PewPew vs AMA

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Originally Posted by Proteus

People explore in war too. I've explored in a hostile before myself. It doesn't mean you arent in hostile, some provinces in hostile are unbreakable and you explore them as part of your strategy. Doesnt surprise me because most of your posts in forums show a lack of basic understanding and are merely trash talk.

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Exploring up cows in a hostile with a KD out of declare range and an open CF is fairly lame if it means the Kd who is waiting to war you has 0 chance to win war. AMA attempted to do this in their hostile with sanctuary when they back to backed them :P

Interestingly he was exploring up large halfers then too :p

Seems pew gave the extra notice so all appears fair. AMA got full notice duration.

Also of note. AMA and Jerks would both be in much better shape had they given into my moderation. A reminder to other top kingdoms an excellent mediator is available.

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Originally Posted by Mike^^

lotsa respect to pewpew, rare to see that kinda spotmanship in UT now days.

Huge props from here (to people that dident know pewpew gave ama 24 houers more)

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For begin none from pew contact us and told they give any extra time.
Second its PR BS now. Its clear we burned our income with draft and we cant produce more gold. Extra time was useful from begin when we asked. Now its another BS.

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Originally Posted by Mike^^

lotsa respect to pewpew, rare to see that kinda spotmanship in UT now days.

Huge props from here (to people that dident know pewpew gave ama 24 houers more)

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Unless there wasn't any no notice during hostile etc clause between PewPew and AMA you're calling dealbreaking good sportsmanship...
A conflict doesn't just end because Jerks run to arranged war, it ends when both sides agree on terms and CF. So regardless of which notice is correct (48h or 72h) PewPew did dealbreak if there is a no notice during hostile etc, if there is no such clause then AMA has been extremely clumsy which I sorta doubt because whatever else you may say about AMA they're rarely that careless about diplomacy.

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Originally Posted by tetley

To me it's clear that AMA had long since reached the point where they would RATHER be in hostile than have the conflict over, because it was allowing them to explore large amounts and claim hostile protection. Even by the time we delivered our last hit, there wasn't much of a relevant battle happening at all anymore...

Certainly none of these things on their own end the conflict, but I think all taken together the balance tips towards the hostile being over? And if not permanently over, then at least on a temporary hold, the sort of which allows a notice to be served...

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Lets not forget that it was you who refused a ridiculously cheap CF deal, you had every chance to end this and chose not to, therefore conflict is valid until a deal is made, AMA wasn't being unreasonable here, you were. If they don't want to CF until your smallest is 70% of their biggest then that's your stupidity, you could have ended this before it even began. Therefore you running is not a valid end to the conflict, if they had outright refused to cf you after war or given you some ridiculous demand of 50% acres then the situation would have been completely different but they gave you an offer that was ridiculously cheap by any standard.

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Originally Posted by DonJuan

So do you support AMA if they were hitting Jerks OOW because they are still considered "hostile"?

Even though Jerks's successfully ran away vs AMA?

Seems like you condone one "bully tactic" to defend another one...double standards!!

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We trade hits for 6 days and ppl hit from his work too. Its easy to miss kd you retal war for 1 week run in war. Its was 1 hit only.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

Unless there wasn't any no notice during hostile etc clause between PewPew and AMA you're calling dealbreaking good sportsmanship...
A conflict doesn't just end because Jerks run to arranged war, it ends when both sides agree on terms and CF. So regardless of which notice is correct (48h or 72h) PewPew did dealbreak if there is a no notice during hostile etc, if there is no such clause then AMA has been extremely clumsy which I sorta doubt because whatever else you may say about AMA they're rarely that careless about diplomacy.

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Thats just stupid, if one part of the conflict its not avaiable its no longer an active hostile situation.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Thats just stupid, if one part of the conflict its not avaiable its no longer an active hostile situation.

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If conflict started before the war started then there still is a conflict because running shouldn't be an acceptable end of conflict if the running party actually had a reasonable chance to end the conflict which jerks totally did according to what Elit claims he offered and it's been acknowledged by Tetley that that deal was actually offered. Running is just stupid and shouldn't be seen as the end of a conflict unless the running party were never given any chance to take a reasonable way out, Jerks were given a ridiculously cheap way out so until both parties can agree to a deal the conflict should still be considered to be ongoing.

Jerks refused a reasonable deal so they lost any right to suddenly decide that conflict is over.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Thats just stupid, if one part of the conflict its not avaiable its no longer an active hostile situation.

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Notice was served on: July 7 of YR6 PewPew 48hrs Notice AMA (pew) has begun a Emerald Dragon project against
Jerks entered in war on: July 9 of YR6 OFF WORLD () has declared WAR with our kingdom!

So its sure break del for no notice in hostile/war/post war. To be more precise from deal terms:
[23:00] <Petrified> can't notice into/from war/eowcf/hostile?
[23:00] <Elit> yes no lame notices
[23:00] <Petrified> okay deal

If this is not lame notice what is...

I moved that notice 2 hours to when Jerks entered their war 32hrs ago, meaning that u got 74 hours from original notice was given

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Originally Posted by Binar

I moved that notice 2 hours to when Jerks entered their war 32hrs ago, meaning that u got 74 hours from original notice was given

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Do you have logs inform us you move notice 2h later and its 72h from time we talked or you just decide it now when left 7h from official notice you gave us?

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Originally Posted by Binar

I moved that notice 2 hours to when Jerks entered their war 32hrs ago, meaning that u got 74 hours from original notice was given

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Because Jerks refused a reasonable deal it still means you tried to notice into ongoing conflict, hence dealbreak according to the parts Elit has posted about deal.
Jerks had every chance to end the conflict, they didn't so they don't get to decide when conflict is over by running.

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Originally Posted by Elit

We trade hits for 6 days and ppl hit from his work too. Its easy to miss kd you retal war for 1 week run in war. Its was 1 hit only.

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For sure...I'm not at all saying there was any OOW hits either since I haven't seen any news myself.

I was just talking in principle...since usually the consensus of a hostile is continuous attacks (from either/both sides?)...and if Jerks had run into another war...they could not have been engaging AMA in their hostile while warring their current enemy.

Unless they were but then again I have no news logs so this is more of a ponder than a question

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Originally Posted by Proteus

And you are right, I do have bias - I am biased towards playing by established standards in the top which doesn't include ****playing unprovoked to such an extent. Until pewpew is gbed and punished properly they will keep playing this way, this is a lesson to all you guys who want to compete for land properly and fairly.

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Forcing a b2b on a kd that's a tad bigger than half your size because they max gained before they surrendered is the proper and fair way to compete for the land crown?

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Originally Posted by DonJuan

For sure...I'm not at all saying there was any OOW hits either since I haven't seen any news myself.

I was just talking in principle
...since usually the consensus of a hostile is continuous attacks (from either/both sides?)...and if Jerks had run into another war...they could not have been engaging AMA in their hostile while warring their current enemy.

Unless they were but then again I have no news logs so this is more of a ponder than a question

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Jerks run in another war dont fix our relation when we dont have deal so we still have "hostile relations" but same time its not ingame hostile till they leave his war so area are shady. If pew pew gave 72h notice after jerks run in war will be vulture not deal break. Big difference.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yes there was an communication error where PewPew though fighting had ended on July 7th, the notice should had been given on July 9th and PewPew have acknowledge that and are counting the notice from July 9th.

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^^^

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Originally Posted by Elit

Do you have logs inform us you move notice 2h later and its 72h from time we talked or you just decide it now when left 7h from official notice you gave us?

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and our diplo talks were a failboat cause of your silly demands of EoA CF for 0 acres or 1 week to prep

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Originally Posted by Binar

^^^



and our diplo talks were a failboat cause of your silly demands of EoA CF for 0 acres or 1 week to prep

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Dont have any logs with Shai, or new ingame msg with change notice date or new dragon restart in our news paper.

and yes you still can get eoa for 0 acres or we can war after 1 week prep. Its good and fair offers.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

A hostile is over the moment both hostile kingdoms AGREE TO END HOSTILITIES. Its a bi-lateral decision, not a uni-lateral one.

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Im hostile with pewpew....no one can notice them. i shall never agree to end hostilities so no one touch em ;)

spout your nonsense somewhere else.

And my offer still stands Elit: 3 weeks CF for 17% of your acres

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Originally Posted by Persain

Im hostile with pewpew....no one can notice them. i shall never agree to end hostilities so no one touch em ;)

spout your nonsense somewhere else.

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So pew pew double deal break for send from hostile to another hostile notice. Binar really play it big one!

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Originally Posted by Binar

And my offer still stands Elit: 3 weeks CF for 17% of your acres

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Dont really care for acres its for your rude attitude to me. i didn't sleep well last night :(

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Originally Posted by Elit

So pew pew double deal break for send from hostile to another hostile notice. Binar really play it big one!


Dont really care for acres its for your rude attitude to me. i didn't sleep well last night :(

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Cello started it, as I told you since the start of this: Cello is to blame

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Originally Posted by Persain

Im hostile with pewpew....no one can notice them. i shall never agree to end hostilities so no one touch em ;)

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I've been hostile with AMA since age 56. Hostile went to EoA and I never agreed on a resolution.

I demand acres for everyone deal breaking in our hostile!

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Originally Posted by Binar

Cello started it, as I told you since the start of this: Cello is to blame

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Can you update me wen your notice expire. I, kinda lost from all Palem spam in forum.

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Originally Posted by Elit

Can you update me wen your notice expire. I, kinda lost from all Palem spam in forum.

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Next hostile date: March 11th, YR7 - 1day 10hrs 16mins 41secs (35 Ticks)

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Originally Posted by Binar

Next hostile date: March 11th, YR7 - 1day 10hrs 16mins 41secs (35 Ticks)

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are you sure its march 11 not march 9? Dont want another miscommunication and get waved :P

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Originally Posted by Elit

are you sure its march 11 not march 9? Dont want another miscommunication and get waved :P

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Yes Iam sure :)

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Originally Posted by Palem

Forcing a b2b on a kd that's a tad bigger than half your size because they max gained before they surrendered is the proper and fair way to compete for the land crown?

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Since you seem to be too busy to verify facts in between all your post I went to over to that old AMA/Jerks thread.

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Originally Posted by AMA/JERKS

** The kingdom of A:MA **
Total land exchanged: +1,476 (117/106)

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That was the outcome of first war which you called "AMA farming Jerks" in some earlier post. I don't have exact size after that but "a tad bigger than half your size" is ridiculously off the mark.

Sorry I'm so mean again, I don't want to. You're pushing me. :(((

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Originally Posted by tommyb

sorry i'm so mean again, i don't want to. You're pushing me. :(((

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stop making me hit you!

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Originally Posted by TommyB

Since you seem to be too busy to verify facts in between all your post I went to over to that old AMA/Jerks thread.



That was the outcome of first war which you called "AMA farming Jerks" in some earlier post. I don't have exact size after that but "a tad bigger than half your size" is ridiculously off the mark.

Sorry I'm so mean again, I don't want to. You're pushing me. :(((

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Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad
War only:
** The kingdom of A:MA **
Total land exchanged: +2,887 (187/162)

War+Hostile:
** The kingdom of A:MA **
Total land exchanged: +5,262 (214/168)


As of 6 hours ago, AMA was over twice the size of Jerks, who they fully intended on pushing to war.


Try harder.

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Originally Posted by Palem

As of 6 hours ago, AMA was over twice the size of Jerks, who they fully intended on pushing to war.
Try harder.

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When AMA go for round 2 both kds was in declare range and 3 dragons send from ama and 1 from jerks. They loss land and being half size dont mean hostile is auto over.
Dont forget you claimed Jerks "won crown" but its was result after they retal war for 2 weeks half size kd and get war with them. So if you say its won why i cant won same way after retal war them and get war? Dont you think pew interfere can be considered for chart shape prevent us win crown same way?

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Originally Posted by Palem

Forcing a b2b on a kd that's a tad bigger than half your size because they max gained before they surrendered is the proper and fair way to compete for the land crown?

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Nobody was forced into anything, from what both sides has confirmed Jerks were given a dirt cheap way out. So the claim that anybody was forced into anything is entirely an imaginary construction.

AMA was forcing Jerks to either B2B or give up some ridiculous amount of land for free to CF.

Just because there's option presented doesn't mean AMA isn't trying force Jerks into doing what they want.


That's like saying "You may either shoot yourself in the head, or in the heart, otherwise I'm going to shoot you in the stomach and you'll die slowly. I'm not forcing you to kill yourself because I'm giving you an option"

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Originally Posted by Palem

AMA was forcing Jerks to either B2B or give up some ridiculous amount of land for free to CF.

Just because there's option presented doesn't mean AMA isn't trying force Jerks into doing what they want.


That's like saying "You may either shoot yourself in the head, or in the heart, otherwise I'm going to shoot you in the stomach and you'll die slowly. I'm not forcing you to kill yourself because I'm giving you an option"

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Amount was hardly ridiculous, hell, they even lowered their offer and still Jerks refused, most other top kingdom leaders(current or previous) who commented on it said that the amount was incredibly cheap so it's not just my personal opinion.
Having to give up acres for CF seems to be the norm these days almost regardless of situation.

They already gave up acres...in war.

Elit was being greedy

Elldallan/Proteus,

Are you suggesting that if one kingdom stops hitting and opping another kingdom entirely, that the aggressor kingdom can continue to claim hostile for as long as they want until they decide to accept a CF? Surely there is a point where the conflict no longer offers protection from other people getting involved, even without both parties agreeing...

Guys, I looked back through my saved KD news, and AMA has hit into my ghetto while it was hostile not just once, but TWICE this age. This unprovoked double hostility is ridiculous and unfair attempt for gain aces.

Is total ****play and hypocritical behavior, I expect all kds come help by gangbang AMA and punish poor sportsmanship.

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Originally Posted by tetley

Elldallan/Proteus,

Are you suggesting that if one kingdom stops hitting and opping another kingdom entirely, that the aggressor kingdom can continue to claim hostile for as long as they want until they decide to accept a CF? Surely there is a point where the conflict no longer offers protection from other people getting involved, even without both parties agreeing...

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Yes certainly there is such a point. The game mechanisms would suggest that this point is when relations for one side drops below the point at which you have access to hostile op's or when the defending kingdom would normally loose access to button(if they were in range).

However 18 days is obviously ridiculously long but since the defending kingdom could technically start op's, attacks again (and even declare if they're in range) when somebody else starts a new conflict with the original aggressor it's the only point that makes sense in terms of mechanics at which point conflict can be considered to be over(assuming at least one party is still maintaining the conflict actively).
Because this time is obviously extremely long and because of that obviously open to abuse(what if 2 allies swap attacks with each other, enough to maintain hostile relations for an entire age except when they wants to get into a conflict etc)
So giving a definite answer on exactly where that point lies is extremely hard, maybe even impossible but I agree with you that at least in theory such a point exists, where exactly it's situated is something that can probably never be agreed upon unless the relations system is changed.

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Originally Posted by Meep

Guys, I looked back through my saved KD news, and AMA has hit into my ghetto while it was hostile not just once, but TWICE this age. This unprovoked double hostility is ridiculous and unfair attempt for gain aces.

Is total ****play and hypocritical behavior, I expect all kds come help by gangbang AMA and punish poor sportsmanship.

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Nobody in the top cares about ghetto relations because hostile tags are too often faked and SN requires too much effort, now if there either were a way to confirm hostile status without having to do ops or if SN was lowered to 1% stealth and had a similar difficulty as SoT then people might actually bother to check whether they hit into ghetto relations(I doubt that anybody would still care but at least then they wouldn't have an excuse anymore)

Does this mean there is a double standard... sure it does.
Oh, and which of the other top kingdoms hit into your hostiles, I'm sure AMA isn't the only one?

I think I'm gonna start ignoring top relations

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Originally Posted by Palem

I think I'm gonna start ignoring top relations

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That's your choice and you're free to make it :P

Besides, as you(and I as well) has said in other threads elsewhere, the game is specifically tailored to allow people to hit into relations, we're not really talking about whether it's wrong to hit into relations or not. It's more about the metagame definition of what defines those relations and how they affect metagame stuff like diplomacy terms etc.
Pretty much every single ghetto ignores that part of the metagame, if a ghetto had a cf with a top kingdom like top kingdoms usually do with each other it'd be just as wrong if the top kingdom(or the ghetto) broke that as when top kingdoms break deals between each others.

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Originally Posted by tetley

Elldallan/Proteus,

Are you suggesting that if one kingdom stops hitting and opping another kingdom entirely, that the aggressor kingdom can continue to claim hostile for as long as they want until they decide to accept a CF? Surely there is a point where the conflict no longer offers protection from other people getting involved, even without both parties agreeing...

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Stooping hits for 2h dont mean hostile is over. You was close to max meter and its why you cant hit much but your kd still done ops. You had very good chance for prevent b2b war from begin with take my offer and its was not greedy offer. Basically 2500 core acres for eoa cf yr5. You decide to start grudge and coordinate this ****s with pew pew. Dont get people for stupid. Every one can see this was planed and coordinated from both kds in advance. Now you have grudge with us and im sure we will see much more mad logs/post from pendel in future.

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Originally Posted by Palem

I think I'm gonna start ignoring top relations

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Till you moderate forum its not going to happen :P