#1 vs#2 honor kds

[octobrev]

Remote to your home pc silly goose!

[Aelia Capitolina]

Aelia -- Yes Massa' Sorry Massa' only FS is truth Massa' -- Edit: Stop trying to make FS look like the victims here. That's just sad m8.

As expected, you have no argument.
Bottom line, instead of trying to reach a solution by having a conversation, TBB chose to lie and bad mouth FS in the forums.
Perhaps TBB feels entitled to free CF's because you have your MAP alliance backing you up and are willing to ****play any who refuses your terms.

FS is not the victim here, TBB is, of their own arrogance and entitlement.

[sarcasm]

I still like that allegations where you clown thinks TBB is capable of planting multis in kingdoms that we want to sabotage at any given time like TBB is running secret underground intelligence network and planting Death Agents across utopia for a long period of time and pull the sabotage from within when we want. I don't mind taking the title of CIA, KGB & MI6 of utopia. that's very boss and awesome.

looking forward for the next theory you guys can come up with next.

cheers.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I still like that allegations where you clown thinks TBB is capable of planting multis in kingdoms that we want to sabotage at any given time like TBB is running secret underground intelligence network and planting Death Agents across utopia for a long period of time and pull the sabotage from within when we want. I don't mind taking the title of CIA, KGB & MI6 of utopia. that's pretty boss and awesome.

looking forward for the next theory you guys come up with next.

cheers.

Meanwhile at Octoland:

[Maximo]

Just like cJ to spear lies. cJ is only friend with cJ. But you and I are loyal friends til the end.

#1 BoH fan checking in. Pls include me in Elit Loyal fan club as well. 10K for spear lies! Pew pew = smell smell!

[s7ark]

At this point it's a pretty clear grudgebang amongst kds that have no realistic shot at winning any crown at all at this point.

What crown? think FS has enough crowns under their belt to slack a few ages. Being a 'top' kd one must always pursue an objective? the way you reference 'the top' i assume you are not amongst them; so what do you do all this ages not crowning? At least their conflict, even when 'not crowning' is an amusement to some like yourself.

[Bart of Sparta]

my history is quite hazy. what were the official hostile or not rules?

1. Do you need to hit until hostile to claim hostile?
2. Does not retalling open the other KD to hits?
3. If 2, is there a need for an open cf offer?
4. How long between cf offer and last hits are necessary for a 3rd party to wave in?

Based on FS ED Pyro its 12 hours right?

[jmiedema]

Well, since FS and Pyro were actioned in that scenario (rightfully so), I would assume that 12h is not the rule haha.

Really there needs to be a summit with like the top 15 monarchs or something that can come up with some sort of document that lists stuff out such as what you mention above Bart. Like what actions are legal to do and what are frowned upon/actionable in different scenarios. It would be very difficult for a new monarch/kingdom to try and work in the top environment because of that.

I don't think it is a big conspiracy like you think, but simply there are kingdoms that choose to work together ONLY when the integrity of the game is at risk and some kingdom needs to be actioned. You like to call them an alliance, but they aren't. Same as people called Feyrplay an alliance.. and we weren't. We action people that break deals, and break the integrity of the game. We always have, and we likely won't stop.

But with all that said, I can understand that not everyone knows the history of the past 20-50 ages and knows all the different situations that are frowned upon and actionable. If people could come together to rationally discuss what is right and what is wrong (without kingdom names being involved, but simply situations, so ego's don't get in the way) then we could make good progress.

I do like to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't purposely trying to do what is deemed terrible taste in the current meta-game, but are simply uninformed until it is too late and they are actioned.

There are of course certain situations, in which the intent is purely to cheat and further themselves further in the game through shady play. And in those circumstances, those parties should be actioned. Every time.

[handofthrawn]

Well, since FS and Pyro were actioned in that scenario (rightfully so), I would assume that 12h is not the rule haha.

Really there needs to be a summit with like the top 15 monarchs or something that can come up with some sort of document that lists stuff out such as what you mention above Bart. Like what actions are legal to do and what are frowned upon/actionable in different scenarios. It would be very difficult for a new monarch/kingdom to try and work in the top environment because of that.

I don't think it is a big conspiracy like you think, but simply there are kingdoms that choose to work together ONLY when the integrity of the game is at risk and some kingdom needs to be actioned. You like to call them an alliance, but they aren't. Same as people called Feyrplay an alliance.. and we weren't. We action people that break deals, and break the integrity of the game. We always have, and we likely won't stop.

But with all that said, I can understand that not everyone knows the history of the past 20-50 ages and knows all the different situations that are frowned upon and actionable. If people could come together to rationally discuss what is right and what is wrong (without kingdom names being involved, but simply situations, so ego's don't get in the way) then we could make good progress.

I do like to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't purposely trying to do what is deemed terrible taste in the current meta-game, but are simply uninformed until it is too late and they are actioned.

There are of course certain situations, in which the intent is purely to cheat and further themselves further in the game through shady play. And in those circumstances, those parties should be actioned. Every time.

The rules are simple honestly and I think everyone understands them. Problem is you have a group of kingdoms who want to change them. Led by Spartans that want a free for all with no rules at all. Plus even if you did come up with by-laws Spartans and Co would just break them, to further their goals. Making the entire time spent coming up with them a waste of time. Hence why it will never happen.

[MyNameIsMatija]

There are of course certain situations, in which the intent is purely to cheat and further themselves further in the game through shady play. And in those circumstances, those parties should be actioned. Every time.

So, should I start listing all the times FS has done this or will do it yourself, want to split the workload perhaps? OK, bull**** aside, it comes down to what position your allies are in, nothing else, this whole "official hostile" deal is a crock of ****.
Btw a better term for "actioned" is processed.

Just because I said I'm off your case doesn't mean I'l watch this crap go on forever and without boundaries.

[Bart of Sparta]

Well, since FS and Pyro were actioned in that scenario (rightfully so), I would assume that 12h is not the rule haha.

Really there needs to be a summit with like the top 15 monarchs or something that can come up with some sort of document that lists stuff out such as what you mention above Bart. Like what actions are legal to do and what are frowned upon/actionable in different scenarios. It would be very difficult for a new monarch/kingdom to try and work in the top environment because of that.

I've proposed this various times but each time was turned down by the "powers that are". So instead of having clear rules I had to find out by myself what the rules were based on different situations. In some cases you have to follow the letter of a deal, in other cases the spirit. Sometimes unfriendly = hostile, other times unfriendly = no hostile. I learnt that it is OK to hide players in various KDs across the server and have them rob/hit/intel for you, but not to have a second KD to counter that play. The basic rule of engagement in the top is that ****play is OK as long as no one can prove it conclusively... unless... the ****playing KD isn't part of the big guys, in which case the community will be told "there is conclusive evidence that we cannot share".

[octobrev]

I can't speak for their earlier ages but in the time I've been here Sparta has been the paradigm of integrity. If we all operated a little more like them world peace would surely follow.

[jmiedema]

Bart.. do you have any actual clue how many times this "powers that be" "top" "MAP" "MAP Alliance" whatever the hell you want to call it has actioned EACH OTHER? it is not a group of people working together for their own means, but a group of people that respect the integrity of this game, and frown on upstarts that come onto the scene and decide they want to do everything their own way, and cheat and lie and dealbreak to get there.

They are a group of very individual kingdoms, that each want to do well in this game and defeat each other to do it. Case and point was 2-3 ages ago when Pyro and FS has that crazy long war, where we even said stuff to each other in forum threads. This being two kingdoms that were so called "allied" together. We brutally wanted to beat them so bad (and vice versa im sure) that we ended up ruining both of our ages. Because we all dedicate a lot of time to this game and want to play it well and at a very competitive level, but fairly. So yea, all "top" kingdoms are frustrated when kingdoms come along and ****play and cheat their way to appearing to do well. Especially when all the stuff they do is so obvious and not new.

Now you are trying to create an alliance of kingdoms to fight this group of very individual kingdoms. I'm just surprised that your own group of kingdoms doesn't see through all your **** and realize that everything you ask them to do is purely and simply to serve the purpose of furthering bart in this game. and it is their kingdoms that are going to suffer for it.

A sad day in utopia honestly.

[HerpNDerp]

As expected, you have no argument.
Bottom line, instead of trying to reach a solution by having a conversation, TBB chose to lie and bad mouth FS in the forums.
Perhaps TBB feels entitled to free CF's because you have your MAP alliance backing you up and are willing to ****play any who refuses your terms.

FS is not the victim here, TBB is, of their own arrogance and entitlement.

I'm still waiting for you to bring something to this discussion other than pure arrogance on your part. Your viewpoint is so narrow and twisted that discussing anything you've said thus far would be akin to conversing with a brick wall.

@ s7ark -- I'm not sure what you are referencing or referring to. I've been a part of a crown in the past couple of ages. And the 'top' kds are the usually suspects that end up 1-8 on land charts. They make the rules (and change them) as they see fit, and everyone else has to deal with it since no one can do anything about it. I find is amusing at the amount of hypocrisy at every corner so far with FS and CR.

[MyNameIsMatija]

OK, I'll start then, Age 66 - loiso plunders BB for 20mil which is spread to FS provs short on GC for the imminent war (hostilities literally started in a tick or two).