hi..
i like to kown what Orcīs Gains on Attacks: +50% are good for ?? its ther a cap at 120% os why 150% ??
(and yeah i am nub)
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hi..
i like to kown what Orcīs Gains on Attacks: +50% are good for ?? its ther a cap at 120% os why 150% ??
(and yeah i am nub)
Lol....that sounds dirty. "Snatch news" lol...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
About orcs - I'm in for giving them some kind of small bonus - they are very weak to ambush now, and that pretty much forces them to play warrior - It's never fun for a race to have really only one choice, especialy when orc is the only race that would really like to play tactician (the extra spec creds), so maybe give orcs immunity to ambush because it hurts them so much (opponent kill lots of their leets for a small price of their own, so it is almost worth it to ambush an orc EVEN IF he is a warrior because u get 25% land and kill some of his leets or extremely little of your own troops). And change the -50% honor for orcs to half gains and losses in honor (that way it is hard for them to get honor but they can still have the small bonuses that everyone else have)
Together with the orcs elves also need some boost, but I don’t know what - maybe ToG (they still need the runes for it so it wouldn't be such a big deal to give it to them, something to help their bad economy)
Gnomes... dont know how to make them interesting without changing a lot... maybe lower the nw of the leet even more? Scince they are no thieve race now (only intel, no damage) then they need to attack to do something, and lowering the nw of leet will make them at least extremely good from one point of view (something they lack right now - I don't count intel gathering...). Wait - they could be the new t/m race with their low nw defence and cheep thieves and the +25% spell success, they will not excell in either of thievery or magic but be decent in both...
Well, I think they really want old players to leave to make room to (very hypoteticals) new ones. The hell if I understand why they consider its impossible to make both, keep anciets, get new ones, but they got their reasons that Reason ignores, I suppose.
So without Gnomes, hard to play that games seriously, and play Gnome will be either EXTREMELY booooooooring, either painful. Non metionning than both Angel and Pimp will probably suffer.
We could all play Blind suiciders next age :p, everybody noobs again :D. Anyway it shows that the good old proverb is still valid.
There is always 2 solutions to fix a trouble : The good one, and the one chosen by guys in charge .
since we have to send thieves in ratios to get decent intel, this means a loss in 5 ops gives more losses in attacks. 600 gc thieves are expensive to replace, so accurate intelligence will be an economy killer.
I suggest lower losses for thievery ops (or intel ops only) or have thieves cost 200 gc instead of 600.
Save your breath, Dracoa. I tried to tell people that chastity was going to change gnome's role and that it would make them useful as a spellcasting race... no one seemed to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracoa
Bishop, can you confirm that you meant what you typed here. Earlier, I thought that the accuracy of things like SoM was based on how many [absolute] thieves you sent...not on the proportion of thieves you send. It seems like basing it on the proportion punishes people with more thieves, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
the people with more thieves ( higher tpa ) won't fail the intel ops they make ( even if they have to send a larger % of thieves ) , if they make a fix number that won't make sense for larger provinces ( sending like 1000 thieves when u are 10 k acres - and get an accurate intel - is not the same as sending 1000 thieves when u are 2 k acres )
anyways ... DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE ELVES - make them worth playing !!!
only thing i can say is : game has a lot of unsolved bugs so expect many for next age too
Bogdan - I dont think FireBones meant absolute in the manner you took it to mean. He probably meant: absolute = fixed number compared to your size, not absolute = fixed number full stop. I've earlier raised the same concern that FireBones did and suggested to cap the number of thieves needed for full accuracy at for example 1 thieve per acre , so if you are 2000 acres that would mean that you get full accuracy either if you send 2000 thieves or more or all of your thieves if you have less than 2000 thieves...
Please - can we get some feedback to this... seems silly that a province with high tpa has to send all for full accuracy, and not only silly but dangerous, if opponent has WT or is another high tpa province then you could loose tons of thieves (and there is the random factor to, you could even fail against low tpa province and loose LOTS of thieves!
Example to drive this home: I was around 2000 acres at end of this age - had almost 50% lower losses from thievery ops from my TD:s, when sending all my 8000 thieves in last war to NS opponent i lost more than 100 thieves every time that I failed (I remember numbers like 129, 156, aso). So, if i have a similar prov next age who wants to take a SoT even one fail with high TD:s (-50% losses) will mean a cost of more than 60 000 (100 or more thieves lost * 600), the random fails now and then will hurt "quite" a lot, and if you ever have the misfortune to try to SoT a prov with WT:s or even higher tpa you will give up if you fail 2 times and then let him be because you cannot afford to try anymore only to get intel.
All this assumes off course that there will be no easy way instead to take 2 SoT with only 1 thieve and get accurate info from that...
It is interesting since it will force warring kingdoms to either adopt 1-2gnomes.
Also I am thinking when kingdoms are waring, no intel gathering ops can go in or out of the war.
question:
in the announcements this was written:
"For this coming age, Crystal Ball and Crystall Eye will not be randomized, however in future ages we may tentatively add some small randomization. An effort will be made to ensure that Crystal Ball and Crystal Eye are not significantly more difficult to successfully obtain than previously. "
does that part still stand? that the upcoming age won't be messed up just yet? as in CB or whatever is it's new name WON'T be randomized for this upcoming new age?
Here's an idea for the following age if the horrible idea of Chastity is going to still be around, let Avian's fly away and the Undead rise up to take their place, have them be immune to Chastity along with being the most recent version (which I actually didn't mind, the changes were minor enough that it was easy to adapt to), or at least have Chastity be much less effective. I mean really, how many Undead reproduce in such a way that Chastity would have any effect at all? Pretty much none.
In short, there needs to be some counter to Chastity given how abused it will be, and just making it an Unfriendly/Hostile spell alone won't cut it, though that would help.
And to be honest, if I had never played before but was considering it, just looking at Chastity would make me decide against it. The spell is broken, plain and simple. Add in that the dev's don't even seem to consider what the players say, and that only compounds the issue, or if they do they immediately dismiss it out of hand and just go with what they want regardless. Especially when there is a company out there that makes flash based games, most of which have weekly updates, all of which are FtP, and the players input is not only considered, but often makes it into the game the suggestion was for if it's reasonable. Heck, one of my ideas eventually made it's way into a game, as simple as the idea was (just a high level version of an old enemy).
Given that the final changes are out, I'd just want to share my thought on the changes. This age, I think everything else is pretty much levelled, with the possible exception of Sages still being the overpowered personality.
1. Everyone is criticising the changes of CB being made into SoT with a random component. If anything, this change make teamwork all the more important, meaning all warring kingdom will be coaxed to have at least 1 Gnome in their kingdom for intel accuracy. It's a trade-off to have an extra cannon in the kingdom, or have a dedicated intel gatherer for 100% intel. Isn't Utopia all about teamwork in the first place? Give Brian and Sean a chance to implement this change. We wouldn't want to have a race that's good in everything now, would we?
2. The introduction of Gnomes has drawn quite a lot of flaks as well. But look at it this way, they are a race specialised for intel gathering, and have the spell of Chastity. Sure, they are weak attackers, but Chastity gives them an edge. If they are still weak after this age, I hope (and believe) Brian and Sean will tweak Chastity a little, to make them stronger. Or perhaps introduce a little bonus. But from the looks of things now, they are not too bad.
These game changes are for the better imo. Sure, there are other things that I think they could have done a better job at balancing or introducing new ideas, but for a start, they did a decent job this time around. For me, there is only 1 major unbalanced factor: Sage. I think removing the 30% Cheaper Sci or 30% Science Effectiveness should do the job. But I guess people won't be griping about it because they are going to take advantage of the imbalances.
In the final word, give them a chance. The devs are far from perfect, with contradicting announcements and poor communication, but things are getting done. Do give them credit where it is due.
Per Brian's announcement explaining Chastity: "Its difficultiy, cost, duration and/or required relations may require tweaking during the age, however I hope to avoid this."
For god's sake don't add to the confusion by saying "we may change everything after you make your race/personality selection." I mean, that's the whole point of all this. You can't pull the rug out from under anyone on anything after the selections are locked in. That's the sort of decision that leads to these conspiracy theories about you intentionally sabotaging the game, because it will so obviously cause players to scrap their accounts or quit. Once it's set, it's set. Don't think you can adjust anything mid-game.
And what does it mean that "it's a short lived timed spell"? How short? Like fanaticism? War spoils?
We never get exact numbers on spells.
As for tweaking things mid-game then why not? I agree that changing the relations in which it is avalable mid-game is going over the top, but tweaking difficulty is fine by me - it is a dynamic game, it doesn't need to be made too easy for the players by having everything spelled out for them.
People expect bugs to be fixed mid-Age so clearly Chastity being massively overpowered or underpowered would be considered to be a bug.
Tweaking would be fine, but when things like duration and unfriendly/hostile only are thrown in, that doesn't sound like tweaking. Given all the anxiety about this very high-powered spell, obviously it's a substantial factor in deciding whether to run a gnome. If you choose a gnome based on Chastity, then it ends up being a 1-3 hour spell that's virtually impossible to cast, you may find yourself wishing you hadn't selected that race or a particular personality and just delete, or worse, go inactive. Obviously we don't have exact numbers on a lot of spells, but that's hardly what's at issue here.
Surely nobody chooses a race for just one spell? Most normal people will choose Gnome for intel purposes with Chastity as an added bonus for something additional to do.
Well, get real. Not for just one spell, but with all the anxiety about this spell it's obviously of substantial significance. How do you think a dark elf would feel if they nerfed tree of gold mid-age? Or an orc if they nerfed fanaticism? Or a mystic if they nerfed meteor showers? All the anxiety proves it's a big deal. So is it or isn't it? We should know now, not figure it out as we go.
CE: Steal Daily Paper
CB: Scout Enemy
My ideas check it
Dude,chastity is cool, but your getting it all hyped up for nothing. It's not like that spell alone makes a prov. and all this "anxiety" is mainly from not being listened to, not the changes themselves, and even then its more about the turning cb and ce to thief and such that people mad about. not chastity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
Don't try to troll me. It's a well-founded question and it stands. It's directed toward the devs.
kill all gnome you found in game ! don't do anything before last gnome in game is dead, then they might listen
lol exactly
quote: halfling Eli: 6/5 $550 5.0nw,
sean or brian should increase halfling leets since it's an attacker race now, and they find gc easier than avian or orc in war,
should be $750 or $800,
Sure why not base your race selection on one spell? KDs choose elves for pitfalls, and dwarves for fog all the time. Do you think as many top KDs would have ran dwarf last age if they didn't have fog? Do you think DE would be run as much if not for nightmare? Chastity is the make or break for gnome this age, just like those single spells were for those other races.
Disclaimer: Just in case you're going to sound like pmyraje, or in fact, are pmyraje, no, I don't mean no one will run those races if those spells weren't available to them, but the numbers would be significantly less.
Of course there would be fewer and if you take away Chastity fewer people would run Gnomes. My point is you don't need to know exact numbers on it before picking it. There are spells and ops in the game that we still have a fairly sktehcy understanding of - e.g. Bribe Generals - does anyone actually know what the effect is of sending 1 thief vs 1000 thieves?
The devs have also said they will tweak certain other spells and having exact numbers for these has never been part of the game knowledge that just gets presented to us so are people going to moan that they don't know if Amnesia will be worth picking Elf for any more or whether NM will be weakened so that DE is no longer so good or ME is enhanced so that Mystic becomes a killer personality?
Like I said - changing the relations in which a spell is available mid-Age is unacceptable - tweaking its potency if it turns out that a new spell is ridiculously overpowered comes under the realms of bug fixing and is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Spells effects should always be able to be dynamic in case the devs get the numbers wrong when tweaking and make a certain spell way too good or bad. It's not like suddenly tweaking a Dwarf Off spec to be worth 5.78 offence points when it is clearly advertised as being worth 6.
Sure, without a doubt, small changes are unlikely to affect anything. But we as human beings like stability. We like to know that when we accept something, it won't change. I like knowing the American Constitution cannot be changed save by a referendum. If you tell me that the government wants to get rid of the entrenchment and allow the Constitution to be modified at any time without notice, possibly to rectify typos or minor grammatical errors, alarm bells will be ringing in my head.
We don't like when we borrow money and the banks suddenly hike up interest rates without warning. We don't like that they can unilaterally change the terms of our client contract. We don't like that they can suddenly impose new fees on us. Regardless of whether they do or not.
Similarly, I don't like that they're explicitly saying that they may change the power of things mid age. What if they nerfed fog to only increase BASE attack time by 1 hour? You don't know what they'll do, and though that's not an argument unto itself, people like certainty. I would certainly not like to see any "tweaking" of anything that's not a bug in the middle of an age. If it's overpowered, well it'll teach them to spend more time testing before they bring it online.
Halfings should be given 5/5 leets instead and Gnomes 6/5, given the fact that Halfing have destructive thievery power. (6/5 $550) Halfing province can easily kill off a DE (6/4 $650) province without breaking a sweat. With Quickfeet and Warspoil, even Dwarves have to be afraid of Halfings (Artisian has been nerfed).
In summary, Halfing > Dwarf> DE. DE Rouge and Gnome Mystic makes good non-attacking T/Ms. Halfing Shepherd or Halfing Sage makes good attacker.
Think about it...
Hello
Please leave it like it is.
If you will move this (CB AND CRISTAL BALL) from magic, it will never be a accurate CB, like SOM is now !!!
It will make our lives a hell (for attackers).
just leave it there, and do not split into categories, it is just taking more time for everything, it is not helping at all.
If you improuve it, make it in the way to be easyer and faster to acces any field, not in the way to make more cliks for everything.
Thanks.
Moving CBs to thievery and making them random are two independent changes anyway. They could still have chosen to randomise them as a spell or chosen to move them to thievery with 100% accuracy.
As for certainty - I like it in things that are actually important - e.g.national constitutions, bank rates, etc, etc. In a game I like some dynamism and uncertainty so long as it comes under the heading of a "tweak" rather than a sweepingly large change mid-Age.
- Nightmare has been investigated. It was found that it was not performing as expected. A compromise has therefore been decided on and the spell strength has been modified downwards, though it has not been weakened to its original expected result. Please note the troops arriving per tick aspect will not be changed.
That is the sort of thing that it would have been great to know about two days ago, not when the game is supposed to have started already.
Next age can they try to make Mage Ops more important and move all the intel op's over to spells? I mean, that's exactly what's happening here only going to Thieves.
nm was bugged, now it isnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiskinator
I think people are whining too hard.
Last age was a bit odd, because of the whole dwarfisan thing, but this one seems interesting. Iīm glad that the mods poured in all these new changes, as the game needed some new aspects. Wether or not the new intel system will work, time will tell. But races and personalities have been balanced alot, and I think it looks awesome. People need to stop crying, and get their **** together. I say well done, and I canīt wait till ticking begins.
This is all very dramatic, but everyone and their mother knows that OMAC will fail at implementing these changes, so we'll be relying on 100% accurate SoM's, anyway.
agreed...
After thinking really hard about this post and swallowing it all in a matter of one night and being im not one to post in a forum since, well the Undead were removed due to whatever they thought, easy mode, unplayable or whichever, it left me in a gripe for awhile being that never really played any other race but oh well chit happens, give it an age and then ask me......
I Have To Say I Agree With Alot Of The Other Players Removing CB & CE completely from mages and puts it all into the thieves hands, is BAD but i see the Devs point it Makes the game more interesting expecially for the new people which is gonna be this games foundation when everyone else leaves (which i Pray Dont Happen) well people lacking some of the mathematical skills are gonna realize "heh i dont need to know math to play this mathematical equation haha yay, imma send thieves out to kill all the mages and attack those mages that are either super or hybrids... which leaves us mages at a disadvantage, less ops and ok i read way earlier that we mages were called lazy ect... ok that i definitely dont agree with because and this is being a Undead M/A, to now a DE M/A... Some ways we DE are just like UD... but when it came down to it reliable mages like myself gathered cbs on the enemy kd made our attacks well thieves ruined a KDs economy, we Mages made it harder with sending aid and peasentry ect... welll thieves just plain robbed them blind then came our land grabs, but it was all as we need cooperation Between our KD and everyone on the right page you are only as strong as your weakest link and it can effect this game, however we look at it....
Now The Devs Point of View- making Ops more dependant on thieves makes yes less chance for thieves to be succesful but still gather intel for the rest of the KD... THERE IS NO I IN TEAM... and yes most of us may not enjoy intel gathering but it definitely keeps us active, and cripples a thief in a way but not by much and its not even a cripple just means chaining will be very effective this Age and COOPERATION= a very interesting age
Mages- disadvantages are we have really know way gathering intel according to hybrids or super mages but heh now Guess WHAT we cant Be Lazy As Much As some Consider our job is to keep Magic Chaining and keeping those ops the MS and Greed, Drought or whatever we choose to use on an enemy KD at all times, and now having to gather less intel means heh we will be more appreciated as long as the thieves hold out the bargain,
So Now as I See It We No Longer Have A Rock, Paper, Scissors Effect any Longer= which means enjoyable in some remorse twisted way, so while yall stealing from each other ill make sure to have WT's and keep all them lovely durations on you and Myself .
this is what we can do to make the age interesting only after trying it will WE KNOW if this was a waste
-Slainte-
-Frozen Graveyards- Retirement,-UD..... Ill Always Be The Evil Sorceror Locked In My Tower Looking At New Ways To Cripple and Drive My Enemy Insane Even If I DOnt have The Luxury of Feeding Him To My Ghastly Pets No More....
that's a stupid DE talking, you have ToG. how much time you spend in real wars in one age ?
what are wizzards good for outside war now ? random storms ?
Ok So I Have ToG, and the Times Im Around I Tend To Be More Active Then Most Referring to Me as A Stupid DE is false i WIll Always Be Forever a retired Undead, But simply Stating Thats a Stupid DE talking Why Because I Enjoy Wars, and I dont Enjoy Being Outside of One Yes Im A Mage yes i Have ToG its become quite useless and unlike some im not here to turtle i enjoy the wars end of story, and just because we are not as effective anymore as we used to be doesnt mean we at any means are stupid, thats like saying a human, halfing, dwarf, avian or even elf is stupid because its the races some dedicated players have a set race like my self but ive always adapted, and wizards aint much outside war but they are at home in war Next time you get spells opted on ya remember Thats Just A Stupid DE... ^_^
-Frozen Graveyards- Retirement,-UD..... Ill Always Be The Evil Sorceror Locked In My Tower Looking At New Ways To Cripple and Drive My Enemy Insane Even If I DOnt have The Luxury of Feeding Him To My Ghastly Pets No More....