FS vs ED: FS brings in out of hostile help?

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Originally Posted by Felonious

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Originally Posted by protector

Who from BB justified it?!

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I'm wondering the same thing. Apparently, he didnt just justify it, he suggested it. How is that very different from the stuff you organized a whole gangbang on Emeriti for?

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Such odd silence on this...

ASF & Korp: Stop derailing thread please!
Silverfox: Stop your tl;dr posts please!
Someone (Nesta?): Explain to us what went on behind the curtains please!

So few answers from Pyro (well, side from Sheister who as per always knows nothing, and insists on everyone knowing he knew nothing. Cutie pie!), so little questioning what actually took place here...

I want to be enlightened!

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Originally Posted by Felonious

Just rolled over? You might recall we were getting gangbanged by 6?...7?..kds. I lost count. We did what we could do and probably better than most could have done in that situation. But it was virtually impossible to beat you all. You also might recall what the whole gangbang was supposedly abt. So now that it's come out that a BB council member sent Pyro to double hostile ED, it would be fabo if flogger/prot could give us some answers on the matter. Protector was just reading this thread. But he didnt reply to the questions :(

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Didnt dorje invent the stop hitting for a few hours so another abs kd could wave play? As with everything not nice..... It all starts from the same place #blamedingo

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Originally Posted by Shai

Because ASF have always been way to inactive ingame and active in the forums to ever run multis? And when someone cheat massively its always gets out in the end

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Lol, so now being active equals not being a cheater? Thats the best you can come up with? :p

flogger and prot both respond, both ignore the pretty serious allegation =\

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Originally Posted by flogger

Didnt dorje invent the stop hitting for a few hours so another abs kd could wave play? As with everything not nice..... It all starts from the same place #blamedingo

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Originally Posted by protector

Lol, so now being active equals not being a cheater? Thats the best you can come up with? :p

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Originally Posted by Tadpole

Such odd silence on this...

ASF & Korp: Stop derailing thread please!
Silverfox: Stop your tl;dr posts please!
Someone (Nesta?): Explain to us what went on behind the curtains please!

So few answers from Pyro (well, side from Sheister who as per always knows nothing, and insists on everyone knowing he knew nothing. Cutie pie!), so little questioning what actually took place here...

I want to be enlightened!

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Could perhaps you two gentlemen shed some light on this? Did BB ask, advice, suggest, okey, Pyro waving ED into their hostile with FS?

Nesta goes afk too cause he needs permission to talk :(

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Originally Posted by Palem

flogger and prot both respond, both ignore the pretty serious allegation =\

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Cause I already talked to all the leaders involved?

For the forum crowd #blamedorje

Romanian kingdoms actually invented that tactic. One absalom kingdom...mercy or dragons?...waved...I forget who, maybe TDA?...and after a ~day of retal war they offered an in-game ceasefire and Fratzia waved the Absalom kingdom roughly the next hour. Unfortunately instead of answering it the way we should have by saying it was wrong and ensuring that it was stopped, we responded in kind. I've always called it the switcharoo, and it's moderately-to-highly dirty, not only forcing a ceasefire on the kingdom you want with a power play, but also vulturing them on top of it. It is definitely to be reserved for kingdoms that have already played dirty against you.

So no, Flogger, I didn't invent it. Maybe you did?

Ok , so when was last time it was done in say the past 20 Ages amongst t10 kingdoms and who did it? #blamedorje

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Originally Posted by silverfox

Not sure how much of the above you'd already spoken to Parth about, I did try to be clear that I didn't know the exact timings of a lot of things (I was away most of the weekend as well), but it gives what I would consider a reasonable overview of the timeline to people not involved (also tried to remain unbiased).

I'm not trying to paint it as ED offering FS a 100% even fight, but rather to show that it wasn't just a case of ED being hell bent on killing FS at any costs. ED offered FS some time to war and prep, they could have taken it and lost (if they thought they would) then moved on, but they refused to war and then refused any CF offers, something they spent weeks complaining at ED for doing.

Them having a terrible setup isn't really an excuse for anything, they made their choices at the start of the age, it's like me picking a 25 T/M KD then crying foul when someone tries to make terms which doesn't include a long hostile.

I'd say their honour is relevant, what would they have lost if they wared ED and had to WD? Land and honour. What would they have lost if they had a 1, 2, 3 week hostile vs. ED? Land and honour, probably a lot of T/M power and maybe sci. What was one of the key points in EDs CF offers which were declined as being unreasonable? FS giving ED honour. The fairly reasonable conclusion is that FS didn't want to giveup any free honour to ED, yet are more than happy to harvest it in an AWAR where the other KD doesn't fight back.

The key point I'm trying to convey is that even after having provs raze killed and reset they were still #1 honour KD, gives an insight of how much they farmed from that war and it's not like they had to grind out (x) hard wars to get to #1 so ED were trying to rob them of some hard work. Maybe someone knows just how much they gained from the war, it seemed like ~10k acres (?) but I don't know the honour.

As for who in BB, that should probably be directed towards your own council to find out who authed it or towards your own allies who were making the claims about BB council.

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I am so tired of this arguin i stoped posting, ill make one more rant, mostly cause I dont like how things between our 2 kd's have played out these last 2 ages and i would rly like to put an end to all this bs.
I dont want to prove you wrong on anything, I want to convey my personal feelings about stuff that happened, mostly this age, between our kd's.

For starters, everything we had when awar ended we gained in it, and nothing was free. We started like 20-30k acres and lord titles, when we joined it was 3v4 situation in abs favor and than Sleepy joined abs and things were looking rly bad for us. We almost instantly ended up warring larger, more pumped enemy and were than razed for days by 3-4 kd's with our hitters dying like flies and all our tms/hybrids getin constantly hit down.
In the end our side recruited more suport and ended up winning, and due to button available/nw on all kds involved FS ended up warrin Emeriti to force them to agree to our side's terms ... big whoopidy woo ... we got 2 days of almost free hits after weeks of smackdown and 24/activity ... excuse our french if we kinda dont like when forum warriors scream how we just gb'ed someone and got everything we had for free ... and Iam not refering to you or your kd, just talking about general picture loudmouths create on forums.

As far as our own conflict goes ... well we rly didnt know it was you guys till the very late in eowcf. Our original plan was to do a hour of normal to double up faes at oow and switch to fort to pump and take a chill period to recuperate after awar, so we ended up runing 30-40 mills on faes, underdrafting and preping for chill period when we figured out who you are and we knew its time to pay the bill for last age.

I wont overanalyze it ... neither of us is retard. You had 7 or su ub's at 3-4k acres, our top hites were at 2.3k or so i think, your top hiters were at close to 4k i think and out top tm's at 2.7k, 7 to 0 in ubs, 5 of those almost impenetrable to ops.
We tried to get extension, you ofered terms , we knew we was ****ed either way when we saw the offer, nothing could be done. We ended up exploring *some* land and still switching to fort to help buffer the inevitable dmg that was to come and abandoned plans to launch faes. Generally we expected youd take moral satisfaction of catching us with our pants down and either take free wave/waves or youd refuse cf and farm us for a while and than move on.

Your cf offer at engage wasnt unexpected, I cant say for sure what were your intentions, but it was fairly humiliating at best and highly abusable at worst. So we figured just sit in fort, let you farm as much land/honor as you see fit while doing what we can and wait it out. We knew you will wave with full gains since protection wouldnt have kick in and we couldnt op back for ****, but we figured by the time protection phases in it would serve as incentive to move on and will mitigate some dmg to boot. Stupid decision in retrospective but what you gonna do ...
We were gona loose more this way but at least we save face ... srsly who would ever give 4 waves for cf, grudge or not, one of them learn to boot ?

After few days we all know what happened, you didnt seem interested to cf and we believed your sole intention was to recreate events from last age and farm us for 10+ days before moving on. I wont go into arguments here, ill just say its general opinion in FS that last age was caused by your kd's stubborness and pride and Parth's big mouth.
Considering we choose not to act stubborn this time arround and gave you moral satisfaction and at the time you allrdy secured significant amounts of honor and land from us (in a manner we didnt find humiliating), a lot more than you initially asked for even and still didnt seem interested to move on we felt we didnt deserve that we decided to "pull a feint" and roll over.

We cant help if you guys feel ****played, but we didnt think you are after anything but last age recreation. We waited for you to take land, to take honor, we gave you moral victory ... nothing seemed to be enough. Yeah its lame to turn away like we did but we were not looking to sit arround for 10 days while you farm us and tbh its nothing unhered off, we had same **** happen to us last age while we were pounding stoners and nobody gave a ****, only regular haters called us dodgers and Sleepy droped by to farm us and try to deny us honor crown.

Nobody will care about this next age either, if brought up ppl who hate us will call us pussies, and ppl who hate you will call you dodgers and honor farmers ... and thats about it. Only our 2 kds will rly care. This will be a footnote in neverending forum flamewars.
Our guys in general either think it was lame thing to do or just dont give a ****, but we also think we didnt wrong you, since you got to walk away with all that honor and land. I am not saying we should or even could have stopped it, iam saying we feel you got resources you deserved and we stoped what we felt we didnt deserved.

Ill add 2 more things in the end even if its irrelevant, just because it annoys me when you guys misintpret it, deliberatly or not it doesnt matter.

We never tried to razekill your guy last age. You jumped into fort and we had no way to force you out of it, so we picked one guy who allrdy lost lot of land and had big books and started razing him to force you to switch stance. We knew you had to go back to normal due to tax/explosions/fort explore costs or risk loosing large amount of books and wpa, when you jumped back to normal we stoped hitting him.

We dont play bad setups cause we are retards. We get tired of allways rehashing same old **** so we try wierd stuff. Its not way to say "omg we are soo leet we play with handicap", and its not aliby for when things dont work out. Its just something different to try out, sometimes it backfires sometimes it works our brilliantly ... but either way it ads flavor since it literally forces you to completelly rehash strats. We arent dumb, we know runing 5 wpa/5tpa/5epa mystic/elf core is bad for competitive warring ... but it can be fun ... sometimes.

Me personally and i feel fs in general rly dont have some huge grudge against you guys ... we dont actually LIKE you, but we dont think you are scumbag kd like some others in this game (alltho parth does have bigger mouth than steven tyler and should put a sock in it), we dont have to be bff's but I dont think either of us wants to allways have to think where the other guys are and look for chance to wave eachother from position of power. If it has to be that way so be it, but if we can put this bs behind us and treat eachother like just another KD it would be best for both sides.

I do hope we get to war on even grounds and w/o ****ing forum drama soon, iam sure no matter the outcome both kd's would feel better about it all after that.
Take this rant for w/e you want, its my personal opinion ... its highly unlikely ill put any more effort into their thread since iam too ****ing tired of it.

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Originally Posted by Tadpole

So few answers from Pyro (well, side from Sheister who as per always knows nothing, and insists on everyone knowing he knew nothing. Cutie pie!), so little questioning what actually took place here...

I want to be enlightened!

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Well, I was charged with specific knowledge is all. Other than that I just shared the things I knew. Like the wave timeline that I posted back on page... 2?... and little things like that.

I don't see a way ED / FS will get a conflict that both deem equal.

Both have likely fallen into the trap of only fighting back if you think you can win

While I love the good old forum drama and endless cycles of blame and finger pointing, I'm not sure that the AWAR really has to do with anything in this thread?

ED stayed out of the AWAR and then find themselves being double hostiled by 2 alliance KDs and claims from one of them that a 3rd also played a hand in organising it. Since that point 2 of the 3 KDs have gone totally silent on the matter and 2 leaders in the 3rd are ignoring the question/giving vague answers/arguing about something totally off topic. I think there's been enough threads about the AWAR that almost everything has been done to death, the elephant in the room right now is that one of the KDs in question organised a GB on another KD because of advice they might have given another KD, yet seemingly not only knew about Pyro going to double ED but encouraged it.

To me it seems like a very simple call; if the claims aren't true then you'd probably want to just come out and say that it never happened & there's been no hypocrisy. The people involved are vocal enough about other aspects of KDs play this age that it seems unlikely they wouldn't just nip the claims in the bud with a "this didn't happen". I also find it unlikely that someone managed to go rogue and advise Pyro on the matter without anyone else having a clue what was going on.

Didnt this get resolved days ago?

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Originally Posted by flogger

Cause I already talked to all the leaders involved?

For the forum crowd #blamedorje

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Then I have to assume that BB did in fact direct Pyro to get involved.