TL;DR
Can anyone summarize the last 38 pages?
SS and FS are razing each other?
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TL;DR
Can anyone summarize the last 38 pages?
SS and FS are razing each other?
big drama over fake crownQuote:
Originally Posted by fawk
Wa ss isn't complaining about that. Complaining about the false evidence and conviction we organized a gb. Other than that this war is fun and festiveQuote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
FS...thats a fake crown. Such a losers. lol
you only know how to beat smaller kingdoms :)
lets war after oop next age. lets see who's better.
it's not about the crown, at least not for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch
my summary would be(I am Lost Souls monarch, I encourage you to listen to all sides)
FS bullies smaller kingdoms all age. (threats, bottomfeeding to the extreme, refusal of diplomacy to resolve situation, insults, disrespect)
Kingdoms start to speak up and it comes to light that FS does this to many kingdoms, a pattern of acting against the spirit of the game (as we see it) comes to light.
While discussions about foul behavior take place in forum, FS does the same exact thing they have done all age. They break (an untermed , adding this so all know how much this is worth to FS) CF with SS. SS tries to speak to them because they had started talks with divinity about a war on even terms though no actual agreement had been reached.
FS refuses to answer any tries for diplo.
FS waves SS (who are well below declare range)
Lost Souls make a few hits into FS to prove a point( Going on FS' former description of what a hostile entails)
FS ignores more attempts for diplomacy trying to enable a war on more even grounds, either between fs and ss or between ss and divinity.
FS waves SS a second time making all possibilities for a fair war impossible
Meanwhile more kingdoms step up and show how FS has been bullying.
FS threatens Lost Souls for hitting into an active hostile.
FS accuses Lost Souls for calling for a gb.
Meter is maxed and war is declared.
Several kingdoms raze FS provinces, each for their own reason.
FS calls in their alliance and has SS razed accusing them of calling for a gb.
SS denies all charges , each kingdom involved gives reasons why they are razing FS.
Allegations are brought forward that FS broke a deal and waved into an active hostile by Iampost.
The alliance deems FS is right and all other 6 kingdoms must be wrong simply because it is FS.
that's pretty much it I think.
FS demands Iampost shows proof of db before answering allegations
FS claims to have proof of a call to gb by kingdoms but refuses to show said evidence
FS refuses a very reasonable offer by Lost Souls brought forward in a respectable and polite manner. They demand Lost Souls admit to calling for a gb (which we didn't) or else and I quote "well, then u stay out of deals an we come for you when you are alone" Francis on whatsapp sent to me. I'll leave judgement up to the community, but as for me this is the perfect example of bullying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Because this seems to have gone unnoticed for so long, and it was such an accurate character witness about Goodwitch, I'm bringing this post back up. Such tenacity on a witch hunt for FS by someone who was "wronged."
tsk tsk yume and loiso. i like fs..but cannot be a fan of your methods this age. ill be around on irc if you care to explain >.<
posted on 15-12-2015 17:16Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiso
first part of the statement was referring to war with Lost Souls(my kingdom), second part about war with ruthless(also a kingdom hitting fs into war)
He did say we should check with other kingdoms, we did...
this is where all this started between us and FS. until that point we were fine. Thank you for bringing it up as it clearly shows that our differences started well before the conflict between FS and SS.
we made a mistake, that I admitted, fought a war and lost. The real bullying started after the war. You cannot wave a smaller kingdom and then claim they dodge and hide behind nw range.
I simply corrected that statement. FS felt it necessary to insist on their statement to be accurate. During forum discussion mainly consisting of "we are right because we are bigger and we have bigger friends" other kingdoms stepped up and showed that this is a pattern for FS.
I will not be bullied into being silent. I have no problem admitting mistakes. This fight is not a mistake. If someone threatens my kingdom we will fight. every time.
I really wish this was a different war. Our fight has nothing to do with helping SS. We respect SS, they warred us , beat us in a heck of a fight. We are not trying to give them the win. Our actions are against FS for unsportsmanlike conduct and acting against the spirit of the game.
p.s. you can insult me any day and it doesn't matter at all. Threaten and insult my kingdom and we have a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
I don't care to argue with you. I just wanted to bring this up for others reading this thread that your perspective is not the be all and end all of this matter.
also...FS could just give a summary of chain of events. I did suggest those interested should hear all sides.
Instead you go and hang out your bully attitude again.
You had and still have every opportunity to show that you are not bullies. But alas you insist on proving you are.
I scoff at you. Does that make me a bullyQuote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Your argument is in defense of aggressive action. When you attack someone first you need to understand that the reaction is up to the recipient. What, are we going to start measuring appropriate retaliation? Well, they already have.Quote:
Originally Posted by yuuume
I'm well aware of mechanical leverage, and you assume this advantage means diplo should go smoothly as the smaller kingdom should lay down. That's exactly opposite to my reaction to aggressive insurgence. And like I said, it's not anger and it certainly isn't fear. For my part and many others we embrace challenge.
You're questioning the character of the player on the receiving end of a slew of FS advocates. Your statement condemns kingdoms/players that defend themselves.
Goodwitch was wronged because FS started it. SS was wronged because FS started it. It's that simple.
It's a disrespectful act as google definitions indicate and therefore bullying, lol. So the answer is yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare_
Merry Christmas Nightmare_
1. to speak derisively; mock; jeer
nope. Claiming you are right no matter what because what you claim to be the majority of the server agrees with you while it is in actuality a tiny fraction of the server does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare_
Claiming that might makes right does.
Consistently hitting tiny kingdoms not even involved in the crown fights claiming it is your only choice while refusing wars on level ground does.
Hitting kingdoms a fraction of your size and then claiming they are dodging you does.
I have said it and will say it again, this is not a personal attack against the players of FS. I think FS has great players and they are well capable fighting challenging wars.
This is a select few that believe they rule the world and can bully anyone that questions them into submission. Among those is FS' leadership.
This is about measuring right and wrong on a different scale for some.
Quote:
Your argument is in defense of aggressive action. When you attack someone first you need to understand that the reaction is up to the recipient. What, are we going to start measuring appropriate retaliation? Well, they already have.
I'm well aware of mechanical leverage, and you assume this advantage means diplo should go smoothly as the smaller kingdom should lay down. That's exactly opposite to my reaction to aggressive insurgence. And like I said, it's not anger and it certainly isn't fear. For my part and many others we embrace challenge.
You're questioning the character of the player on the receiving end of a slew of FS advocates. Your statement condemns kingdoms/players that defend themselves.
Goodwitch was wronged because FS started it. SS was wronged because FS started it. It's that simple.
i agree with this 100% 2 kds who worked to a crown hard all age..one decides they want it more cuz they worked 'harder' and decides to force the others hand to give it to them instead of winning it fair and square. you bullied a kd who potentially worked just as hard as you did..and didnt stand a chance in there current state. people in server see this and decide that this bullying is unwarrented so stand up to the bullies. now..fs calls in the alliance to bully those standing up for there moral rights..and now bullies them into saying ss cant compete for crown anymore and tells others to screw off...when in the start it was FS getting greedy and playing the part of the bully cuz tehy wanted it more so it was right to bully them to win it. gj fs on showing how good you are...as well as your 'alliance' that apparently says bullying is alright..since you support fs and now are bullying yourself. this game is just downright screwed. sounds like highschool all over again
Then I am guilty of being the playground bully. Crucify me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Merry Christmas
ah well what do i know. all people i used to respect and like are part of the side that knows its bullying but keeps trying to justify themselves. same old game, same old bullsheet. games dying..game is fcked. dont think ill be returning next age. that is for sure
Thanks Goodwitch.
So my question is, why did FS start waving SS in the first case?
From what i understand they had CF. Besides that SS already warred FS and lost. And on top of that, from what i understand, SS was too small to war FS anyways before the wave even started.
Were FS waving SS to deny them honor crown? Or just to get some free honor for their own guys?
If they broke CF for that, that's pretty freaking lame.
If FS had a valid reason to start waving SS, what was it?
This what I've gathered:Quote:
Originally Posted by fawk
-FS was #1 honor, SS was #2 honor. FS was ahead by about 3k.
-FS had a standing CF with SS, but no terms on it, meaning they were free to break it whenever they want.
-SS were planning on getting another war, which if they would have won, would have most certainly put them ahead of FS for honor.
I see nothing lame/wrong about FS actively working to secure their crown. They didn't break any deals. They didn't wave some scrub kingdom with nothing to offer just to be a bunch of jerks. It was #1 waving #2. Everything else is QQ.
I already know my province name for next age. Bully, best word eu.
only maybe if you put it into context of them refusing to war the kingdom ss was going to war. and refusing offers to fight ss on level ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
so hypothetical scenerio because I am sure they are all CFed..but... if say The U wave FS right out of EOWCF now(justification that there are provinces in range they can gain acres from)...would FS going to smile and take it or would they complain that it is unfair ? Would their allies leave it at a 1 vs 1 or would they intervene?
They would call Trump to make them great again. You should try!Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
This^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
After that 3 KD's started razing FS in war one of which broke EOA cf we had.
Basically we got gb'ed cause we played hardball.
Drama stems from the fact kd's who decided to help us are razing SS, who in return claims they had nothing to do with GB and outsiders acted on their own accord.
this was posted just a few minutes ago in another forum thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluorr
totally isolated incident or pattern of bullying and avoiding real wars? What exactly did that smaller kingdom have that Spectre didn't in that scenerio?
Spectre never waved FS, you seriously need to **** off with your lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
so that's the 7th kingdom that lies then? That was posted by a Spectre player not me, I just quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
you will drag every bad pos anyone ever posts or says about us here, that is why ignore most of stuff you say and why your word isnt worth paper its written on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
We have SN archive for whole age and Specter never waved us.
Its a lie, you are a liar.
I said this before and will say it again.
Guys, stop fighting with them. Seriously. What do you expect to happen? They suddenly understand logic and say 'oh you're right now that I think about it..'?
Doing the same thing expecting something different is insanity. Or are you doing it because you enjoy it? If so then grow up.
You explained it enough. It is clear they don't/won't/refuse to get it. Let them say what they want.
Truth !! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by crixilver
this post pretty much sums it up accurately.. fs did nothing to justify getting hit into war/getting gbed/getting dealbroken - and appropriate response is being given to those organizing & getting involved in it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I think Pale says a lot along the same lines on pages 5-8. I won't quote that BC it is a mile long. I remember my steward at the time made a blank cf with Jerks in 63 or whenever MORBOs insano self was running it and that didn't end well for ol dad here and his troopers. #Goodtimes
Oh BTW @utopia HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
I disagree. I do think it's a lame move on FS part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
On the same coin if SS was bigger, it would be legitimazing SS raze killing FS provinces so they could drop FS honor, and ensure the honor crown for themselves.
It's a dick move.
If you want honor crown, fight wars and win them.
Don't ****play smaller kingdoms to stop them from getting a legitmate crown.
In your logic Godlys kingdom would just take honor crown because they would wave/raze the other top 10 honor crown contenders to make sure they don't crown. It's dumb and it's definitely not honorable.
Want a crown, then fight and win wars and earn it. Dont ****play others so you can steal it from them.
And p.s:
i have no idea what the backstory for this is.. just going off what palem said that FS are much bigger than SS, and decided to wave them to stop SS from having a war where they could possibly surpass FS in honor.
This is the crux of what we disagree about. Winning wars and generating honor first-hand is certainly one way to go around winning the honor crown, but it's not the only way. You can also take it from the people who are winning these wars so simply can't defend themselves from you. If I said the same thing about land, it would sound silly. "If you want to win the land crown, fight wars and win them." Sure, of course that's an option and running the table and stacking up wins against good quality kingdoms sure is a lot more impressive than getting a quick farm war OOP and then using that leverage to win a crown 14 weeks later, but that's obviously not the only way good kingdoms can get things done.Quote:
Originally Posted by fawk
If CR wants to raze out the top honor kingdoms to try and raise themselves up to the cherished triple crown, they're more than free to try and do it. I don't think it would be successful and I think they would find themselves getting a whole lot of unwanted attention (the kind that would result in kingdoms banding together to work against them), but I certainly wouldn't call it ****playing.
I think what this all boils down to is that some kingdoms think size is an unfair advantage. I agree that it is an advantage, but most definitely not an unfair one. It's an advantage they worked for all age and for good reason, because you're bigger and badder than most of the other kingdoms. Everyone starts at 400 acres. If you think being bigger puts kingdoms at a huge, unbeatable advantage, then why the hell aren't you growing? If it's because you can't grow and collect honor at the same time, then the kingdom that can grow and collect honor at the same time is better than you are. Period. If it's because you didn't want to grow, then you've made a strategical mistake when a bigger kingdom comes along and wants your resources.
Also, I would like to point out the age that Mythos won their honor crown, they had a much larger kingdom in Jerks trying to razekill them out to secure their crown. No one cried(Edit, well there was crying, but not this kind lol). No one started a gangbang. Mythos defended themselves, countered the razes, and won themselves an honor crown.
Mythos case is different from FS vs SS. SS didnt called allies to gb FS. They did that on their own. FS called allies to gb raze SS.
So whats the same there? Thats not even a logic for you to understand
Exactly what Palem said. Nobody is expecting you to cough up every honour point you earned from randoming a smaller kingdom's honour-laden T/M this age. But that was an advantage of your size as well.
Most importantly, within the game mechanics if you're #1 and #2 surely you're competing? Mythos defended their honour successfully against Jerks. If you can't defend yours, don't expect to keep it. If you're 3k honour away from the #1 kingdom, "I need that honour to fight a war, we're not competing I promise" isn't going to fool anyone.
Big kingdom high on the honor chart wants to use their size as leverage against a smaller kingdom to win the Honor crown. It's exactly the same situation, it's just the kingdoms involved handled it better so the outcome was much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopsie
Seems like way too much work, we will pass the buck to VlahulQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
This deserves to be emphasized. Palem hits the nail on the head here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
agree with Palem.