Who knows we have gone oop in top 10 before, so who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
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Who knows we have gone oop in top 10 before, so who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
It's basic math, just like you said. You are destroying your own acres, that keeps you smaller than kingdoms that don't destroy their own acres, lol.
Imo intra kd razeing should destroy all honor on that province! =)
Erm...no. Things that are better require more effort. That's just a basic fact of life. You want better stuff? Go earn more money and buy it. You want to war Rage? Well then you're going to have to put in more effort than you would if you're warring WeHurt (no offense to WeHurt).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Catching 150 of these...
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumbla...7904zyPf05.jpg
Is not the same as catching this
http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thu...at-humans.jpeg
No matter how hard the little fish might fight.
Put down your sappling, get a real rod, and catch some real fish before you call yourself a fisherman.
I would like to add to my earlier point that I don't believe we would win the landcrown if we tried. It's a different playstyle, we can do the warring part which is a prerequisite but I'm sure there are many other skills needed for players and mainly for leaders to win. Sorry cutecats :) As our kd name states - we're a good ghetto and we play to have fun, in a way we like :)
Sidenote: You said in 3-4 posts here Dharan that activity is what matters to war top. I disagree. Most enemies we face (definitely every kd last age but also several lower level kd's) is more active than us but they lack in skills and strategy or teamwork. With an acceptable level of activity, 1) overall strategy and 2) either individual player skill or having leaders on to guide every action 24/7 becomes more important. 1) for doing the right things over time, and 2) to optimize every situation and get flexibility to use every mistake the enemy do.
Refusing to try is more of a failure than trying and coming up short.
we're not refusing to try, we're simply stating our disinterest in the mere thought of ever competing for crowns.
So you fail? =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...5#post15204395
How has no one attained a back to back in the past 20 ages is mind boggling in such a water down game.
Palem, now go back and read my other post again. I can merge them if you would like. The first one states we have no wish to do this. Based on that someone will say 'it's all an excuse for that you cannot do it'. Sure. The second one is about probably not being able to, to which the answer is then "you should try even if you don't want it cause I want you to want it"? And this from the person who leads the faery kd?
Now, let's not be selfish! I know everyone wants to talk about Cats - but let's focus on the 353 other kd's in this game that isn't top 5 (which apparently is the only good kd's in the game), Simians or Cats. If the purpose of the thread is to find way's to improve their willingness (and chances) to compete, I applaud the thread!
Why the interest of Cats and Simians.
Everyone wants to see Simians raped and defeated and absalom and friends win.
Let us play as we choose ourselfs. I find our playing style aggressive and as far from boring as it gets. I like messing about with the ones that rule this server. If it had not been absalom it had been someone else. You need to fight the best and the strongest. What else is there to play for? Nothing imo.
umQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
i've seen amazing activity from balance, PoD and a couple of other "Ghettos" Warring Better kds=/=waring kds who are great at land whoring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
My kd even grew to "war", had my sites set on what i'd hope would be FUN wars with targets like Old school/Abs/pulse/simians/cats. Pulse didnt want to war and i can respect that, its not fun to get a war forced on you. But then u consider Cats stayed small because
and my hours of diplomacy just lead to missing any chance with rage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
Since
whoring >>waring for land gains,
wpa is impossible to pump if u grow 30-40% which instantly leads to a significant disadvantage, and
that stupid explore formula means if u didnt attack/explore just right u'll never catch up
it boils down to
Either way i get sick of the need more good kds up top comments if u want the "top" to be the best waring kds then suggest the entire game get radically altered to do that. Would require things like fixed science, set-able wpa/tpa, no whoring. Otherwise game is fun, those who think waring is fun have plenty of good competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
+1 persain.
we play our game. they play theirs. stop trying to force us to interact when we don't want to.
You don't need to compete for a crown. Grow larger and challenge better kds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddybearSTHLM
Yes. However my lack of success has nothing to do with whether or not I'm right.Quote:
Originally Posted by fwordz
Again, you don't need to crown. War better kds. Do better in general. My sights aren't necessarily on ghetto cats or Simians, or anyone in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
they do war better kds already palem. all that is left are the whores who wont war anyway because it slows them down..
Accept that warring doesn't slow kds down now. It's a very useful tool for growth.
@ Persain - there's more to the game than activity. You like to quote Elurin so let me quote one too
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
Those really active ghettos are never going to get better until they challenge themselves and learn better tactics.
Personally I agree now whether his statements are ironic or not I believe this game is setup to be competitive. Granted I've only been playing for little over a year and do not know really all that much but enough that when I play in my ghetto kds I can do my thing :). I do wish more people seemed to want to be chart Toppers. Honestly I enjoy setting my alarm to make an attack its what makes this game fun.
The "best" kds crown though palem. Once they pull away theres literally no reason to gather land. For example i took the honor bonus on my last win because honor is valuable and i dont feel like wasteing 3 weeks to try to catch up with hoh only to get power played by sanc. There's literally no difference in skill while my kd sits at #5 in land v us at 56th in land. We're the same kd, the only reason we got big is to war kds who typical sit up big. We got pewpew, will mostly likely catch mercy late age if they ever recover. But its not like either kd is magically better than Freeakstyle because they sit on more land, Freeakstyle fought us 2 ages ago 1 man up 25v24 for 14-15 day war to a draw end of age are they significantly worse because the war was at 35 on the land/nw chart then a kd we can beat by min time whose siting at 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
agreed so why cant i learn from them and teach them by waring them instead of going all out waring top 5. one of the most interesting wars i had was against a ghetto we crushed min time oop. they nearly explored an UB in war untill we caught them. Next age btw both CanWe and my own kd used that same strategy and won our oop wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Freeakstyle, Ghetto Cats, Rage, Simians, TFC, Sanc, HoH, Beastblood, EVERYONE
^They can all improve and get better, some more than others. What stops them is all of their BS excuses and their fear of losing. They lose EVERY AGE*, whether they want to admit it or not.
*exception of the crown winner
Palem, Simians has like a 50% win ratio. But you dont see us backing down from fights no matter who they are or if we are outnumbered. We search to war the best dont run from it. I dont care if we win or if we lose. Were just trying our best to compete vs those that think they always win at everything they do. Somehow most of this server seem to think t5 is godlike KDs. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
You had your hostile meter maxed out with a kd half your size earlier this age. That is not the "best" competition.
Try winning 60% of your wars. Then 75%. Then 80%.
Improve.
We did that because another KD double hostiled our allies. There is nothing in this world that would have stopped us from hitting them. They could have been double our size or half our size. Did not really matter. Your just seeing the obvious. Simians hostile to a kd half thier size. There is no bonus vs a KD half the size of us. Infact the smaller KD has many advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Allies and excuses. At least with Abs this is a winning combo.
If your allies force you into losing situation, get new allies.
Want more kingdoms to compete? Fix the game. It sucks for new players/kingdoms at the moment and everyone is too blind to see it. Having new players land in the worst kingdoms available where their provinces are raped by slightly less sucky kingdoms simply because they are in a kingdom that can't protect them is not the way to attract new players to the game. Any player, how bad or good, will suck when landing in a ghetto and shine when playing in a top 10 kingdom, the experiences are so different they are beyond comparison.
Also, the whole "but we aren't active and don't demand 24/7 activity" ruse, is nothing more than that, a ruse, or maybe a deliberate pretense to claiming a "real life". In the top kingdoms most players can get online any time of the day/night. That their provs claim to do so voluntary (peer pressure works wonders) doesn't change the fact that the level of activity in the top is rather intense. Lesser active kds are only in the top because they're allowed to be. Still nothing wrong with that, in a similar fashion top sport also requires top activity, nothing wrong with the athletes that train hardest being the best, same with utopia, the more you put into it, the more you get out.
However, I don't think top competition is what the game needs, all it will lead to is keeping the same maybe 500 players (20 kds) entertained. Utopia should be a rewarding experience for those other players as well. The answer to, for example, the whole landdrop debate shouldn't be "You must get big, if you can't get big you SUCK" it might be valid that those kingdoms suck from a top kd perspective, but that is irrelevant to those kingdoms; from their own perspective these kingdoms have no way in hell to preserve their acres, so the option they get is lose honor landdropping, or be fed on by better/pumped/more ready kingdoms while taking well over a week (or worse, weeks) to build up, either way they get weaker/punished for doing well in war, it's plain weird. Simply getting the bigs to be small would only take the 4 days eow protection. That really is a sucky choice to give. (true, there was abuse as well, but that could have been dealt with in another way)
But even that is minor to the real problem i started this post with. Currently the gap between the have (kds that have 20 (yeah, plenty kds keep 20 players it seems) to 25 reliable players) and have nots (kds with a solid core of 10 to 15 players, desperately waiting for fresh blood) is gigantic. New players tend to land in the have not kds, they are confronted with the worst that the game has to offer without any guidance or assistance from the game or game mechanics.
Bottom line: The game will die not because it doesn't cater enough to the top, it'll die because the top will be all that's left while time passes by. Not everyone can afford to be a top "athlete", for some the game is just a means to pass time. The game is setup great for casual play like that (apart from lacking guidance and such, at its base logging in a few minutes during the day is enough), the game (mechanics) just got perverted (landdropping is such a perversion) as the majority of the players are hardcore athletes willing to go to extremes to squeez out those few percentiles of better performance, making the game not very enjoyable for those lost casual souls. I feel a full reshuffle of kingdoms/provinces would work wonders. I also know this would be impossible as most of the kingdoms are established in one way or another, no one wants to lose their friends to a reshuffle, and one way or another, people will trade back to play together.
Palem, i think the owners of the game have a role in this, its not just about the old kds being lazy and sucking. Its more about in the old days, this game had 40 islands 40 kds, 70k players. it has 7.5k now.
The owners need to MARKET the game more. (Who here plays ******, i do not play it, but do they have more players than here?)
Where did all the 63k people go? Im sure they did not all quit the game because they all grew up and RL kicked in, some must have lost interest in the game after the company change, due to policies and management perspectives.
If jolt wants to make the game a bit more competitive they can do it by several means (1) Marketing (2) Promotions (3) Building a kd from scratch, yes might be fore free (If its for one age) (4) Game Offers/Promotions/Packages
Im in a kd that has players who actually do not want to play they make provinces, explore 200 acres and go inactive after, and u have to wait for 10 days for their damn province to go away. The company management is ridiculous.
I totally agree with the issue of the game is becoming so damn lame, heck, ive never heard of kingdoms that are in top 15, who grow newb style and win newb wars, and then get raped by experienced kds, where is the fun?
and i do have to agree on the fact of your 25 faery kingdom isnt really adding much to the game, just exploring/dicing? not even sure what you are doing, but i am sure u could have added a bit more fun to the game if u were 7 tms and 18 attackers or whatever, at least its more competitive in the tops for you and others.
They should make the game more competitive for players who are good who play in ghettos and who do not have the chance to join big kds, either because no "top notch, utopian star" did not pick them up or discover their skills.
They should bring back kd nw difference gains and province nw difference gains. That age rocked, was competitive for a ghetto with two big provinces, who could actually "GAIN" on a top kd in a fight.
awwwww but the abs KD's did not like that migz because when they hit down on KDs less than 20% of their NW they got owned and it made their inner children cry.
Get rid of honor and I'll grow, am sure a lot of kds would do the same. The fact that losing a war = nerf you for the rest of age because you don't have those marquis to back you up in future wars is what makes a lot of kingdom stay small imho. Winning shouldn't help you win more with a stats indepedent to land. Science/credits is ok since you invest time in war which could be used pumping, but honor won/loss bring bonuses that are so important no one want to fight a 80k+ honor with 50k.. They have the upper hand prewar no matter what happens. Honor is stronger than land if you are not at the top of the food chain or having loads of naps
@ Yadda & Migz - This isn't a matter of saving/reviving the game. There's enough kds around RIGHT NOW for it to not be an absolute snooze zone. Those issues (and I do agree those are issues) are a separate matter. The kds that ARE around don't do nearly enough in the ways of challenging themselves to improve. They're content just sitting around being bad kds that contribute nothing.
And Migz, TFC doesn't really add much in terms of upping the in-game competition other than if a kd tried to farm us, they don't crown. If the game would be cool and let faeries be attackers, maybe we could make a nice run for it, although with our personnel, activity, and general lack of coordination, prolly not lol. Either way, TFC was my own personal project but it's certainly not my last stint in the game. When I'm done with TFC I'll make a "real" kd and perhaps that will be crown material. Only time will tell.
maybe the trolling are scaring people away from being big ... =)
I think there are some really fun and competitive wars around the 90th - 20th NW ranked kingdoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Oh, and I didn't read most of the replies, so don't mind me if I'm repeating something.
There wasn't 63k more. There were considerably more multies and scripted provinces.
I thought you said warar harder targets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
dont worry palem .. when our kd is fixed well nock all of those top kds off their pedastals
There are only a handful of people who are really good at the game at the top levels. They got good by playing the game for an absurd amount of time (Rage, Pulse and HoH all have leaders who have played the game for something like 13 years, sanctuary's leader hasn't played as long but has played nonstop for something like 5-7 years).
Kingdoms who try to compete against that usually lose at the start and losing is discouraging. Thats why they end up ghetto warring or running strategies that don't allow them a chance to fight at the top.
I just spent 30mins reading the majority of the replies to the initial post and most of it was, "we are better then you" or "10 ages ago this kd triple crowned" or "politics this politics that". Honestly it was a waste of my time. There were a few posts that were actually on topic that gave me some renewed hope for this game. I am currently in a kd that ended up a lot bigger than we had intended at the beginning of the age. We didn't really set a goal for our selves when we started out but we knew we wanted to be as active as possible and keep everyone in our kd involved in the game. Four of our players left right at the beginning of the age knocking us down to 21 players, managed to get 1 decent recruit thus far in the age but that's it. From our prospective its not that we don't want to or that we lack the skill(in my opinion) it's the politics of being in the top 10. For some people it's just not worth it. Basically to become a top 10 contender these days you need to have some way to defend against 5+ kds at a time all trying to knock you back down. This is extremely difficult to do with out having a pre-arranged alliance all heading to the top 10 at the same time. I am not saying it cannot be done solo im just saying if you are going solo you damn well better have 25 experienced and dedicated players.
Now I am getting off topic my self. Any ways the thing i like most about utopia is the fact that regardless of the ranking group you are in (excluding the top 10), you can generally find another kingdom who just wants to duke it out and have a good old fashion war. At the end of the day that is what keeps me entertained in the game so if going into the top 10 means sitting for days on end or "letting" kds wave you while you wave another kd while possibly agreeing to terms with a third kd about a war that MIGHT happen then you can count me out.
Just the two cents from one of the "little guys".
No offense directed to any of the kingdoms or players out there just thought some input from a younger and evolving kd might be welcomed.
sorry for the lack of paragraphs makes for a hard read.
I dont see how you can go around talking smack about other kds while yourself aint doing nothing to to promote your initial post. Its not the game that should change its you who should change the kingdom, as long as you do your own **** and dont try to compete you shouldnt talk about what other people should do.Quote:
If the game would be cool and let faeries be attackers, maybe we could make a nice run for it, although with our personnel, activity, and general lack of coordination, prolly not lol. Either way, TFC was my own personal project but it's certainly not my last stint in the game. When I'm done with TFC I'll make a "real" kd and perhaps that will be crown material. Only time will tell.
I just read the first page.
I will read page 2 and so on later but I would guess its just more of the exchange between korp et al and Palem bashing.
Quick point I want to make is that personally the main issue I think is the Utopia itself does not have that many players left.
I don't even see any banners of it anymore in any website I visit that promotes it. Websites now are clogged with these MMOs and whatever Facebook games available around.
So I think the priority is growing the community again.
P.S. Kinda hard considering most teenagers and young adults now rarely play browser based games like Utopia, not like during our generation when we were the young adults and Utopia type of games are the popular types.
Like you, everyone plays for fun. Some people have fun in a different way than making 25 faeries, Shocking concept I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Start with your own kingdom instead of pointing fingers at others?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
No-one says there are no good kingdoms outside top10. There are... they're just being challenged to grow instead of staying small all age.Quote:
Originally Posted by cRs
If you take a look at the warwin charts, I'm pretty confident that the majority of the top warwin kingdoms aren't exceptionally good, they're just warring weaker opponents most of the time.
As for your "we dont want to sit for 10 days to prepare".. we're closing in on week 7 and the highest ranked warwin kingdoms have only 4 wars. If you look at say PewPew in top10, they've had 5 already. You can play top10 and have lots of wars, you just need to do it and not play chicken in the 50-100 ranks.
Another note; what does your 10 day prep come from? Are you misled by the reports from last age about these top wars that took several days to prepare for? You can't really use the top wars as an average for all wars.