Enough with the trolling, multi.
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Enough with the trolling, multi.
I dont know if dragon is still reading this thread but I just stumbled on it and I think I may be the one that was in his kd last age and running 40% homes, and never even knew I started this debate til now :)
Anyways, I just wanted to show my basic math as to why I liked homes and I didnt go to the total-vines strat (as balance is needed according to my numbers). I am also ignoring the BR bonus as its just icing on the cake:
Example prov has 1000 acres (25ppa or 25000 pezzies), no sci for simplicity but as its already been stated; more sci = greater effects for homes
1% homes = 80 more pop and reduce the jobs by 250 (reduce the jobs means I can put more pezzies to troops or workers without hurting BE [which has also been proven to be bad by ragnarok) for a total of 330 more people that I can use however I want:
as workers they = additional 743 income; or as def units = 1650 def (1320 for orcs and 1980 in the case of humans); or as elites (total off depends on the race 7 offense is about middle ground or 2310 offense)
All other buildings are assuming 0 homes and 50% draft (total 12500 pezzies and 12500 troops; the higher the draft the worse the numbers get as BE is affected more and more) AND I'M GIVING YOU 100% BE although anybody but dwarves will be at less than 100%.
1% banks = 250 gc + 1.25% income (approx 373 gc) = 623 gc
1% stables = 600 horses (600 offense) [a plus of horses is that they dont increase wages but its very little in wages, a minus of horses is that they dont defend ambushes either]
1% forts = 1.5% more def (if 100% troops are in def units we get 938 defense while elites, thieves, and mages reduce the total def bonus)
1% TGs = 1.5% more off (if 100% troops are elites and we go with the x7 average we get 1313 offense)
1% dungeons = max 200 prisioners = 100 gc and and 600 offense
1% arms = just use the power tools in angel and you'll see that arms are almost never better than banks which we've already seen are worse than homes
1% hospitals = -3% losses. At this size an attack may average around 600 fatalities on an attack. So 1% hospitals will save 18 lives. If those are all elites it will cost about 12,600 gc. If the homes are used to generate income, they will pay to retrain the troops in about 17 hours. If they are all off specs, homes will pay for them in 7 hours. Your playing style will decide if its worth it on this. But then, who doesnt get 12k gc every hour!?
1% TDs = 3% more to TPA. If you have a 10 TPA, to exaggerate, this will mean you get the equivalent of 300 thieves (remember homes is 330 extra units)
No other building can be compared to homes as the advantage cannot be simulated with more population. *Additional comment is that homes+buildings are better yet so I'm not saying building are worthless*
Now lets look at practical examples with an attempt to pump military def (def spec 5):
40% homes and 0% forts
Max pop = 28,200
Jobs = 15,000 and we must put 10050 pezzies to work so as not to affect BE which means we have a possibility of
22.6k income with 18,150 in military, thieves and mages. But we'll throw them all into def for referance giving you 91k Def - BEST DEF
OR
15,000 pezzies working for 34k income and leaving 13200 in def specs giving you 66k Def (Still 100% BE with lots of extra workers)
30% homes and 10% forts
Max pop = 27,400
Jobs = 17,500 and we must put 11,725 pezzies to work so as not to affect BE which means we have a possibility of
26k income with 15,675 in military, thieves and mages. But we'll throw them all into def for referance giving you 89k Def
OR
17,500 pezzies working for 39k income and leaving 9900 in def specs giving you 56k Def - BEST INCOME
0% homes and 40% forts
Max pop = 25,000
Jobs = 25,000 and we must put 16,750 pezzies to work so as not to affect BE which means we have a possibility of
36k income with 8,250 def specs or 56k Def (40% forts will give about 36% bonus at 100% BE)
OR
we put the same 10050 pezzies working for 22k income, drop the BE to 60% and now the 14,950 def specs give you 90k def (less than 40% homes gave you plus your other 60% of building are now hurting due to the BE)
Conclusion: Look at the 3 options closely. If you want max income, the 30% homes are better than 40% or 0% homes (for even better income you just drop your draft and true max income is 0 homes and to have all pezzies working but you'll have no military at all). If you want max military, the 40% is better than 30% or 0% but you'll lose a bit of income. As you increase the % of homes above 40%, your max military will continue to increase but your income will continue to decrease. If you could pillage and thieve all your gc, well more homes are better. But if you want to be self-reliant for gc, somewhere between 30 and 40% is the sweet spot, balance with more military and more income for all races and all personalities.
On all these numbers, you have to remember that as you increase the % of most buildings, its effective bonus per % drops ... except with homes. So the numbers get worse as you increase the percentages. Also, the homes increase flexability. I can easily choose more income, more offense or more defense with the troops I train or dont train since all my bonus off/def is in the troops and not in the buildings (which would have to be razed and rebuilt as banks/TGs/forts).
In a recent war, I was hit with tornados taking out 30% of my buildings, meteors, fireballs gallore, and chastity. I was lucky to get rid of the chastity and I was able to bounce back in 1 day. But I do see how fireballs and chastity are the 2x WAMMY which would REALLY hurt anybody!
What I would like somebody to expain a little is why 0 pezzies are worse for a high-homes strat than a 0 homes strat. Neither produce income and both will take forever to come back from as pezzie growth (with or without high BR) is almost null (200% BR on 0 pezzies is still 0 births). And yea I realize 0 pezzies = o pezzie death so dont flame me on it .. its an exageration. I also realize that the 0 homes player will still get his bonus from his buildings, although it will drop as BR drops with no workers, but the high-homes player also gets his bonus from still having a really large army and as BE drops, his bonus will NOT be affected. Only when the high-homes players loses a lot of troops to attacks, thats when he does loses his bonus.
Also I dont understand the complaint that a high-homes player will suffer from greed and riots. I find that inspire army almost totally off-sets greed and riots do almost nothing to me. I ignore them as they have no major effect on me. Also the increased military wages is negligable (I remember somebody did the math in this thread but I cant find it really quick. What ragnarok has already proved though is that homes = more income. a small increased wages makes little difference).
The last question that I would pose is about arson and greater arson. Would the high-homes player be more volunerable to arson? This is a much more common and easier thief task and if a high-homes player suddenly lost just his homes to arson what would be the effect? (sudden overpop I would think)
I also realize what others are saying about homes being worthless in war as I have been switching from homes to other buildings once war starts (as you get hit and gain acres you build other things in stead of homes) but the bonus of high-homes to start the war is that your BE is better going in and your new buildings will be more effective with this high BE than if you already have a bad BE and just getting worse during the war. Also a high-homes player starts a war with TONS more troops than the 0 homes player so when he converts buildings, his massive army becomes that much MORE massive (if it were a static prov, this would be a problem as your BE would drop like a rock as excessive draft becomes a problem but since your in war, you can expect lots of dead solders and keep the draft % at your max for an effective prov). IMO but not that it matters much ...
PS - I didnt post a lot of the math as I'm lazy and if you want to punch holes in my unconfirmed logic, well feel free. But the fact is that I'm presenting my strat and the benifit of homes vs other buildings where ragnarok already did the hard math of the benifit of homes on BE and income. I also have an excel spreadsheet which allows me to adjust numbers on the prov and see overall advantages and disadvanges based on the formulas here and the wiki and otherwise so I dont accually do all the math, I let the machine do it and the machine tells me homes are good up to a point.
God it will take me 2 days to read all that, i quick red it anyway and remembered my initial home calculations from last age:
I did hours of calculations too, my goal was to get good at math once more, i did not expect to get addicted to utopia again..., god damned utopia sucking my life once more!...
Anyway my final numbers at 1000 were something like this.
At 1000 acres with 100% homes =
35,000 pop
If all elites 35,000 4 generals 200% wages = 335000 mod offense=335 opa
Or as i hoped to do:
10,000 arpies , 50,000 raw dpa, army out
4,000 thieves raw 4 tpa
4,000 wizards raw 4 wpa
17,000 drakes 148,240 mod off with 4 generals 148 opa
5 peasants, thats me and my 4 fine women. and i would consider having a barman, a cook and all that too. all female, im sorry if theres any feminist here, i just love women ,im sorry for being a pig and all that.
You can move the numbers however you want, 100% homes is the most ubber strat there is. I dare you to reach this numbers with anything else (maybe 100% dungeons) .
Its all about the simplicity of not having to calculate for bonuses of other buildings, i also found out the uselesness of horses, and that many buildings are more for the sake of fantasy and roleplaying environment than for actual use.
I dont know what nw i would have at 1000 acres but it might be over 220 or 240, if you add a 10% pop and building sciences, 50% thievery and 50% magic, the numbers will just pop out the chart.
This is ,an, in theory, invincible province,
The problem would be that , once built, which really is the easiest part, how to mantain it? and can it grow? theivery and plunders for resources? maybe a growth of 2.5% per utopian month? attacking only conquests so as not to get too fat?
In any case, this was my dream province. I wish i could build it, or someone else to try it out. I ran out of invites and its very hard to convince any of my provinces into trying it out since we are focused in killing.
If anyone is up for it, we could figure out a way to try the project.
I am very worried because my kingdom wants wars and I, on the other hand ,want to try weird builds. Ive already done my share of succesfull warfare and monarchy in previous ages. I would like to spend my time doing research instead of war related activities which are way too time consuming.
I am up for forming a new test lab kingdom but we would all have to try and do build strats, there would be no " we are bored we want to war" " i want to grow and be the biggest province because of a size ego trip" or " i want to make it to the top charts" or "i need to , i need to i need to whatever" there would be no other needs than those of testing weird builds that no one else dares to try. And once we have our dream provinces, can they actually work? keep a steady growth?
I know a way of getting unlimited money too. My kingdom is now fully focused in warring and destroying the enemy, All our unlimited money ,we use for funding dragons one after another and destroying other kds. Remember its called the OGT BANKING STRAT so that you remember the name once everyone starts using it. I came up with it first.
we could also form an alliance where since i already got a killing machine kingdom, yours could do the testing and we cover your back ?
Stop stealing my thun- vines' thunder, I mean.
Made my day =]Quote:
Originally Posted by gojete
VT2 stop trolling with multi accounts, it's not even funny, it's just lame. All you deserve is an IP ban. Even if it ain't VT2, gojete is still a troll, and you guys should stop feeding him.
At least we don't have Vines and this new guy collaborating together to come up with rediculous strats!
ittlecas - Shortest rebuttal ever: NW
Everyone keeps focusing on OPA and DPA, but those are "fake" values when it comes to gains - the people your "size" are the same NW, not the same land. So you need to compare DPNW, not DPA.
Also - max BE isn't good. Spoken from someone who had argued it was for a long time - if your "raw" BE is over 95%, it is too high, you should draft more. Run the numbers (hold income constant by adding banks stolen from the homes/forts) and you'll see, even for DPNW, that this is true. (It is even more true for DPA, since higher draft increases NW.)
BTW, a raw BE of <80% for non-dwarf also isn't smart, as now it *is* too low. There is such thing as too much draft, it just happens at higher DR than 100% BE.
For the love of god, stop feeding them!
@vines 8 People extra per home on a shep so 10% homes at 400 means 40 homes...
Shepard:
((10000+(40*8))*1.1= 11352 pop
Artisan:
((10000+(40*8*1.4)= 10448
Artisan is miles behind....
@ 100% homes 400 acres:
artisan total pop:
14480
Shepard total pop:
14520
It never gets higher population... math wins
Dont be a hater dharan.. I am sorry to tell you that if you have never tried a 100% houses 1000 acres province with 4 raw tpa 4 raw wpa 60 dpa army out and 145 opa , you shouldnt be speaking that much, just because you dont believe its possible to have unlimited millions and provinces with 35000 elites at 1000 acres it doesnt mean its not possible.
I dont mean disrespect to you or any of the new or old players who have been playing this for years and have not abandoned the game after everything that has probably happened. But dont go around saying that i am a troll just because i know things that you playing this game for years have never thought about.
Dont mind my craziness in the forums either. I just dont have that fear that many of you have. Im not scared of watching my province chained, i dont care about losing wars, it does not really matter at all.
How do you think i found out that i could make 10 millions a day? I tried. And it worked.
Just like i want to try the 1000 acres province with 100% homes.
or the 100% dungeons one
I wanted to make a 30% dungeons 30% homes 30% libraries 10% guilds one too.
Have you tried any of this, or will you just go and say " it does not work", thats just stupid
Has anyone here ever tried running a 0 peasants province?
I can understand why you think it doesnt work,i see how it will fail if i think like you, thats why i dont think like you, crap i dont even think at all , i just get it done.
Either way talk is cheap, i wont talk more about this anymore unless i have the 1000 province made with real results.
In any case remember that the multi million strategy is called OGT BANKING, that is because i am OGT and its my strats, and i call it OGT banking. If you want to know how to do it send me 100 euros . I can see how a 5 million nw kingdom could use someone making 10 million gc per day
All of you who have a 5 to 7 million kingdom, tell me you wouldnt like a province making 9 millions per day.
Of course with the coward rules and naps and diplo. MAybe no one wars you because you send them dragon after dragon. You might become so powerful that an alliance will probably take you down just out of jealousy. In the end , now that this strat is out in the public, it wont take long until everyone starts doing it. Just remember , ogt was the first .
You aren't even a convincing troll. At least vines in the early stages seemed like a dolt who actually thought his crazy **** would work. You are just a tool who thinks he can bait me into the same kind of arguments I had with vines like 3 years ago. Well you aren't. Fools like you should be insta-banned, either for pure stupidity or simply for being a troll and trying to mislead people, I don't care which.
It's true.
Vines > gojete
VT2 likes to take credit for being vines, but I don't buy it. I don't think VT2 has the intellect or will power to hold that character for as long as it did. Until he proves otherwise I'll continue to think he is taking credit for someone else's trolling leetness. At the same time I also know vines account has switched hands at least twice, or the owner got incredibly lazy in maintaining the nuances of the character's typing and grammar consistencies.
All that being said, this gojete person is saying **** dumb enough where I can absolutely believe it is VT2. And these trolls started showing up right when VT2 started posting again.
play nicely please.
Bishop you have to agree something needs to be done about blatant trolling. This is a dying game, and if nothing else this forum has been getting at least some nub presence (the good kind) as of late. They need REAL answers, not this crap.
I take no offense i know that i am controvertial I wrote a very long reply, i would like to send it to bishop before i post it to see if theres anything wrong with it. I dont want to cause hard feelings, im not vines , and i understand why you feal threatened
There is nothing controversial about your level of idiocy.
I would like to start by saying that , id like this to feel like we are having a beer at the bar among friends, with friendly feelings , just having a conversation, which while serious, it shouldnt feel wrong or bad or negative. Lets just speak as if we was friends. Now im not vines, or anyone you probably know, im just someone else playing the game and finding new things that i have not seen anyone else do or try.
I dont give you my location because im scared that because you dont like me or fear me you might get my kd chained, im responsable for 17 other souls apart from mine.
I quit utopia when it was at its peak, and just came back in the end of last age, finding a completely different game where most people still play the same old way, unflexible and hardheaded. Decadent ways.
Ok its like this, i have a strategy that i can make 9 millions per day or more. I dont even need to wait weeks or months in order to change build strat.I can have unlimited money, change buildings and troops overnight. I can test anything.
This means that i can completely switch my buildings and army over a night.
I can move soldiers from elites to thieves to off specs, to def specs. I can raze and rebuild all my buildings in the 10 days it takes with accelerated construction and builders boom.Training times reduced with accelerated training and inspire army.
My only limitations are the wpa and filling up dungeons.
I understand why this is threatening to you;
Utopia is a truth representation of how the world works.
Imagine that utopia was for real, and you are a decadent person that has been playing and doing things the same way for years or decades, just like most old players are, top kd players feeling proud and all knowing...feeling so important, feeling like the best.
. Somehow out of nowhere , a guy comes and tells you, hey, what you are doing is just stupid, you need not be like this!
What do you think would happen?, you who feels is superior , who gets confidence out of belonging a top kingdom or alliance, you hear this thing, everything you know falls apart, in the beginning you will of course not believe it and regard it as stupid, until you see it done.
Once you see how its done, you will say " how did i not see it!", "how did i not come up with it myself, i thought i was so good, i thought i knew everything"
What do you think would happen to me if this was the real world, maybe you would be scared of the big change this would mean, and kill me, or kidnap me, or take the credit for yourself in order to become famous.
I know that you dont believe this things can be done, because you have never tried them yourself.
Im not going to tell you how to do it just yet. It would be nicer if you realized that , in order to get the answer, you have to let go your ego, forget everything you know, and start all over again, as to unblind your eyes and see things in a completely new way. The reason of why you have not found it out by yourself, is because of the large ammount of prejudices and beliefs that you carry around . You see things through this eyeglasses and filters, making it impossible to see things as they are.
Anyway, i know that the things i have found out about the game can completely unbalance the game, and change things as they are.
But maybe the people that rewrote the code already know all of this, and make it possible so that people didnt have to wait weeks to try a strat. No longer do you have to wait until next age to try something different, you can do it overnight.
Some of you out there, probably think that you are very open minded and so on, creative even,
I ask you the question
, do you really think that you are that open minded and creative after this?
I dont want the game to die either, but you need to give up your old ways and regenerate the way of playing, i already told you that all top kingdom players should defect and lead the ghettos . As it is right now, everyone is too scared of going to wars, or using dragons. Everyone is just too freaking chicken , everyone is scared of losing a war , or getting their provinces razed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
The game will grow and multiply from the bottom not from the top, is it the top that is decadent , all top kingdoms and alliances are a remanent of ancient glories, you have to slain the dragons and give birth to a new age.
Quit your top kds and lead the ghettos into wars, no alliances for 1 age, every kingdom for itself. A new age.
I also wanted to join the forums since last age but it was very hard to almost impossible to create an account. I tried making an account around 8 times before i could make it here, i am stupid as you say, so making an account should be easy and stupid proof, im 100% sure that , because its so hard to make an account that keeps more people from joining
*sigh*, he's getting annoying.
I stopped reading right there, since I know the game is nothing like it was at it's peak. The strategic philosophies are pretty much polar opposites, the natural game evolution has changed far too much in Utopia for that statement to hold true.Quote:
I quit utopia when it was at its peak, and just came back in the end of last age, finding a completely different game where most people still play the same old way, unflexible and hardheaded. Decadent ways.
So it still remains, you are either a troll, or a completely hopeless player. Either way you should stop posting where people want real advice.
DHaran, you're feeding the troll...
Oh, and gojete, if you produce an SoT of your working 1K acre prov with 100% homes, 100% banks, or any of the other stupid strat's you claim to master, we'll actually take you seriously!
He's a troll for 2 reasons.
1. He says he has unlimited money.
2. He says he's ran a 0 pezzy prov.
1.-I do have unlimited money
2.-i also said that i want to try make 1000 acres 100% homes, i cant because im spending all my free time with constant war planning, searching of targets and warring kingdoms all the time. giving out targets, getting soms for my attackers, cursing the enemy in messages,and all those things one does in game.
Im responsable for 17 other provinces than me ,that are active and want to have fun, saddly i cant give them what they want which is a war because all kds of our size get destroyed before we hit war state. Just now were hitting 2 kds at the same time, and we will hit a 3rd, we have to fight 3 kds at the same time to have a kick.
I just keep sending dragon after dragon after dragon.
I dont mean to be annoying ill just stop posting in this thread alltogether if its so hurtful for you to hear that you are not as good as you thought being playing this game for years.
I have no hard feelings for you my ppl, again i understand what you are going through and hope you get over it fast. We are all friends here even if we fight now and then. See you soon when things calm down, ive got some massacres to do
If you have unlimited money, then you're hacking the game.
Even if you have 10 trillion gcs, you've got limited money.
Either stop lying, or stop exaggerating.
Even trolling the troll is feeding him, so I'm just going to ignore him unless I see some poor nub buying his crap. You guys should do the same.
"An add to Luc any that's gone against my proince in war chances their view that homes our pointless in war. You just never went up against my province other wise you wouldn't be bad-mouthing homes. "
OMG it's been like 2 years and you're STILL going at this?!? Wow... well not going to feed the trolls any further but I'm impressed by how long some people in here managed to keep going on the same old tune over and over and over again...
I am teaching some nubs in a ghetto I am in and they are wondering about what is a good ammount of homes to have. It is a personal preference. They were suggesting % like 40-80% like some people in the forums suggested. Had to say that anyone using % that high would be using a vines strat, and following someone who doesnt even know the difference between percentages and decimals, even then they made maths equations that didnt make sense.
That 100% home idea is so funny, even vines had the sense to have some farms so his peasants didnt starve almost instantly to atleast try and add some credibility. Income will be so small, and you would be lucky to pay your troops at 100% wages at 60% draft.
It's so stupid. A province with 0 homes and 0 science will run 25 people per acre. Even if you ran 100% homes, you would only gain 8 people per acre. It's not like it's an insane amount. Although ... you should remember that even unemployed peasants make .75 gc per hour. Here's a quick look:
0% Homes
25 People Per Acre
60% Draft - 15 Army Per Acre, 10 Peasants Per Acre
Military Wages: 7.5 gc per Acre
Income: 22.5 gc per Acre
100% Homes
33 People Per Acre
60% Draft - 19.8 Army Per Acre, 13.2 Peasants Per Acre
Military Wages: 9.9 gc per Acre
Income: 9.9 gc per Acre
Strangely ... at 100% homes and 60% draft, your peasants will make exactly enough money to pay your military wages :) (Assuming 0 wizzies)
The big thing people claim (I guess) is that you can shove so many more people on your province. And that doesn't stand up either.
Let's assume gnome.
100% Homes
33 People Per Acre
60% Draft - 19.8 Army Per Acre, 13.2 Peasants Per Acre
For argument's sake, we'll make all 19.8 army into elites
19.8 Elites per acre = 99 DPA / 99 OPA
0% Homes
25 People Per Acre
60% Draft - 15 Army Per Acre, 10 Peasants Per Acre
For argument's sake, we'll make all 15 army into elites.
15 Elites per acre = 75 DPA / 75 OPA
31% Training Grounds, 31% Forts gives 99.08 DPA / 99.08 OPA
So, if you wanna match the military strength of 100% homes, build 31% TGs and 31% Forts, and then you'll have a sustainable economy, and 38% left to build farms, guilds, towers, and whatever else you want.
I took a few days to redo my excel sheet. And I just now got back to reading this forum again. There wasnt a lot of important posts but I did want to add my new info and respond to a few posts:
I had problems calculating DPNW since every player runs a different def/off ratio (or if you want to use thieves and mages instead of armies) and different races have different values so I tried something different which I will call ATMPkNW (Attackers,Thieves and Mages Per 1k NetWorth - it doesnt matter if your talking defensive unites, offensive units, elites, mages or thieves). I'll post a quick table if I can here as to how income, NW, homes, and armies stack up according to my new numbers. (example prov has 1k acres):Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan
~NW.....~ATMPkNW...gc.............ATMs.......Homes......~NW.....~ATMPkNW...gc...........ATMs[/U][/B]
96000........0.00.........56250........0.............at 0%.......129578......63.67........37688.....8250
110231......29.94.......50625........3300........at 10%......140451......76.36.......33919 .....10725
124462......53.03.......45000........6600........at 20%......151324......87.23.......30150.....13200
138693......71.38.......39375........9900........at 30%......167183.....101.09......26381.....16900
152924......86.32.......33750........13200......at 40%......173071......104.87.....22613.....18150
195617......118.09......16875.......23100......at 70%......205690......124.34.....11306......25575
To the left of the homes%, you have the numbers if you want Max income (not including banks or sci) and to the right of the homes% you get the numbers if you want max ATMs WITHOUT affecting BE. What I'm seeing with the table is that as you increase homes OR draft, you lose income just that raising homes do not affect BE also. But as I increase homes I also get better ATMPkNW. What I'm realizing now is that the % of homes you want to run will depend on the income you need to sustain growth and the draft % you want. But in short, homes are also good for your DPNW. However, I'm still working on the other part dealing with keeping income constant and changing homes for banks. Mostly because I wasnt trying to keep income constant :)
Next:
You right that it doesnt stand up because its not the point. The extra pezzies are nice, as is the BR, but not the reason at all for the benifit of homes. The advantage is in built acres without more jobs. Let me put it in a simple example. If you have 0 homes and 50% of your population is drafted, you have aprox 50% of your jobs that are not producing gc and worse yet, its dropping your BE so that all your buildings are only doing half their potential. Thus, no extra income for more jobs and worse performace. Ideal is to have the same number of workers as you have jobs to get max income and not affect your BE. As you increase draft, you also need to reduce your jobs and NO MATTER HOW YOU BUILD, more draft will mean less income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani
100% homes is unsustainable but if it were, your compairison is still off. The problem with your 31% TGs and 31% Forts (without homes) is that you've now affected your BE. Rough calc at 60% draft says your BE is now at 59.7% and, even if you build 50% TGs and 50% forts, you'll only get +22.5% bonus to off/def (not the +32% that you're calculating nor the 31% TGs that your using).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani
Show the calculations behind that one!!Quote:
Rough calc at 60% draft says your BE is now at 59.7% and
I ran 65% draft last age, only 2% BE Sci, no pop sci (started very near EOA) and I had a BE of upper 70's with no homes! I'm not sure where you got that BE, but it's completely off!
Reminder: You only need to fill like 2/3 of the jobs to have 100% BE. I'm not sure the exact percent, and I'm too lazy to look it up
each peasant performs 1.5 jobs for the purposes of calcing BE - so yes, filling 2/3rd of jobs = 100% BEQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragons Mate
My people that play in a ghetto and are very bored, if you are reading this, this people to claim to be pros that have been playing the game for 10 years have been playing the same boring way for ages. There is more than 1 way to play the game. Ima show you a different one.
I had a lot of free time so i decieded to start playing utopia again, and so i read the formula and found a completely different game. most people here will tell you the same strat they have been using forever I give you an alternative if you like living in your toes.
Since i had a lot of free time i could do an
Avian warrior 30% barracks 70% homes
I did several plunders a day, with the speed changes i could attack plunders every 5.8 hours similar targets networth difference not bigger than 10% .
I had 200% wages , active science research, accelerated training of elites def specs and theives at all times, minimun of 8 mod tpa to steal what i didnt get from plunders, but i really never got good at stealing and lost too many thieves so then i switched to
20% barracks 20% thieves dens 60% homes
IT worked but i then realized that guilds would be a nice addition since after 180 plunders i had hundreds of thousands of runes.
so it evolved to 20% barracks 20% thives dens 50% homes
I never had any problem feeding my people without farms and not only that but i had between 200,000 to 2 millions bushels. Gold, runes everything.
This strat is possible under 1000 acres, because i havent tried growing more, i did want to but my drinking a weekend resulted in me not being able to scan and plunder steal, and what happened is that half my pop and army were lost, and the world chained me and i lost 400 acres.
Already proven that the high homes strat was viable, but with less time to play, i could no longer try the 100% homes that i so much wanted.
So i went for a more conventioinal build 10% homes only, i right now have enough farms to cover for my decay, armouries , thieves dens and i am even building 8% banks, i am going to switch my thieves dens into hospitals. my draft is of 8% peasant population, and im paying 200% wages but lose 3,000 gc per hour.
I am in war now, and it is harder to pay for the double wages, i refuse to play like everyone else because i consider your ways decadent and old fashioned.
And thus right now i ahve 20% dungeons and building 8.2% more, ima do massacre after massacre after massacre in order to fill them up and train some more thieves so that no funny guy goes and releases my prisioners.
I am of course not runnign any science research anymore , not have the money to train armies and so on, war is harder than no war,
Eitherway, i will try to have a 100% dungeons fully filled strat. Im doing massacres every 5 hours so by monday we will see what happened
Apart from the building strats i also did an all elite army no def specs 14 tpa, at some point i had my tpa at 24 and my opa was of 100 army out with no def specs 0 defense, but no one got my intel so i got away with it forever. I then grew more acres that lowered the tpa and trained my def spcs too , still had a lot of thieves so my army got little, oh yeah i was running 110% build efficency all times too. the most balanced thing i had was 50 dpa , 80 opa and 8 tpa but as i grew larger the plunder targets became fewer and fewer and i could no longer afford to do accelerated training of army or thieves, i was lucky to get enough money for normal trining with inspire army.
Ive tried too many things, i guess it depends what you play for, i couldnt play the same way age after age after age just like i couldnt drink the same beer for my whole life or work at the same place or things like that, if you are not a boring person that does the same thing day after day go try .
I know there are persons who dont log in for 2 days because they cant stand waiting for money to come, dudes wake up, plunder and steal, forget living out of income its just stupid
one more thing until i come back on monday and set you all straight again.
At 100% homes you do not run 60% draft , you run 95% draft, the soldiers are impossible to draft by yourself, so you rely on giving gold you steal and plunder in exchange of soldiers.
The whole point for me , to have a high home strat, is so that you can draft as many soldiers as possible, its no use to keep 65% draft like conventional strats.and you dont live out of income ever either.
When i ran homes from 40 to 80% i always kept enough peasants to cover the workers needed for max efficiency, i didnt know yet that 80% is more efficient than 110% , or apparently its what everyone says.
Either way this are the main points in a high home strat , (Imo)
1. to have as many drafted soldiers as possible, 95% preferably
2. to have at least 8 mod tpa, 50 dpa and as much opa as possible to easily steal.
Playing like this is like playing another game altogheter.That is why you cant evaluate a strat like this with conventional thinking, it just wont make sense.
again = 1000 acres = 35,000 pop, or 38,000 with sciences. = 10000 archers 50 raw dpa, if 5,000 thieves 5 tpa plus science 1.5 = 7.5 tpa thats 15,000 soldiers, and you have 20,000 to 23,000 elites for a mod off of if avian 23,000 avian elites 4 generals double wages =217206 mod offense = mod 217 opa, 50 raw tpa, 7.5 mod tpa. beat those numbers with any other strat.
or if no def specs 33,000 drakes 4 generals double wages =311644 mod offense 311 mod opa 132,000 defense when army home.
Or you could run 10,000 thieves for 15 tpa and all elites, so that no one gets your info and retals on you. I got a dark get my intel even when i had 20 tpa and he had only 8,. so high tpa is by no means a replacement for def specs
Some guy is going to be away for several weeks and i might just pay the tokens so that he sits instead of going to vacations and i will try and do the 1000 acres 100% homes, the problem is not making it, because it will not take more than 1 week , its worth it to see if a province like that can survive by itself or is it a kingdom effort?
lolwut? you'd peasant kill yourself in about 24 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by gojete
thought I heard silly arguements, and you are trying to argue a theory. Fine to practice them OOW and in ghettos but you will have no chance in organised kingdoms and wars. You could build up 2mil bushels in plunders but have that stolen in war first thing and vermin cast and you will be starving very quickly.
2. with the kinds of builds you are suggesting and the so called sciences you will have, you will be just flat out tasty for a bird of prey like myself that likes to hit people like you. I prefer to attack provences that are to high or 2 low in n/w they tend to be the most juicy for different reasons.
say you did have 99opa, but it means nothing if it equates to being only 33opnw.
so the numbers you say for 1000 acres
and your mod ppa is 38
you use 33elites per acres
homes would be 55000nw
pessies would be 5000nw
elites would be 214500nw
total n/w = 274500
Total Offence = 264000 (264opa, .96opnw)
Total Defence = 99000 (99dpa, .36dpnw all elites home)
Running 274.5nwpa not including sciences
Your running an economy that is very very brittle and couldnt handle being in a war for very long, if at all.
Most people base there builds about being in war, not for an oow ghetto and require a high level of activity to maintain let alone try and build it up.
Post an SoT gojete and we'll believe you. I didn't even bother reading your posts!