Quote Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Lets eat the pies instead of keep throwing them at each others

ED running from a war was lame
Pyro helping ED run from a war to get an easy win was lame
Fratzia waving ED into a real war, even thou it was arranged was lame


Like someone said, its all lame. I think most people that arent overly biased can agree on that.

I can understand why ED ran, and why Pyro helped ED, and why Fratzia waved ED. But it doesnt make any of it right.

I do agree with one thing the dude from Pyro wrote. This CF thing needs to stop. Arranged war is just a natural product of the CF game getting out of hand. Its hard to arrange a war and run from someone when u dont have 2-3 days to look for one.

In the end I guess its all those kds doing the CF game that are to blame for this. Utopians are no different then others, they will find ways to avoid conflicts if they see no chance of winning or gaining from it. They way the CF game is set up, it allows for arranged wars to a much larger extent, and thats why we are starting to see them in the top now as well.

When there was no CF game going on, people ran to fake wars after being waved or if they anticipated a wave. Now people arrange wars when they know someone is coming for them because they have the time to do so. Thats how it is, people will always find ways to avoid a conflict if they are desperate and if its possible to do so to a smaller loss.

Personally I see nothing wrong with arranging wars. Its well within the rules. But there is also within the rules to farm out, to gangbang provinces and/or kingdoms and to powerplay weaker kingdoms. So if someone get mad at people for arranging wars, you either accept that, or do something about it. Just like you do with all the other things mentioned two sentences up.

Usually there is a reaction within the utopian community when something is going on that the majority think is lame, and then there will be actions against it, and then generally that thing stops cause people realize the price is too high to pay.

We already starting to see some reactions to arranged wars: we saw some last age with SWEA and AMA hitting into wars, and we now saw it with Fratzia hitting into a war. Eventually more kds will feel they are entitled to hit into arranged wars and then we'll probably see alot less of them. That is how Utopia work.

Or if more people think arranging wars are fine and hitting into them arent, then we will start to see the kds hitting into arranged wars being punished, and then they will do that to a lesser extent.

So in the end it will just come down to what the utopian community think is more or less wrong. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.
Everything you said makes a lot of sense, but not us getting an easy win. It just goes to show you havent seen the 2 KDs setup before Fratzia's hits in making it look heavily 1 sided now.

ED had 6 fatties under 110NWPA at 7-9k land, but still, those people are hard to drop due to their NW gap with our core, and even at 7k land and 40 DPA, its going to take a HUGE chunk of offense from someone on Pyro's core to tap, meaning, its going to be lower gains, and ED can easily chain our core guy if we did the tap. Not to mention they had an economic advantage with a 25k bank, and better science and WPA having remained at a larger size for longer time. It would have required loads of strategic planning on our end to win this, and we wanted to prove we could do it, or at least have a shot at trying it.

And we proceeded this war with our best efforts; Not sure what you're insinuating with this statement "Pyro helping ED run from a war to get an easy win was lame
", but to say either ED "ran" and (A) arranged to let us win (no matter how well/poorly we fought) or (B) that this win would be easy for us, is simply not accurate.