Abduct attack gets NO scientists?

[Burzum]

YES, I DO expect to grab some form of a gain when using an attack that was programmed into the game. I never did learn attacks much last age, but always got solid results when I did TBH (25K minimum each time). To ask for some simple mother-****ing guidelines on this new and different form of attack isn't really much to ask for.

What I don't expect is 2 abduct attacks in a row result in 0 net scientists. This is why I took the time to register in this joke of a forum.

Remember that 1 scientist is worth a LOT more than what 5k books did in previous ages, which is most likely the max u could gain from non-sages OOP. Even 50k books is worth less than 1 scientist later in age as it used to require a lot of books to increase BE with 1% for instance. That is why you can't expect same % of gains this age. It would have been broken. The sci works different.
Personally I hope the gains are no more than 2-3%.

[gpimento]

So since getting new scientists is very unlikely (in 50 hours i got none) and since they say abduct gives nothing as there are too few scientists, is all this for nothing?
What kind of change is this that does nothing?

[Crystopher]

So since getting new scientists is very unlikely (in 50 hours i got none) and since they say abduct gives nothing as there are too few scientists, is all this for nothing?
What kind of change is this that does nothing?

It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

[MrMac]

It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

Yep, failing to abduct graduates will be much better than failing to abduct novices ;)

[Crystopher]

Yep, failing to abduct graduates will be much better than failing to abduct novices ;)

Well, if you're not doing an SoS to ensure they have enough scientists for Abduct to get you something, then you're deserve to gain nothing :)

[Azureflames]

Well, if you're not doing an SoS to ensure they have enough scientists for Abduct to get you something, then you're deserve to gain nothing :)

We don't know the gain % on abduct so it's tough to be sure if you can get one. If gains are 3%, then people need 34+ scientists at 100% nw to get one. If gains are 2% it's 50.

Also unsure exactly how orc gains and +h works. Maybe an orc with +4h could get one with an abduct right now.

[Crystopher]

We don't know the gain % on abduct so it's tough to be sure if you can get one. If gains are 3%, then people need 34+ scientists at 100% nw to get one. If gains are 2% it's 50.

Also unsure exactly how orc gains and +h works. Maybe an orc with +4h could get one with an abduct right now.

I'm sure the great minds in the community will have the gains percentage figured out soon enough.

[gpimento]

It's still way too early, why aren't people getting that?. How long did it take for provinces to build up enough sci for it to be worth learning them? Abduct gives nothing early on, but that doesn't mean it will give nothing later on. Not to mention that within a week there will be Graduate level scientists, which will make Abduct a viable option. Be patient.

As i said, almost no one get new scientists and abducting who has all scientists gives 0 scientists, so its what? next decade maybe getting 1 or 2?
And since its on number of scientists the graduation means nothing when all we get is 0...

[Persain]

Remember that 1 scientist is worth a LOT more than what 5k books did in previous ages, which is most likely the max u could gain from non-sages OOP. Even 50k books is worth less than 1 scientist later in age as it used to require a lot of books to increase BE with 1% for instance. That is why you can't expect same % of gains this age. It would have been broken. The sci works different.
Personally I hope the gains are no more than 2-3%.

5k books under the old sceince formula oop was approximately 10 bpa assuming someone grew to 500 acres.

10 bpa yielded V # of scientists equivalent

Science........% science.......Scientists Equivelence (novice)
Alchemy......4.4 .................4.4
Tools...........3.2 .................6.3
Housing.......2.1 .................6.9
Food............25.3................8.4
Military........1.6..................5.5
Thievery......19.0.................6.3
Channeling..19.0.................6.3


The ONLY reason to not learn oop in the previous ages was it was more gc effienct to plunder and buy science than it was to learn. Now with science you cant buy you still need a way to get science abduct SHOULD be that method.

Compare science now to things like wpa. Say im fighting a guy on 10 raw wpa and i have 7 raw wpa. Since i cant train more wpa in a day i massacre him to give an advantage. Realistic, simple easy. However, the current abuct is like saying massacres do no damage if the target has less than 4 raw wpa if a mystic. since 4 wpa is relatively "low" u simply arent allowed to do more damage? I have zero issues if we want to make abuct 1-2% gains so it takes 40-50 hits of learn to really strip science away, BUT i dont like the idea of zero gains for in nw hits. Simply changing round down 0 to a min gains is 1 and abduct could easily fixed.

[gpimento]

so far the gain percentage was 50% before fix and is 0% now... together with the "new scientist lotto" of 0,0001% making the new science useless.

[CannaWhoopazz]

First: Most of the people who haven't gotten a scientist yet (including myself) are in Fort, where you don't get new scientists anyway.

Second: While I actually do agree that you should probably get 1 scientist per abduct if the target has 18 (at least if he's unhit, non-sage, not in Fort) but that's not how it is. I know a lot of you guys planned on just abducting like crazy OOP to pump science for wars, but that can't happen anymore, you have to wait, start your abducting in yr 1 on guys with ~25 scientists, maybe then you'll start getting 1 per hit. Maybe you have to wait until people have 30 before it starts giving 1 (which would seem high IMO...)

[gpimento]

most of the people who haven't gotten a scientist yet (including myself) are in Fort, where you don't get new scientists anyway. While I actually do agree that you should probably get 1 scientist per abduct if the target has 18 (at least if he's unhit, non-sage, not in Fort) but that's not how it is. I know a lot of you guys planned on just abducting like crazy OOP to pump science for wars, but that can't happen anymore, you have to wait, start your abducting in yr 1 on guys with ~25 scientists, maybe then you'll start getting 1 per hit. Maybe you have to wait until people have 30 before it starts giving 1 (which would seem high IMO...)

Not really... My kd is normal stance and still we don´t get new scientists (most have/had 10%more labs). it is simply awful that sciences got destroyed that way that it cant be got by paying neither buildings neither learn/abducts... being a sage is the most stupid choice ever.

So ironic the name of the age being "The Age of Scholars and Scoundrels" when scholars mean nothing and all that have are scoundrels.

[Burzum]

5k books under the old sceince formula oop was approximately 10 bpa assuming someone grew to 500 acres.

10 bpa yielded V # of scientists equivalent

Science........% science.......Scientists Equivelence (novice)
Alchemy......4.4 .................4.4
Tools...........3.2 .................6.3
Housing.......2.1 .................6.9
Food............25.3................8.4
Military........1.6..................5.5
Thievery......19.0.................6.3
Channeling..19.0.................6.3


The ONLY reason to not learn oop in the previous ages was it was more gc effienct to plunder and buy science than it was to learn. Now with science you cant buy you still need a way to get science abduct SHOULD be that method.

Compare science now to things like wpa. Say im fighting a guy on 10 raw wpa and i have 7 raw wpa. Since i cant train more wpa in a day i massacre him to give an advantage. Realistic, simple easy. However, the current abuct is like saying massacres do no damage if the target has less than 4 raw wpa if a mystic. since 4 wpa is relatively "low" u simply arent allowed to do more damage? I have zero issues if we want to make abuct 1-2% gains so it takes 40-50 hits of learn to really strip science away, BUT i dont like the idea of zero gains for in nw hits. Simply changing round down 0 to a min gains is 1 and abduct could easily fixed.

My point was simply, 1 scientist is worth much more than a few books. If min gain is 1 it will be broken. Fast hitting attackers could max out their Sci in a matter of a few weeks. Not to mention how much weaker it would make TMs who seldom can abduct.

[Bishop]

Not really... My kd is normal stance and still we don´t get new scientists (most have/had 10%more labs). it is simply awful that sciences got destroyed that way that it cant be got by paying neither buildings neither learn/abducts... being a sage is the most stupid choice ever.

So ironic the name of the age being "The Age of Scholars and Scoundrels" when scholars mean nothing and all that have are scoundrels.

You are aware that the actual real sage bonus is the effectiveness?

[hmw_kamikaze]

Knock it off.

Uh, why don't you make me champ?

Feel free to delete my account (Profound Darkness, I plan on just deleting it tomorrow anyway.

You're a joke, along with your little game.