From Sonata's kd page:
Average Opponent Relative Size 64%
nothin to see here, keep on moving!
From Sonata's kd page:
Average Opponent Relative Size 64%
nothin to see here, keep on moving!
puppy101, a few Sonata players confirmed to me that the kingdom was formed through illegal account trading. That constiutes cheating. Notice that I didn't bring this matter up, I merely corrected SillyPanda.
Luc, the comment was about bottomfeeding in general. I agree a bunch of kingdoms prey on smaller kingdoms for easy wars. I don't like it, and it's not cheating or bug exploitation. Declaring a kingdom at less than 50% NW is.
I'd agree with you, but keep in mind that 1) they're barely talking 2) they have caused truckloads of bugs already, it's not hard to imagine that this was also unintentional. Do you think people were in their good right to abuse the Tornado bug until Mehul made a statement about it?There is no documentation saying S&B mean to have this feature carried into the new code. I would guess they mean to, but just haven't gotten around to it yet, but unless they clearly state that intention this should not be considered a bug just yet. Until they let us know
For Master of Magic fans:
Originally Posted by Dylan Collins, CEO of OMAC
I don't agree that it's either cheating or bug exploitation. The smaller kd has no business giving away the button. If they do, they deserve to end up in a war. The warring range as a feature is not a no brainer and the absence of it is not a confirmed bug. It will be if they decide to fix it. If they don't, then obviously they never meant to keep it in the new code. I doubt it would take them many minutes to fix it if they wanted to.
Very bad comparison. War range cannot easily be confirmed as a bug. Not including it is a viable choice. Tornadoes being greatly overpowered is very unbalancing and as such extremely likely to be a bug. Not to mention that tornadoes are much easier to abuse, since if people want to avoid it they can't even give UF.I'd agree with you, but keep in mind that 1) they're barely talking 2) they have caused truckloads of bugs already, it's not hard to imagine that this was also unintentional. Do you think people were in their good right to abuse the Tornado bug until Mehul made a statement about it?
Last edited by Luc; 28-11-2009 at 14:21.
The smaller kingdom should not even have the ability to give away the button in the first place.
That's why this is a bug.
But let's rethink this.
Imagine Sonta goes on the typical wave for free acres in the ghettos. What if the ghettos know they can declare no matter how big the difference in networth is? What if every single ghetto that Sonata, and any other 'top' kingdom out there, decides to hit learns about this, and declares on you, so they can sit there, while you try to farm out their one huge gnome, and their 10 500 acres provinces, while refusing to leave war?
Catwalk's crusade for legalized cheating was a stunning success, with ghettos and low-tiered teams everywhere losing their wells of knowledge to better kingdoms in the process.
Step one: replace everything that works.
Step two: blame the predictable epic fail on outside forces.
Step three: keep the community informed that no progress has been made since the last update.
Step four: thank you for your patience.
And as I've already said, that's not a logical conclusion at all. Why shouldn't they be able to give away button? Why should they be protected from the consequences of outhitting a much stronger kd?
Why do you use Sonata as an example here? It doesn't support your point at all since they only care about land, not war wins.But let's rethink this.
Imagine Sonta goes on the typical wave for free acres in the ghettos. What if the ghettos know they can declare no matter how big the difference in networth is? What if every single ghetto that Sonata, and any other 'top' kingdom out there, decides to hit learns about this, and declares on you, so they can sit there, while you try to farm out their one huge gnome, and their 10 500 acres provinces, while refusing to leave war?
probably because they are not suppose to even be able to wars kingdoms that much larger to begin with as everyone "cough" knows since its been that way for years.
Why use Sonata ? because the threads about them maybe.
wow oh my god catwalk, may i point out how i sat for you in copycats once and was given a munk login.
Utopian 5 Sept 2005 - 5 Sept 2013
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or not :) Do you seriously mean that it's reasonable to assume that they may have changed the relations system on a whim without informing us, when a truckload of stuff has been "changed" unintentionally? I don't see any reason to assume that, unless I had a stake in the matter and wished to defend personal interests.
puppy101, I have never denied that CC cheated. We employed illegal account trading, back when no means of kingdom selection was available. I defended the decision to do so, and I never denied that we broke the rules in doing so. We also used Munk on 6-8 provinces in order to facilitate trading. They were never used for any kind of x-logging, except a single time when a player didn't log on in time to fix his province name before age start. So yes, if you want to include that one instance we're guilty of x-logging and I'll have to accept blame for that. Otherwise, no. Also, why would we bother getting a sitter for a Munk account if we were x-logging?
As for how this discussion started, please read back. All I did was point out that exploiting bugs is against the rules. And I don't see any reasonable argument why this wouldn't be a bug.
Last edited by Catwalk; 28-11-2009 at 14:42.
For Master of Magic fans:
I'm not. Comparing nw's shouldn't be hard at all unless they've built their whole system in a completely stupid way. Also, I doubt it was extremely hard to understand the old code on this matter either. So I just don't see why they would miss it or fail at implementing it.
And yes, I think it's reasonable to think that they would've made such a change without telling us, because I doubt they think anyone ever tried to war kd's so much smaller than them. Also, they have made other changes that people had to find out for themselves and that were of a much bigger impact to the game.
And no, I have no personal interests to defend. I don't know that I ever warred someone smaller than 80% my kd's nw, and I don't see the point in trying to either.
You really can't see why 2 people with limited experience in the game, but with perfect knowledge of how the gains system works, would see the war range feature as silly and unnecessary? It may be an obvious feature to everyone who is used to it, but S&B are not, and I have yet to see a single good argument as to why this feature is so important at all (other than maybe that people don't know how it works, but that isn't related to the feature itself, only lack of communication).
Last edited by Luc; 28-11-2009 at 14:49.
Given how this round has turned out and the fact that they've missed or misunderstood many basic gameplay aspects, I think the reasonable assumption here is that they simply didn't think about it. Which other changes are you referring to?
For Master of Magic fans:
Okay....
Um, yeah.... during your tenure you made constant claim that ABS & CopyCats maintained "the top" as such: "what rules and regulations we follow are up to us and should OMAC have a problem with it they can delete us, and we'll start over and still make it to the top before age end"
Directly from.............. you.
Bot Bishop; neither scares me, nor has the ability to save you lady. (no, i don't care what pics you have posted online... i'm convinced in r/l you are a chick.)
Sonata owned up to cheating... only according to you. Where's your proof, or is this a baseless accusation?
still dealing with this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3NWDbaJw4
i know... i know... ABS supporters the game over ar--
sorry, still laughing at you. back on topic.
Which brings us to....
Which I do believe is checkmate on the confirmation side... no, I'm not thumbing back through threads... takes too long... much much too long.
[EDIT]
Even if, IF, this were true. You just did. Of which we would need Sonata players to confirm.
Last edited by SillyPanda; 28-11-2009 at 14:55.
When the nay-sayers pipe up with talk of exploitation through strategy and planning I'm reminded of a Jack Nickolson quote, "I think of a man, then I remove logic and reason from him"
I'm genuinely curious about what you're referring to. I have made very few statements about Abs in public. We joined the a-war out of dislike for Covenant primarily. Since then we've had a number of wars and hostiles with Mercy, and we didn't ask for a NAP with Abs after the a-war was done. What are you basing your statement on?Um, yeah.... during your tenure you made constant claim that ABS & CopyCats maintained "the top" as such: "what rules and regulations we follow are up to us and should OMAC have a problem with it they can delete us, and we'll start over and still make it to the top before age end"
You made 3 false accusations which you claim are based on admissions by me. Kindly show me what statements you're referring to.Directly from.............. you.
Logs with 3-4 people from Sonata and the shell they took over. Are you interested in seeing them? I won't post logs in public. Not saying this is a huge matter either, it's not like I have reported them for it. Just pointing out a fact.Sonata owned up to cheating... only according to you. Where's your proof, or is this a baseless accusation?
For Master of Magic fans:
Seeing as how they have to calculate the relative nw to put it on the kd page immediately after people declare, I can't say I agree that it's more reasonable that they missed it.
I haven't seen the code, so I don't know how many other basic gameplay aspects that didn't work because they were forgotten and how many that didn't because of faulty code.
A similar change they made was som randomness. I doubt they had a clue about som translators, and so they just changed it because they thought it didn't matter anyway. Either way they didn't tell anyone. I've also been told that they've made changes to the random factor with attacks, making it less weighted, but of course that's hard to prove without access to the code. Success ratios for spells also seems different from before.
Last edited by Luc; 28-11-2009 at 15:15. Reason: spelling
Oh... Mercy... like they count. Back then Mercy was the Trinity of ABS. They just swapped places over the ages.
Seriously...
Scroll up... read... reread... then read for comprehension.
And you can keep your taint logs, I'd much rather hear it from Sonata players.
When the nay-sayers pipe up with talk of exploitation through strategy and planning I'm reminded of a Jack Nickolson quote, "I think of a man, then I remove logic and reason from him"
Eh no one cross-logged in CC when I was there puppy, are you referring to just general munk login for its target finder? I don't know what went on prior, but I see no reason for Catwalk to lie about his habits when he's openly admitted to others. Only thing I could gather is trading in the past, which Catwalk already lived up to a long time ago.
In regards to this, what Sonata has done, it's not the first time this age. I don't know why it's a big deal now that they've done it, when others have - ZZ for example. Kingdom networth difference at the end of the war ended up at 2000%+ I think? (Didn't start like that), but you can clearly see the decimation that took place. I don't know what the diplomacy of that situation was though, so it's not my place to talk.
Granted though, like Catwalk and quite a few others - I recognize it's a bug exploit. You'd have to be completely idiotic to not recognize that, especially in contrast that this is a known top KD with reputable players doing it - they're fully aware of how the game mechanics worked, and they're fully aware of the bugs. I'm sorry if anyone takes the idiotic comment offensively, don't think you're an actual idiot if you think otherwise - but you are being a little dense to defend the point.
You guys should have had a little more discipline to not declare, regardless of the fact that they gave you button. I mean **** happens, but at least don't deny it or justify you're actions. Simply put, it's prick-ish. Like not even on a Utopian level, but an actual personal level given you're probably destroying the enjoyment a lot of those players get from the game by doing this. Sorry if that's offensive, just being honest though.
I don't think you guys cheat, don't care either. If you guys illegally traded once to merge, eh so what - that's one situation I don't think a big deal should be made out of, even though at the time it was done it was still possible to merge legitimately. If you guys are continuing to trade then I see that as a problem though. But whatever. As long as my KD isn't, I'm happy :P.
Anyway, good luck with the war. I said what I wanted to say, just hope you guys shape up and not abuse exploits and keep it completely legitimate.
I don't agree Sonata should be scapegoated for this however, when there were earlier kingdoms who did this. Keep it neutral guys is all I can ask of in this discussion.
The only issue is it hasn't been reported until now, it was just a general known consensus. It can be construed as unknown, but definitely not by someone who is familiar with the game and a little common sense. You know? :P
Last edited by Coruscale; 28-11-2009 at 15:12.
SYNERGY#synergy
>> Finn
>> Formerly in Copy Cats, Lothlorien, and Pyromaniacs
Is Wizzy secretly a gay fish?
* &Wizard likes fishsticks
<&Wizard> I love putting fishsticks in my mouth
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