Suicide Squad VS FReakstyle

[lampost]

That is a terrible excuse.
Nothing FS is accused off (notice I didnt said guilty off) is even close to what was attempted against us.

Guilty fs are, its black and white. I cant say that for 'every time' but you guys sure set a precedent.

Guilty parties cried wolf and played victim card, but in the end nobody got punished more than they deserved.
Some got away very cheap even.

Whereas you didnt get punished for your past actions, specifically in the ED case, BB took the hits. So not only did you GB, another kd got punished for your gb.

And guess what, next age when someone starts some drama in forums about FS this affair will be dragged out again as example of FS's db/gb/razing ... and nobody will give a **** 4 kd's jumped on FS and attempted to gb us first.

You should realize that aside for your alliance, generally people dont care when bad things happen to people that do bad things (even within your alliance pale and others have at the very least called your leadership distasteful.) But yes I'm sure you will have your allies to bail you out. Bottom line is where one finds fs, one usually finds drama.

[jmiedema]

Please be very aware of the distinction between "allies bailing us out" and "top kingdoms who have been around a long time and have seen these discussions before and who have all agreed to take action on certain actionable offenses attacking Gangbangers and Dealbreakers"

we dont have allies, we simply have some kingdoms that know the difference between actionable and unactionable offenses.

Again if you want to make a case that something that is currently unactionable should be actionable, make your case in the forums (currently this thread and situation has not helped your case). That is the place to figure this stuff out, not arranging (or not arranging "lol") a Gangbang on a kingdom before getting input from the kingdoms who have all relentlessly discussed these very topics and situations over and over and have come up with the situations that are best for the game as actionable offenses.

[Palem]

we dont have allies

[lampost]

Please be very aware of the distinction between "allies bailing us out" and "top kingdoms who have been around a long time and have seen these discussions before and who have all agreed to take action on certain actionable offenses attacking Gangbangers and Dealbreakers"

Well I think that distinction is generally clear, I actually laughed in astonishment when you said "we dont have allies." The fact of the matter is that you guys made no secret about it and have even tagged up under the alliance tag in the past. Who do you think FS went to at the end of the last age to organise a GB ED? Your alliance. The very same alliance that were part of the earlier AWAR. So denying the existence of an alliance is denying reality in my opinion. Furthermore, You bring up gangbangers and dealbreakers. But that is precisely what your kingdom has been doing, and when found out have gotten away with it.

[citadela01]

Well I think that distinction is generally clear, I actually laughed in astonishment when you said "we dont have allies." The fact of the matter is that you guys made no secret about it and have even tagged up under the alliance tag in the past. Who do you think FS went to at the end of the last age to organise a GB ED? Your alliance. The very same alliance that were part of the earlier AWAR. So denying the existence of an alliance is denying reality in my opinion. Furthermore, You bring up gangbangers and dealbreakers. But that is precisely what your kingdom has been doing, and when found out have gotten away with it.

Worst case scenario FS was involved in double hostiling ED together with pyro.
After beeing farmed for days.
We reached diplomatic solutions and reoarations were made. Reparations ED was satisfied with.

That is lightyears away from what you describe us doing.
There was no GB, there was no dealbreak.
Not to mention huge disrepency between our actions and yours.

Its that manner of twisting facts that makes us dismiss your claims even when you have something legitimate to say.

[Nirule]

"I wonder if FS havr fought any wars in which they were 10-20% smaller in terms of NW and land before"

easy answer. yes we did. against settlers. this age. they withdrew in 48h

From my personal rating says, most top warring kds, 9 out of 10 could hv done that against settlers. No biggie seriously.

[lampost]

Worst case scenario FS was involved in double hostiling ED together with pyro.

Not the worst case scenario, its what happened. You went to several kds within your alliance to ask for help to DH another KD.

We reached diplomatic solutions and reoarations were made

You want to explain to the server how FS paid for it?

Reparations ED was satisfied with.

It seems ED did not have much of a choice and were not satisfied. I refer you to pale, Zauper and SF.

there was no dealbreak

FS leader
"Anyway, we aint exactly happy when ppl break the deal made. Still we are not going to double hostile you for sure, do not worry about it. Besides you are already 1m nw smaller..."

Meteor to the face (aka Sampuan)
"sure you can fight them, but why them and not us? i could have waved you and not back off as well and just decided to keep away out of respect instead."
Then you go DB and DH.

Not to mention huge disrepency between our actions and yours.

What on earth are you talking about?

Its that manner of twisting facts that makes us dismiss your claims even when you have something legitimate to say.

I'm interested to hear more. All I hear is your leadership treating others like ****.

[Goodwitch]

thats exactly what we have been doing, except for a single occasion which was ss & we had very good reasons for it.. you wouldve saved a hell lotta time from entire community if you came to this conclusion anywhere before post #1058..

try at least 7, and that's the only ones that came forward. What good reason could there ever be to not know when enough is enough? What it boils down to is you wanted to prevent ss to war ANYONE at ANY cost. It's not SS' fault that YOU made naps and maps and eoacfs with everyone in your range. You could have actively tried to win the honor crown and everyone would have respected you for it. Instead you chose to just run interference and prevent wars. You acted like a 5 year old kid saying"no I don't want to play with this car" and if another kid grabs it to play with it you cry bloody murder. SS didn't want to keep that car forever, they just wanted to play with it. (sorry Divinity I know you are so much more than a toy car )

As far as the no allies....I think I will have to agree with Palem

P.S. Nirule I don't think it's very nice to cut down a Kingdom in order to insult another.

[citadela01]

It seems ED did not have much of a choice and were not satisfied. I refer you to pale, Zauper and SF.

I'm interested to hear more. All I hear is your leadership treating others like ****.

Rather than trying to rince and repeat whats been pointed out allrdy 100 times, ill just point out this one falacity in your argument.

Since you refer me to Zauper (who mediated and has first hand knowledge of situation) letss see what he has to say about it shall we ?

I'll be honest and tell you that there wasn't much discussion about the question of FS vs BB giving the honor. I went to them and said 'ED wants FS to give the honor that ED lost to pyro', and flogger said 'Can we give it instead, it would be easier for everyone?' I asked tadpole/helluva (parth was offline at this point), and they said sure that works.

So I would say that ED didn't have their demands met, but also didn't really ask for me (or they themselves) to advocate hard for FS to give the honor.

This is exact twisting of facts I mentioned earlier, anyway I am done talking to you, you are not worth my time.

[Felonious]

Zauper says the gb on FS was unwarranted and actionable and I trust him 100%. That said, I am grateful that I was given a pass to not participate. I'm sure they were quite pleased with themselves after getting away with what they did to ED. But people in Utopia have long memories and, if given a choice, I will never help FS.

And btw, I was close to a lot of people in ED last age and even joined them shortly after that mess to win the honor crown for Benjamin (=D). And they most certainly were NOT happy that FS got away with it. I think it was less of an issue for Tadpole and Helluva who were mostly just focused on getting that honor crown. But they also did not play in ED the previous age when so much bad blood between the two kds was created due to the piss poor way that FS typically deals with their opponents. Parth and the core ED players were pretty disgusted by it.

[citadela01]

Zauper says the gb on FS was unwarranted and actionable and I trust him 100%. That said, I am grateful that I was given a pass to not participate. I'm sure they were quite pleased with themselves after getting away with what they did to ED. But people in Utopia have long memories and, if given a choice, I will never help FS.

And btw, I was close to a lot of people in ED last age and even joined them shortly after that mess to win the honor crown for Benjamin (=D). And they most certainly were NOT happy that FS got away with it. I think it was less of an issue for Tadpole and Helluva who were mostly just focused on getting that honor crown. But they also did not play in ED the previous age when so much bad blood between the two kds was created due to the piss poor way that FS typically deals with their opponents. Parth and the core ED players were pretty disgusted by it.

I am sure they would prefer to trash us to bits instead. But the point here is that nobody forced them into a deal they didnt wanted. Nobody twisted their arm into that, as its implied here by anti FS sentiment.
Are you seriously gona come to us now and say, hey ED playerbase wasnt happy with the deal their LS made and its your fault ?
They knocked out big competitor from the race, gained lot of honor in the process and cruised to crown from that point on.
To dig that crap up age later and say hey we were unhappy with the deal is BS.
ED named the price for beeing wronged, it was paid, dont backpaddle now.

[Felonious]

For someone who constantly accuses others of twisting words, you sure did make a pretzel out of mine.

[Goodwitch]

Zauper says the gb on FS was unwarranted and actionable and I trust him 100%. That said, I am grateful that I was given a pass to not participate. I'm sure they were quite pleased with themselves after getting away with what they did to ED. But people in Utopia have long memories and, if given a choice, I will never help FS.

And btw, I was close to a lot of people in ED last age and even joined them shortly after that mess to win the honor crown for Benjamin (=D). And they most certainly were NOT happy that FS got away with it. I think it was less of an issue for Tadpole and Helluva who were mostly just focused on getting that honor crown. But they also did not play in ED the previous age when so much bad blood between the two kds was created due to the piss poor way that FS typically deals with their opponents. Parth and the core ED players were pretty disgusted by it.

I agree that we(my kingdom) should not have hit into the war, we should have waited till EOA and run a max honor wave on FS instead. That would have been a smarter means of getting our point across. And I reckon the other kingdoms that hit into the war should have chosen the same course of action.
What I don't agree with is the way actioning was implemented.
Before anyone was even accused razes started against SS.
Only after I pointed out that SS did not ask us to hit did we receive hits.
Then after a bunch of razes into SS already pretty much destroyed them new evidence surfaced that indicates SS organized the GB.
So what if that evidence hadn't surfaced? we say, sorry SS we made an oops, but hey we'll...yea what exactly would they have offered SS after several provinces were razed already? (note: CR had not razed at that point)
SS is told they cannot see the evidence...well isn't that handy

to sum it up...evidence of SS organizing a GB surface AFTER actioning, but SS has no access to said evidence, nor does anyone else except the actioning parties.

Meanwhile every single kingdom that did hit FS has shown their personal reasons for hitting them. None of the kingdoms usually have any dealings with each other. Most don't even have CFs with each other much less some form of pact.

I do believe there was something presented as evidence that was convincing enough for CR to join in. I just think the timing of events and circumstances give me personally reasonable doubt that whatever evidence they did present could be fake. Or at the very least taken out of context. If it was real why did it take so long to surface? Why does the person providing the evidence have a problem with SS seeing it? But mainly why is it okay to carry out action before there even IS evidence?

[citadela01]

For someone who constantly accuses others of twisting words, you sure did make a pretzel out of mine.

I did draw parallels you didnt, didnt I.
It was not my intention to put words into your mouth.
Its just that your msg about general sentiment inside ED reflects on bs statements we used BB/pyro to force ED into a deal which isnt true.
I jumped the gun, I am too tired of people flinging mud on FS so I get overly defensive.

For what its worth you have my apologies.

[lampost]

"So I would say that ED didn't have their demands met, but also didn't really ask for me (or they themselves) to advocate hard for FS to give the honor."

LOL, thanks for helping me out Citadela :) and since you are good at searching for posts, if you find pales post he pretty much says a similar thing. But I repeat. How was FS punished for the DH?

This is exact twisting of facts I mentioned earlier, anyway I am done talking to you, you are not worth my time.

Citadela, feel free to stop/continue talking to me whenever you feel comfortable. You dont get to be right avoiding points with proclamations of 'I'm done talking to you.' In my opinion you're the one thats pretty much ignored my points and have resorted to twisting other people's arguments.

FS in play power playing and ****play might work to shut people up. Not here.