yea umm rakki nw based gains helped me a ton last age don't knock them
yea umm rakki nw based gains helped me a ton last age don't knock them
knrg is stupid.
it should be reviewed, remove the onesided protection, and make it effect gains both ways, less gains for kds of massive nw disparity even if both provs are similar in nw regardless of which kd is hitting, big or small.
IMO bottomfeeding is a different issue, and one which knrg has little effect on nowadays, except making def heavy really appealing.
I tend to agree with blademaster. Coupled with gb protection that is so easy to trigger, it doesnt make sense to me to make retal warring is worthwhile.
Yep, toadi is 100% right.
KRNG is a joke, and it actually promotes bottomfeeding. Severe bottomfeeding. It also promotes powerplaying. Because the bigger kd (if they are silly enough to hit someone that can retal OR someone from a smaller kd initiates) gets hit and then has to retal 2-3x to get back the acres and come out on top.
But they wont brenton, because repeatedly bashing the same province is not worthwhile. You will need closer to 4-5 hits to balance out the effects of 1 retal hit, and this exchange slows you down because once his army is in, he hits u again one time which u need 4-5 hits to balance out again. KDRN or not, bottomfeed is the natural progression of growth. The smaller kingdom that understands this fact will not be powerplayed like you described.
Also as a side note, kingdom related nw gains is actually only reduces to a max of 33% reduction, so its not the 60% toadi says.
It is silly to think that top KDs would be more inclined to allow someone to hit them if they can retal for good gains than if they can retal for bad gains. KNRG does not promote powerplaying, the top KDs would make the same amount of retals (if not more) if gains would be better. They do not seek to equalize gains or something, the retals are punishment for hitting the top KD, if the gains stay good longer the punishment will be greater.
The only time that you would make an unsafe hit on someone even if you'd know that the enemy retal wouldn't be bigger than your hit is if your KD can gain from the province after it has hit you. The way GB protection works these days I think such occasions would be rare, if they would appear you will replace the bottomfeeding with powerplaying, I can't really say that that would be much of an improvement.Originally Posted by Toadi
realest
because repeatedly bashing the same province is not worthwhile. You will need closer to 4-5 hits to balance out the effects of 1 retal hit, and this exchange slows you down because once his army is in, he hits u again one time which u need 4-5 hits to balance out again.
afkain
They do not seek to equalize gains or something, the retals are punishment for hitting the top KD, if the gains stay good longer the punishment will be greater.
id say its just as much about hitting them out of range too..
What do you mean "hit them out of range"? A lone province isn't a threat to a top KD. The only loners you might want to hit down are those who are in bank size and those are pretty much nonexistent.
AFKain.
you dont need to educate me on bottomfeeding. A retaling prov is always a threat as long as its in range (or you can force a CF ofc). If you dont understand what "hitting out of range" means i dont really know what more to say.. maybe one day youll understand.. who knows..
yea that works raki, but it fails when you have stragglers/smallies in ur kd who will eat the blunt of the solo nub's retals. You can only hit em outta range so far while trying to grow ur biggies.
I think the rest part of my post showed that I understand what the concept of hitting someone out of range is, my question was why you would waste the hits and time to do this on every province that hits you. It helps to read a sentence in context, maybe one day youll understand.. who knows..
Hitting someone out of range takes a whole lot more attacks than your average triple retal or so. Not to mention that you are sacrificing growth. You must reduce the province well below your KDs smallest province while the province you are targeting has GB protection and is hitting your provinces. This takes much time and effort and it is a complete waste on most provinces since there is no reason to target them this way and thus is not used very often.
Last edited by AFKain; 29-09-2008 at 15:06.
That is just blatantly wrong, and is exactly the opposite. A lone province is a huge threat to a top KD. The lone province hits a province into the top KD for max gains. The top KD retals the lone province, but with 60% gains because of KNRG. The lone province hits another province into the top KD for max gains. The top KD retals a second time the lone province, but with 50% gains because of KNRG and little GB protection. It keeps going for a while. After a few hits, the lone province can keep max gains all the time, but the top KD hits with 10% or less gains because of KNRG and extreme GB protection. After a short while, it can take 10 or more retals just to even out the losses for the top KD.A lone province isn't a threat to a top KD.
A top KD cannot do anything against a loner with good offense and Guardstations. Pretty much all the time the top KD has to negociate for a CF or eat up the hits without saying anything.
This is because of the dumb KNRG and GB protections.
OK, 60, 67, not a big difference regardless. I did not say 60% reduction, just 60% of the gains. When this stacks with GB protection, it goes down very fast regardless.Also as a side note, kingdom related nw gains is actually only reduces to a max of 33% reduction, so its not the 60% toadi says.
Toadi a lone province can take acres from your KD but he's not a threat to you, where that quote is taken from I was explaining that top KDs don't go around taking lone provinces down for no reason. It's true that a loner can take acres by abusing GB protection (which is the real problem, not KNRG).
Anyway such a situation is a 25 to one game, the top KD often is in a position where it can make use of its hybrids to force a CF. It's not an ideal situation but KNRG isn't really the problem.
AFKain
yea that works raki, but it fails when you have stragglers/smallies in ur kd who will eat the blunt of the solo nub's retals.
Ay. which is why you should always take care of those nublars before its too late. And one of the reasons why warring is so nasty. Once someone is slowed down enough they eat retals and you end up spending 10x as much resources to get them back than you wouldve if you had fixed it earlier :P
You can only hit em outta range so far while trying to grow ur biggies.
yeah.. luckily enough not many people retal in first place.. those that do you take care of later when you cant really random anymore and might aswell powerplay some people ;)
my question was why you would waste the hits and time to do this on every province that hits you.
one day youll understand..
Hitting someone out of range takes a whole lot more attacks than your average triple retal or so.
depends on what range youre hitting them in first place. either way sooner or later you end up in situations were retalers have to be dealth with because tehre really is no one else you want to attack anyway.
This takes much time and effort and it is a complete waste on most provinces since there is no reason to target them this way and thus is not used very often.
Its not used very often because a) not many retals b) not many kds are in a position where they "need" to do it.. and as i said, you dont really need to explain anything.. i think i got that part of the game covered..
Toadi a lone province can take acres from your KD but he's not a threat to you,
Thats exactly why hes a threat. He can mess with your growth. (if you dont care about growth it doesnt matter obviously)
I was explaining that top KDs don't go around taking lone provinces down for no reason.
The reason is that you need their land. once someone starts to retal theres no telling he will stop attacking you either, so if you cant deal him out you might have to take him out. (were talkin about provs ~70-75% of avg nw here.. if even that)
It's true that a loner can take acres by abusing GB protection (which is the real problem, not KNRG).
ofc GB prot is the real ***** in the situation, but knrg hardly helps the larger kd out.. after all you need to do more hits to get same result..
the top KD often is in a position where it can make use of its hybrids to force a CF
wtf does hybrids have to do with it? not like pure attackers wouldnt be just as able to do the same, heck theyd have more raw power and would be able to powerplay him easier.
Toadi
A top KD cannot do anything against a loner with good offense and Guardstations. Pretty much all the time the top KD has to negociate for a CF or eat up the hits without saying anything.
well, nothing other than dropping them out of range cause theres no other hits to be made anyway.. sooner or later you need those acres even if getting them is *****y.. unless you havent started dicing by then.
this is on gen
April 9th, YR11 giruvegan (XX:XX) invaded Aunt Dora (YY:YY) and captured 907 acres of land.
a 1.3 mil dwarf (7000 acres) hitting a 1.3 mil (7300 acre) human
3 mil kd, hitting a 8 mil kd, dwarf has ~5-6% gains science
the retal:
April 13th, YR11 Aunt Dora (YY:YY) captured 430 acres of land from giruvegan (XX:XX).
he has ~15% GS @110% and no GBP
its not easy at all to stop a single province!
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