingdom that most likely has the fortitude to strike back another time for example? Is a crown more important than the future of Utopia?

if ppl quit because they get hit, they shouldnt have started playing this game at all.. getting hit is just as part of the game as hitting others, but i can understand that its much easier to try to change the rules, than craft strategies and navigating through charts/wars better.. i highly advise smaller kds who listen to those bs about 'bullies' and 'fairness', to understand this is a strategy and war game & there are dozens of ways to fight off bigger kds without resorting to foul play such us hitting into wars.. just explore the mechanics and learn how they work day by day, and you will get the real satisfaction from the game when you find your way to success through those explorations..

[Palem]

Palem you are welcome to stop by any time. #pluribus on irc utonet. That is not at all what we are doing. As a matter of fact I was just yelled at by a monarch for "just" sending a mail instead of hitting. The mail did however end the conflict, without being threatening. And after 5 minutes of cool down the yeller, who was clearly frustrated and understandably agitated, realized that this fixed the situation for his kingdom as well as the opponent.
Essentially we are helping out smaller kingdoms that otherwise would fall through the cracks. Trying to keep it fun for those players.
How is that a bad thing exactly?

Don't get the wrong idea. I have no problem with what you're doing. I didn't particularly have a problem with you razing FS. What I have a problem with is your justifications and your attitude towards other players. You (as far as I've seen) approach things from a very "They are evil and we are righteous" mentality. If this would have been the conversation:

"Why are you razing FS?"
"Because they are dicks and we're not going to let them crown."
"Did you break any deals?"
"One kingdom wanted to, but we talked them out of it."

You wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. If you want to form an alliance to root out ****play, by all means go ahead. If you want to start an alliance for the sole effort of raze-killing FS and keeping them on 22-25 green provinces until they disband (not saying that's what you're doing), by all means, go right ahead. If you're not breaking any rules, you're free to play however you want, but every action has consequences. That's why Utopia is awesome.

[Korp]

if ppl quit because they get hit, they shouldnt have started playing this game at all.. getting hit is just as part of the game as hitting others, but i can understand that its much easier to try to change the rules, than craft strategies and navigating through charts/wars better.. i highly advise smaller kds who listen to those bs about 'bullies' and 'fairness', to understand this is a strategy and war game & there are dozens of ways to fight off bigger kds without resorting to foul play such us hitting into wars.. just explore the mechanics and learn how they work day by day, and you will get the real satisfaction from the game when you find your way to success through those explorations..

Is not the getting hit part, is probably the excessive getting hit part. You should see the distinction its quite obvious. Its rich that you talk about explore the mechanics and learn how they work when you were faced with a overwhelming enemy last age you resorted calling in friends to wave that kingdom instead. :)

[Pale]

Is not the getting hit part, is probably the excessive getting hit part. You should see the distinction its quite obvious. Its rich that you talk about explore the mechanics and learn how they work when you were faced with a overwhelming enemy last age you resorted calling in friends to wave that kingdom instead. :)

The initial reaction they had to the ED situation last age was unfortunate and everyone would agree that it was not appropriate. But reparations were made to the kd wronged and in the end the kd wronged was ok with the ending. You'd only have a leg to stand on saying this kind of stuff if it had not been resolved in such a way that the kd wronged didn't get anything for it and FS was allowed to do their **** play unhindered. Obviously not the case. It was a situation where a kd wanted 3-4 waves for a cf which is well outside of the confines of normal game play. Only after learning the history between the 2 kds did the kd(s) stepping in realize they were in the wrong. Without the information it just looked bad for ED. They paid for that mistake and made reparations to ED for it. People bringing up situations where people already paid the price and resolved things diplomatically is getting pretty damn old. You have no right to complain since you were not wronged in the situation and the kd who was ended up satisfied with the resolution. It would be different if they and the kds involved on their side had gotten away with it unscathed and if the situation had not been policed.

[flogger]

Palem is the finest troll these here boards have ever seen

[Palem]

Palem is the finest troll these here boards have ever seen

[Goodwitch]

I agree. Game needs players and we especially need to retain the players we already have. What I don't agree with is that Goodwitch and her task force will cause less people to quit than the way it kingdoms are already actioned. How is Goodwitch razing people somehow better for the playerbase than Zauper razing people?

The taskforce has not and isn't planning on razing anyone. It includes players and monarchs from kingdoms such as Nobles and Dungeondwellers for example. Players that have been in the game a long time and can help others with tactics, diplomacy and strategy.
There are/were(off and on) people idling in the channel from BB, Emeriti and CR among others if you don't want to take my word for it.
The taskforce has nothing to do with this dispute.
Chose the word taskforce to avoid the word alliance as to not give the wrong impression. I see that taskforce apparently wasn't a good choice either. It's new and we'll work on it.

Just read your other post , figured no need to quote it. We(my kingdom)were not in an alliance to hit into that war. The taskforce did not raze into that war Please read Zauper's or Pale's post again. My kingdom hit FS before the war already. I still don't believe SS organized an alliance but if they did, we were not part of it.

I don't claim to be perfect. I make lots n lots of mistakes. But when I do, I admit to them. And I did.
I also apologize, and when I do I mean it. I also strive to not repeat mistakes I made.
I apologized to the community that we razed, it was wrong. We got punished and that's fine.
The reason we razed in the first place is still a valid one though.

There are other people that will twist and turn facts, intimidate people and call in favors to avoid admitting they were wrong.

The initial reaction they had to the ED situation last age was unfortunate and everyone would agree that it was not appropriate. But reparations were made to the kd wronged and in the end the kd wronged was ok with the ending. You'd only have a leg to stand on saying this kind of stuff if it had not been resolved in such a way that the kd wronged didn't get anything for it and FS was allowed to do their **** play unhindered. Obviously not the case. It was a situation where a kd wanted 3-4 waves for a cf which is well outside of the confines of normal game play. Only after learning the history between the 2 kds did the kd(s) stepping in realize they were in the wrong. Without the information it just looked bad for ED. They paid for that mistake and made reparations to ED for it. People bringing up situations where people already paid the price and resolved things diplomatically is getting pretty damn old. You have no right to complain since you were not wronged in the situation and the kd who was ended up satisfied with the resolution. It would be different if they and the kds involved on their side had gotten away with it unscathed and if the situation had not been policed.

It does however show that they didn't learn from their mistakes. They made up for it, but only because they were caught. They are still acting the same way and have for ages, they just try harder not to get caught. Unfortunately the smaller kingdoms will never get the chance to be fairly compensated. Their cases will never be heard.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

It does however show that they didn't learn from their mistakes. They made up for it, but only because they were caught. They are still acting the same way and have for ages, they just try harder not to get caught. Unfortunately the smaller kingdoms will never get the chance to be fairly compensated. Their cases will never be heard.

really? actually, we learned a lot from that incident.. after other kds reaction to what we did, we didnt talk crap for days & worked on our strat instead to be on the hunting side rather than being hunted.. i think this age is a good example about our learning curve..

[Korp]

The initial reaction they had to the ED situation last age was unfortunate and everyone would agree that it was not appropriate. But reparations were made to the kd wronged and in the end the kd wronged was ok with the ending. You'd only have a leg to stand on saying this kind of stuff if it had not been resolved in such a way that the kd wronged didn't get anything for it and FS was allowed to do their **** play unhindered. Obviously not the case. It was a situation where a kd wanted 3-4 waves for a cf which is well outside of the confines of normal game play. Only after learning the history between the 2 kds did the kd(s) stepping in realize they were in the wrong. Without the information it just looked bad for ED. They paid for that mistake and made reparations to ED for it. People bringing up situations where people already paid the price and resolved things diplomatically is getting pretty damn old. You have no right to complain since you were not wronged in the situation and the kd who was ended up satisfied with the resolution. It would be different if they and the kds involved on their side had gotten away with it unscathed and if the situation had not been policed.

But the issues is that LoRD_SaMPuaN is right now preaching something he cant do himself. Hes telling others kingdoms how to behave but when faced in a situation similiar instead of doing what hes preached he resorted unethical moves. That is the hilarious part.

[Pale]

But the issues is that LoRD_SaMPuaN is right now preaching something he cant do himself. Hes telling others kingdoms how to behave but when faced in a situation similiar instead of doing what hes preached he resorted unethical moves. That is the hilarious part.

So every time someone makes a mistake and attones for it we're gonna just ignore them when it comes to questions of ethics? Ok, that's reasonable (sarcasm). No one's history is perfect. No one's. You just like throwing stones at someone because you either don't like them and/or it supports what you're saying. They learned from that situation and moved on. Can't you?

[Korp]

So every time someone makes a mistake and attones for it we're gonna just ignore them when it comes to questions of ethics? Ok, that's reasonable (sarcasm). No one's history is perfect. No one's. You just like throwing stones at someone because you either don't like them and/or it supports what you're saying. They learned from that situation and moved on. Can't you?

Oh wait, so you claim FS didnt know what they were doing when they asked friends to wave ED? They were well aware of what they were doing. It wasnt a mistake, it was planned. Learning from that situation implies that they werent aware what they were doing was wrong.

[Pale]

Oh wait, so you claim FS didnt know what they were doing when they asked friends to wave ED? They were well aware of what they were doing. It wasnt a mistake, it was planned. Learning from that situation implies that they werent aware what they were doing was wrong.

So that's what you're reading out of it? Are you serious? I've already said FS was at fault for bringing in help when it was revenge for the preious age. It's the other kds who are at fault for stepping in in a revenge situation. So both the caller and the called were wrong. You're either the biggest troll on the planet or unable to understand english if you think FS didn't know what they were doing. They weren't accepting turnaround as fair play for the previous age and that is their mistake. Where in any of my correspondence did I clear FS of blame here? Stop trying to twist my words.

[Goodwitch]

So that's what you're reading out of it? Are you serious? I've already said FS was at fault for bringing in help when it was revenge for the preious age. It's the other kds who are at fault for stepping in in a revenge situation. So both the caller and the called were wrong. You're either the biggest troll on the planet or unable to understand english if you think FS didn't know what they were doing. They weren't accepting turnaround as fair play for the previous age and that is their mistake. Where in any of my correspondence did I clear FS of blame here? Stop trying to twist my words.

I missed that whole situation. How were the called punished then?