Sheister vs Sampuan

This war was one of the funniest ever. Bloody and neat. True viking style.

Sheister, let's have fun some more time, in war or non war, that doesnt matter.

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Originally Posted by Leonidas

Honestly, was it pretty much as Feint said it would turn out, where Pyro having a relatively new roster were unable to maintain the intensity, whereas FS had always been playing the long game?

As Tadpole said in the news thread it's definitely a legit way to win, but long wars do tend to suck the life out of the players (or did to me when I played)

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I mean... 48h wars are probably more efficient for both sides, obviously. Does anyone really remember the quick ones though? I think both us and Pyro will remember this war for some time. It had an "epic" feel to it, which was pretty cool.

The problem that many many people have mentioned is that in the current game meta no kingdom wants to enter war with disadvantages, because it is very unlikely to come out of the war with a win if you enter the war disadvantaged. We took a war where we felt we were the severe underdogs (prep, science, gc, etc) knowing that our only chance to win was to develop long term win conditions.

Either way, it felt like a great war, had some drama to it and some back and forth. It probably looked pretty awesome from the outside looking in, but from the inside it was fantastic. Both kingdoms were making plays, doing counter plays, reading the other kingdoms next moves, attempting to intercept those moves before they became game changers. It felt like a really good war, and we are happy with the journey as well as the destination.

Props to Pyro for making it a fun one.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

It's ok. I think Loons was with us in Jerks last age(?). He knows I'm useless.
~ They wouldn't let me run my elf cleric :-(

" Your primitive trad marches are useless against our holy shields."

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No i wasnt strato, ive never played in jerks or with u. And im a she ;). Congrats on big orc though :D

Meh. I wish we had stayed in and farmed back some land. As it stands now, we will take forever to be able to war anyone again. Between the damage to provinces and the distribution basically our age is over.

/me shrugs.

At least I learned what I need to teach people.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Meh. I wish we had stayed in and farmed back some land. As it stands now, we will take forever to be able to war anyone again. Between the damage to provinces and the distribution basically our age is over.

/me shrugs.

At least I learned what I need to teach people.

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Yeah, look at the whole picture before taking out a win beforehand.

Anyways, as we all stated, was a superb war and ty Pyro for giving us this experience.

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Originally Posted by texn

Yeah, look at the whole picture before taking out a win beforehand.

Anyways, as we all stated, was a superb war and ty Pyro for giving us this experience.

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It was not my call. By the time I woke up everything had already been decided. Issue of being in a mostly asian KD....

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Originally Posted by Sheister

It was not my call. By the time I woke up everything had already been decided. Issue of being in a mostly asian KD....

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Ye that can be a problem :/ Anyways, i hope we can pat each others back and say GJ. Let's have more fun together in this game.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

It was not my call. By the time I woke up everything had already been decided. Issue of being in a mostly asian KD....

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get out sheister... I made this thread for YOU. YOU run the show and don't let them make orders without you...

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Originally Posted by 2Utopian

get out sheister... I made this thread for YOU. YOU run the show and don't let them make orders without you...

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Actually, for the last several ages it has been just about all I can do to bother to log on. Nesta keeps asking me for input, which I generally limit to "yes" and "no." I think few of my KD mates would dispute that my whatsapp contributions are minimal and generally of small content. (That is largely because it is so spammy I can't even read it).

This war was very disheartening for me because of the gaps I saw and that I really did not have time (and, to be honest, the patience) to teach people how to close them. I think in my my active whip-cracking days, things would have been different. Times change.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Actually, for the last several ages it has been just about all I can do to bother to log on. Nesta keeps asking me for input, which I generally limit to "yes" and "no." I think few of my KD mates would dispute that my whatsapp contributions are minimal and generally of small content. (That is largely because it is so spammy I can't even read it).

This war was very disheartening for me because of the gaps I saw and that I really did not have time (and, to be honest, the patience) to teach people how to close them. I think in my my active whip-cracking days, things would have been different. Times change.

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Time to leave...if Nesta need to seek advice from you, it shows how lean your squad is to mount a serious challenge.
Join me!

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Originally Posted by jmiedema

I mean... 48h wars are probably more efficient for both sides, obviously. Does anyone really remember the quick ones though? I think both us and Pyro will remember this war for some time. It had an "epic" feel to it, which was pretty cool.

The problem that many many people have mentioned is that in the current game meta no kingdom wants to enter war with disadvantages, because it is very unlikely to come out of the war with a win if you enter the war disadvantaged. We took a war where we felt we were the severe underdogs (prep, science, gc, etc) knowing that our only chance to win was to develop long term win conditions.

Either way, it felt like a great war, had some drama to it and some back and forth. It probably looked pretty awesome from the outside looking in, but from the inside it was fantastic. Both kingdoms were making plays, doing counter plays, reading the other kingdoms next moves, attempting to intercept those moves before they became game changers. It felt like a really good war, and we are happy with the journey as well as the destination.

Props to Pyro for making it a fun one.

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I hope I didn't come across as taking anything away from your victory - It was a very impressive victory, and it seemed that Pyro had it wrapped up, but not quite.

In the meta view of the game, however, a focus on war-wins turns each war into an all-or-nothing situation. Playing the long game is a tactic that more and more kingdoms are beginning to understand - I think the community has moved from the "MOAR ACRES! WINNING!" mentality. This will likely lead to longer wars (and less wars as well, probably).

The contrast is to the growth kingdom wars. Some wars do knock contenders out of the race, but in most cases, the losing kingdom's target is to minimise acre loss, and they effectively enter the "loser's bracket" and try to catch up in acres in other ways. Each war becomes part of a bigger mission for the age (that isn't "win as many wars as possible")

To go off on a slight tangent, I think there's still something wrong in the fact that Pyro suffered a double blow in this case - firstly, they lost (deservedly, no question about that), and secondly, they got all the acres (which only three kingdoms want). If there was a resource that made warring more desirable (land obviously isn't it, honor isn't it either because you would be in a situation to lose more in war than out of it) as opposed to running, then I think it would be healthier for the game in the long run.

Too me it's a mechanics problem in the game. If raze destroyed land the out come of the war might have been different. Because If two kingdoms are super active and refuse quit you will never have war wins. It becomes war of who has the stamina not to quit. Hence why most in the war tier goes by networth. Utopia will become extremely lame if every kingdom requires 50% auto win.

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Too me it's a mechanics problem in the game. If raze destroyed land the out come of the war might have been different. Because If two kingdoms are super active and refuse quit you will never have war wins. It becomes war of who has the stamina not to quit. Hence why most in the war tier goes by networth. Utopia will become extremely lame if every kingdom requires 50% auto win.

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Maybe can do like once enemy kingdom drop more than 50% of their starting nw or acres, auto lose. It is like race against drop

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Originally Posted by Korp

Seems its FS thats a bit salty, refusing to give up even if they lost. Thinking they "still have a chance" is such a ghetto mentality its silly.

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Plz tell me moar ;)

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Originally Posted by Loons

No i wasnt strato, ive never played in jerks or with u. And im a she ;). Congrats on big orc though :D

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There was a Loons in there, just so you're aware there's a doppelgänger lurking the dark forests of Jerklund.

Or you're the doppelgänger Mystique.

Loading the Orc will be the challenge. Taking acres was granted by FS so it required no effort in that regard. Acquiring acres becomes something of an addiction when faced with no way of defending yourself. It was the few peasants and build credits along with attempting to hold FS attackers out of nw tipping range.

It was my belief they're endgame was to force a situation where our tops could only break theirs if open to their core. By crashing my acres they could stack nw quickly and be in relative killer range. The fact they were using one of their smallest attackers to raze me was multipurpose.

1- the tiny attacker protected a great deal of offense by raze which can't be ambushed.
2- I took it as an honorable warning that FS could take me down at any point.
3- the tiny attacker was already slogging in land defense and could fuel itself against our chained.
4- there was no waste or risk of being chained.

meh strato. The problem is people were not warring in a way to win in the given circumstances. The fact that people were even worried about losing empty acres shows that. Sad sad sad.

Again, not my call. I told you all in whatsapp the build change orders and the way I would have gone.

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Originally Posted by texn

Plz tell me moar ;)

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I mean.....SauMPaN confirmed that.

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Originally Posted by Palem

I mean.....SauMPaN confirmed that.

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Im lost, maybe cuz it's the end of a harsh working week.

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Originally Posted by texn

Im lost, maybe cuz it's the end of a harsh working week.

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He's saying that your own kd mate said that you guys were salty and would refuse to withdraw until you felt there was no hope left. Now you people bored Pyro to WD :( a bit like nagging a girl into having sex with you. Finally they will have sex just to shut you up..

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

nesta accusing us for trying to farm sci before wd to beat some other kds (seriously? too much pew pew?), sheister demanding wd and swearing long-term grudges for wasting his time, and bombdigie, well just being himself i guess.. im only going through this, because this is the only reason i decided to stay in the war, along with yume believing in me too much - my disappointment in pyro's attitude weighed heavier than my frustration with ourselves..

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I.e. We lost, but I didn't want to surrender because of their attitude.
It's possible that things are being exaggerated for story-telling purposes, but still a pretty salty tude.

He didnt said we lost, he said he was ready to give up.
It is a very sad that some people cant grasp the concept you didnt lost just because you are loosing.

If somebody is stooping to lower lvl here it is you Palem for going hand in hand with known haters who allways crawl out of the woodworm when FS is mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Korp

He's saying that your own kd mate said that you guys were salty and would refuse to withdraw until you felt there was no hope left. Now you people bored Pyro to WD :( a bit like nagging a girl into having sex with you. Finally they will have sex just to shut you up..

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We bored them to WD? Ok you can think that bro :P Ur mad utopia skillz are showing.. not.

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Originally Posted by Palem

I.e. We lost, but I didn't want to surrender because of their attitude.
It's possible that things are being exaggerated for story-telling purposes, but still a pretty salty tude.

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He never said we lost, re read plz he wrote that he was tired becuz we made several big misstakes. Not that the war was lost. And sure, the **** throwing at us triggered the KD to perform better but the KD was on with the long term plan.

Just to be clear...

SauMPaN was going to surrender from a war you guys hadn't lost if Pyro's attitude hadn't been so poor?

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Originally Posted by Palem

I.e. We lost, but I didn't want to surrender because of their attitude.
It's possible that things are being exaggerated for story-telling purposes, but still a pretty salty tude.

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taking out of context too much? it is clearly stated in previous paragraph that the reason to exit was not because it was lost, but we were playing painfully bad.. its plain stupid of ppl to still talk about how the war was lost, while it was won by us..

i didnt have neither energy nor motivation to delve into micromanagement of the entire kd to salvage the war, but pyro gave me all the reasons for it.. call it whatever you like, but it was clearly proven that the war was still winnable unlike how so many ppl claimed it to be..

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Originally Posted by texn

We bored them to WD? Ok you can think that bro :P Ur mad utopia skillz are showing.. not.



He never said we lost, re read plz he wrote that he was tired becuz we made several big misstakes. Not that the war was lost. And sure, the **** throwing at us triggered the KD to perform better but the KD was on with the long term plan.

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Who's salty now :)

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

taking out of context too much? it is clearly stated in previous paragraph that the reason to exit was not because it was lost, but we were playing painfully bad.. its plain stupid of ppl to still talk about how the war was lost, while it was won by us..

i didnt have neither energy nor motivation to delve into micromanagement of the entire kd to salvage the war, but pyro gave me all the reasons for it.. call it whatever you like, but it was clearly proven that the war was still winnable unlike how so many ppl claimed it to be..

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What am I taking out of context?
You guys were playing like ****. You were playing so poorly that you as the monarch were considering surrendering. Then you cite pyro's attitude as the reason you decided not to surrender. When a monarch is thinking to himself "Man, we're playing like ****. We should probably surrender" and then decides not to because he doesn't like the way the other kingdom is talking to him, that's bad. In the other case, if the actual reason you didn't surrender wasn't because of Pyro's attitude, but rather a prevailing faith in your ability to execute as a kingdom and establish a comeback, then you're just trying to throw some extra jabs at Pyro and make the war loss even worse for them. As if they had just had a better attitude, then they would have won. If that's the case, then that's just as bad.


I'm not sure why I'm getting so much shade out of the FS corner. I wasn't in here stomping my feet about how you guys should surrender. Is FS above objective criticisms?

Objective criticism?
They won a war because their strategy was superior... that's about it... That's the objective truth, people just refuse to acknowledge Francis's superior strategical reasoning to the rest of this dead server so they come up with stupid excuses, that's objective reasoning, everything else is just BLA BLA BLA. I don't care if you hate Francis, don't like the way he talks, dresses up or makes love to his wife - he is almost a genius when it comes to planning ahead, as expected from a chess player, the sooner you realize this, the sooner we can move on from looking for comedic reasons to argue over.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

There was a Loons in there, just so you're aware there's a doppelgänger lurking the dark forests of Jerklund.

Or you're the doppelgänger Mystique.

Loading the Orc will be the challenge. Taking acres was granted by FS so it required no effort in that regard. Acquiring acres becomes something of an addiction when faced with no way of defending yourself. It was the few peasants and build credits along with attempting to hold FS attackers out of nw tipping range.

It was my belief they're endgame was to force a situation where our tops could only break theirs if open to their core. By crashing my acres they could stack nw quickly and be in relative killer range. The fact they were using one of their smallest attackers to raze me was multipurpose.

1- the tiny attacker protected a great deal of offense by raze which can't be ambushed.
2- I took it as an honorable warning that FS could take me down at any point.
3- the tiny attacker was already slogging in land defense and could fuel itself against our chained.
4- there was no waste or risk of being chained.

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There is a player with the nick Looney as well. Dont know him/her though

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Originally Posted by Palem

What am I taking out of context?

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when you completely disregard a part about us still having chances and say the war was lost because of some other line in the next paragraph, you take things out of context..

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Originally Posted by Palem

You guys were playing like ****. You were playing so poorly that you as the monarch were considering surrendering. Then you cite pyro's attitude as the reason you decided not to surrender. When a monarch is thinking to himself "Man, we're playing like ****. We should probably surrender" and then decides not to because he doesn't like the way the other kingdom is talking to him, that's bad.

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please elaborate, because i fail to understand what is bad here.. ive explained myself as honestly as possible, and i stand by it - 'my disappointment in pyro's attitude weighed heavier than my frustration with ourselves'.. we have been friendly with pyro for many ages now, and i found it extremely insulting to see all the ****talk just because we were warring them.. as i already pointed out, i wasnt talking about this because i hold a grudge or anything, but it was a major turning point for us by providing what we had lacked so far - activity and motivation..

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Originally Posted by Korp

Who's salty now :)

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I am, like the ****ing ocean!

Come on guys, stop justifying your pretty lame move of not surrendering. I know it is all about pride in your kingdom and you should keep your name as war winners but... damn. Why you do it at all costs? You should have respected Pyro and end it. Now you created the atmosphere around you as a kd which will never surrender and just drag the war. Who will want to war you? Wars should not be won by the kd who has more time to lose and its players have no reallife.

P.S. Godly = Chai Gaviani confirmed!

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Originally Posted by Perv

Come on guys, stop justifying your pretty lame move of not surrendering. I know it is all about pride in your kingdom and you should keep your name as war winners but... damn. Why you do it at all costs? You should have respected Pyro and end it. Now you created the atmosphere around you as a kd which will never surrender and just drag the war. Who will want to war you? Wars should not be won by the kd who has more time to lose and its players have no reallife.

P.S. Godly = Chai Gaviani confirmed!

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Wars should be won by players who are not willing to sacrifice more for the win, who have an inferior war plan and who whine about it on the forum.

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Originally Posted by Perv

Come on guys, stop justifying your pretty lame move of not surrendering. I know it is all about pride in your kingdom and you should keep your name as war winners but... damn. Why you do it at all costs? You should have respected Pyro and end it. Now you created the atmosphere around you as a kd which will never surrender and just drag the war. Who will want to war you? Wars should not be won by the kd who has more time to lose and its players have no reallife.

P.S. Godly = Chai Gaviani confirmed!

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https://thisisdahlia.files.wordpress...nna-hate-5.png

Not hating here just saying what if pyro had dug in and said only way I will surrender 50% auto win. War would have lasted till eoa with no winner.

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Not hating here just saying what if pyro had dug in and said only way I will surrender 50% auto win. War would have lasted till eoa with no winner.

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Well then the epic war would have been longer, but in the end we would have finished it. Had been fine by me, then i could have gotten some acres back. :)

Pretty sure it's a case of Pyro beating themselves more than anything else. That is usually the case.

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Not hating here just saying what if pyro had dug in and said only way I will surrender 50% auto win. War would have lasted till eoa with no winner.

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You are implying we did that to Pyro.
We didnt.

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

Not hating here just saying what if pyro had dug in and said only way I will surrender 50% auto win. War would have lasted till eoa with no winner.

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im pretty confident that we would eventually get %50 win, but i agree that it would take around 1-2 weeks.. the deciding factor on how long would be how fast our tms could shut their remaining econ on 2 mystics..

I am talking mechanics of the game more or less. Pyros are big boys and FS is the best warring kingdom around. I just hate nw protecting smaller guys and enjoyed the days of razes destroying land in war.

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Originally Posted by handofthrawn

I am talking mechanics of the game more or less. Pyros are big boys and FS is the best warring kingdom around. I just hate nw protecting smaller guys and enjoyed the days of razes destroying land in war.

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I liked land killing razes also :P
Cast Nightmare
Click Raze
Profit?