Game Needs More Good kds Competing

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Originally Posted by Retailer

Well i do know that leading @ higher levels takes alot of time and can be stressful even.
But Really?

If so it just emphasizes my point that it aint all fun and stuff up at the top.

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I wouldnt take anything octo says seriously :)

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Originally Posted by Kern

Just take a look at the warwins chart: The FIRST one that's even vaguely recognizable to me is SPGC at #21, then Divinity at #50 and Pewpew at #55. Or maybe I'm just uninformed. Of the three, the impression I get here is that SPGC's not even considered "top" tier material alongside the likes of the Abs 3+1 gang.

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you're right, we're not top tier material, we usually just end up in t10 because we never landdrop, we grow the rest of the kd up after wars, and we arent afraid to grow oow if we have better targets in sight. Also, war wins chart is kinda silly, there is no way SPGC could ever compete for that, we have no way to get as many wars in an age as is required to win the chart.

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Originally Posted by Palem

NW/Land is already roughly a representation of skill, with some exceptions. The cream rises to the top. Look at the kitties. They USUALLY have a nice ending on the charts. They never really end the age "small". The same is true for other good warring kds. If you just mix in some actual whoring then you're even larger and make a bigger splash.

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Don't confuse not landdropping and not being afraid to grow for wars with ability to whore.



Palem: I kinda agree with OP that people should try and improve and expand their game moar. Far too many kds just stick around down in the ghetto warring, because they think if they dont landdrop they will lose next war, or get in range of too scary kds. An arguement in my old about this was that landdropping quickens the recovery time, which i completely disagreed with, I think it is silly to landdrop with 4 days eowcf. You can come oow practically war ready almost all the time, even with exploring alot in eowcf (ok maybe not wpa-wise but still).

That the game needs to improve is something I've thought about as well. IMO there are way too many kds that are afraid to do something new, afraid to war out of range or with their setup slightly unbalanced acre-wise. They never try to overcome any obstacles, they keep on warring the same way, rather turn down fights they are not sure they can win and they want all advantages on their side.

I dont think all kds should try to whore, they just need to challenge themselves more!

I've done enough ghetto diplo and seen my monarchs do enough ghetto diplo to know most kds are cowards.

kd1: "can has warar?"
kd2: "hmmm yes maybe! BUT, you has a scary orc that can make a hit on a faery! :o we no likes, so here's the deal: you give us button in 72h so we can has prepare even though we are at 170 nwpa average now, after which we will sit and op you for 24h before pressing button. You can make no more hits on us in the meantime or we will call in our big and mighty alliance and cry "foul play!" to them see!

We also want your 10 biggest provs to release down to 1 tpa, so we can steal our dragfon from there. And last but not least, you no can has hittles on our non-attacklers! sounds fair? cause, y'know, you're 2% bigger than us and we find that to be a very unfair advantage see."
kd1: "okay....."
kd2: "oh! btw, we are also gonna be fortified when you wave us."


so meh....hope you like my slightly exxagerated impersonation above :P. I posted it in lolcattish because everything is better in lolcattish! Not to say that there arent kds who want a challenge, there are and kudos to them! I'm just tired of having to give away all the advantages all the time to get a war.

I could make up a convo of what's happened after you wave someone and they wuzzy out for different reasons but I dont feel like it, use your imagination.

NOTE: I am only a silly little peon in SPGC, these are my own thoughts. I used to comonarch a kd before SPGC, so I've encountered some douchebags and some ghetto monarchs.

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Originally Posted by Ruukis

This thread like 1000000000000 threads same type as this.

<tl;dr>
Top5: learn to play, come compete top, its challenging and much more rewarding
Warring KDs: lol no, its not
Top5: Well do as you wish, but dont whine while we want to grow
Warring KDs: lol no, warring takes skill more and we want to play more casually, pls dont bottom feed on us.
</tl;dr>

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Well yeah actually youre wrong on this. I am currently in the top5. Not saying it takes mroe skill to war. Im just saying its more fun. And while YES it is more challenging to be big. The rewards so far is not worth it :-)

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Originally Posted by Retailer

Well yeah actually youre wrong on this. I am currently in the top5. Not saying it takes mroe skill to war. Im just saying its more fun. And while YES it is more challenging to be big. The rewards so far is not worth it :-)

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Ruukis pretty much has it spot on. I think the 'rewards' depend on the kingdom not the individual.

whether people are playing to win or not, the mathematically correct play - barring diplo weirdness like a planned early war - is to grow out as large as reasonable if you have any kind of organization, and suck up waves from stronger kingdoms when they happen. not even a question of whether people have the skill to win - when 90% of the server stays ridiculously small, whatever tactical advantage kingdoms have from staying small is negated and success is purely a measure of who has more activity. the really lame war kingdoms just somehow "happen" to war 20 province ghettoes so meh.

@Teddybear - THANK YOU. I'm glad the point of this hasn't been lost to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Retailer

Well yeah actually youre wrong on this. I am currently in the top5. Not saying it takes mroe skill to war. Im just saying its more fun. And while YES it is more challenging to be big. The rewards so far is not worth it :-)

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There is only 1 reward competing on top and it is getting a crown :)

Which kd has won most crowns in total?

Counting province crowns, Rage with 14. I haven't looked up the battlefields crowns yet though.

The Utopian Industry actually measures crowns by each individual player to better account for mergers and kingdoms that change names or leaderships. Following this method, you find that the greatest legacy of success springs from Pansies (the only kingdom to ever b2b2b).

Is this amount of crowns held by players at time of final crowning age or can we retroactively add crowns to that kd based on performance after last crown gained while in that kd? Latter might better recognize talent and power of mentorship.

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Originally Posted by octobrev

We won last age exactly as Anri requested after he warred the ghetto we were idling in. We can't put on these spectacle kingdoms every single age as it really takes a lot out of us mentally and emotionally. Some of the players at our level even see sports therapists to help manage the stress.

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This. It's very time consuming to fight against the strongest kingdoms all the time. You can't really compare a war kingdom's war-history throughout an age with like a streak we had last age.
I can also survive age after age without much issues by fighting 2-3 ghetto's and then 2-3 war kingdoms.

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Originally Posted by Persain

I dont disagree and if every kd got reset to fight at 40k acres after each war with either any acre distributions they want or everyone at 1k acres those 3 kds would probably be the top 3 "war" kds in the game. But i personally think a few kds i've played against would/could beat them.

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And which are those kingdoms?
Beating a kingdom on a blue monday is something different as to be able to beat them every fight (not necessarily meaning you would win all of them though!). If you fight 10 times and win 5, you're pretty equal. If you fight 10 times and win 1, you've just caught them on a blue monday imo.

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Originally Posted by Palem

We wouldn't war anyone? We're happy to war people. Just be prepared for a long hostile. We aren't going to war you until you're weakened to a point that we think we can win. If you wave us we aren't just going to blindly declare and then get stomped by people. That's not playing passively, that's playing stupid and totally ignoring your kds strengths and weaknesses.

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Even if you would hostile us for 3 months you would still loose. 25 faeries simply are not capable of beating a true topkingdom or the true warring kingdoms. Heck, I'd be surprised if you'd beat a mediocre kingdom.

You're free to prove me wrong though. However, I'm guessing you'll reside with your "TFC is just a fun kingdom" excuse once more so I doubt you'll ever prove me wrong ;p

Again, if you want to point fingers at others to improve, I suggest you start with improving your own silly setup before you continue to harass other kingdoms with your bull****.

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Originally Posted by prot

Even if you would hostile us for 3 months you would still loose. 25 faeries simply are not capable of beating a true topkingdom or the true warring kingdoms. Heck, I'd be surprised if you'd beat a mediocre kingdom.

You're free to prove me wrong though. However, I'm guessing you'll reside with your "TFC is just a fun kingdom" excuse once more so I doubt you'll ever prove me wrong ;p

Again, if you want to point fingers at others to improve, I suggest you start with improving your own silly setup before you continue to harass other kingdoms with your bull****.

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We might lose, we might not. If I think there's a reasonable shot at winning then we'll declare. I'm just fine losing as war as long as we actually try and give it our best. And that's not bull****. That's a proven fact.

And again, me improving my kd (which I am) has nothing to do with others needing to improve theirs. I don't need to be a basketball expert, or even associated with the NBA, to tell you that the Washington Wizards suck and need vast improvement. Your name is only 4 letters long, so you clearly have no idea what the people who have 5 letter names are talking about.

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Originally Posted by prot

Beating a kingdom on a blue monday is something different as to be able to beat them every fight (not necessarily meaning you would win all of them though!). If you fight 10 times and win 5, you're pretty equal. If you fight 10 times and win 1, you've just caught them on a blue monday imo.

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if you only fight once, which side does that fall into? Makes it hard when the top kds and war kds rarely interact on even terms.

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Originally Posted by Palem

We might lose, we might not. If I think there's a reasonable shot at winning then we'll declare. I'm just fine losing as war as long as we actually try and give it our best. And that's not bull****. That's a proven fact.

And again, me improving my kd (which I am) has nothing to do with others needing to improve theirs.

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Palem, my only criticism is the manor in which u suggest they need improvement. You post wasn't a positive one. While i agree all kds should 100% strive to improve over time your suggestions on how they should improve isnt the path to improvement every body wants to take. If your initial suggestions on how to improve are to be taken exactly the best way to force that type of improvement is through mechanism changes not attitudes

don't shoot the messenger. if you have to resort to hating on Palem to discredit his message, then that's getting rather defensive.

point is, why hasnt there been a back to back crown winner yet, when it should happen once every 10 ages? My feeling is because no kingdom is truly that dominant anymore, and everyone is equally bad. I'd also suspect that there is not enough targets for people to overcome a bad conflict. Hence, people should grow to at least add to the variety of options up top.

The way I read this thread is more Palem asking the community how to bring back the land/nw crown back to something that is relevant to the community.

It used to be the #1 thing KD's used to aim for and now it longer is, not only that, but 95% of the server don't care about acres, all they care about is war/ww. Since there is a WW chart, people now have something to aim for and #1 is attainable for almost everyone (15 prov KD's could win more wars than the best KD out there).

So instead of trying to go for the Acres/nw crown, KD's often just grow somewhat slowly, pump and war to have the most wars, and WW. It used to be that best KD's were the ones that were the biggest because we didn't have a ww chart to compare other war kingdoms. Warring was actually a way to grow (or lower the one higher/lower than you in the rankings) it's now a way to get a WW and go up the WW chart. So doesn't matter anymore.

There are two ways of bringing back some competition in the Acres/NW category, Get rid of the WW chart or create a new chart (which would combine all 4 charts as stated before in this thread)

Then Abs would be on top, but ppl would challenge to be in ... top 10, top 25, top 50, top 100 ... etc... They could no longer rely on WW as a goal. Is that the best for the game? who knows... maybe ppl wouldn't want to compete for top 100... but would rather delete ... I don't know...

that was my 2 cents... feel free to flame