Fratzia vs ED

[13nesta13]

Lets eat the pies instead of keep throwing them at each others

ED running from a war was lame
Pyro helping ED run from a war to get an easy win was lame
Fratzia waving ED into a real war, even thou it was arranged was lame


Like someone said, its all lame. I think most people that arent overly biased can agree on that.

I can understand why ED ran, and why Pyro helped ED, and why Fratzia waved ED. But it doesnt make any of it right.

I do agree with one thing the dude from Pyro wrote. This CF thing needs to stop. Arranged war is just a natural product of the CF game getting out of hand. Its hard to arrange a war and run from someone when u dont have 2-3 days to look for one.

In the end I guess its all those kds doing the CF game that are to blame for this. Utopians are no different then others, they will find ways to avoid conflicts if they see no chance of winning or gaining from it. They way the CF game is set up, it allows for arranged wars to a much larger extent, and thats why we are starting to see them in the top now as well.

When there was no CF game going on, people ran to fake wars after being waved or if they anticipated a wave. Now people arrange wars when they know someone is coming for them because they have the time to do so. Thats how it is, people will always find ways to avoid a conflict if they are desperate and if its possible to do so to a smaller loss.

Personally I see nothing wrong with arranging wars. Its well within the rules. But there is also within the rules to farm out, to gangbang provinces and/or kingdoms and to powerplay weaker kingdoms. So if someone get mad at people for arranging wars, you either accept that, or do something about it. Just like you do with all the other things mentioned two sentences up.

Usually there is a reaction within the utopian community when something is going on that the majority think is lame, and then there will be actions against it, and then generally that thing stops cause people realize the price is too high to pay.

We already starting to see some reactions to arranged wars: we saw some last age with SWEA and AMA hitting into wars, and we now saw it with Fratzia hitting into a war. Eventually more kds will feel they are entitled to hit into arranged wars and then we'll probably see alot less of them. That is how Utopia work.

Or if more people think arranging wars are fine and hitting into them arent, then we will start to see the kds hitting into arranged wars being punished, and then they will do that to a lesser extent.

So in the end it will just come down to what the utopian community think is more or less wrong. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense, but not us getting an easy win. It just goes to show you havent seen the 2 KDs setup before Fratzia's hits in making it look heavily 1 sided now.

ED had 6 fatties under 110NWPA at 7-9k land, but still, those people are hard to drop due to their NW gap with our core, and even at 7k land and 40 DPA, its going to take a HUGE chunk of offense from someone on Pyro's core to tap, meaning, its going to be lower gains, and ED can easily chain our core guy if we did the tap. Not to mention they had an economic advantage with a 25k bank, and better science and WPA having remained at a larger size for longer time. It would have required loads of strategic planning on our end to win this, and we wanted to prove we could do it, or at least have a shot at trying it.

And we proceeded this war with our best efforts; Not sure what you're insinuating with this statement "Pyro helping ED run from a war to get an easy win was lame
", but to say either ED "ran" and (A) arranged to let us win (no matter how well/poorly we fought) or (B) that this win would be easy for us, is simply not accurate.

[Elit]

I don't see the difference between 24 hours and 1 hour, as long as it is before end of the deal, it is legitimate. I see this as a risk you take for making a notice deal.

There is huge difference:
1. They cant wave because don't have trained his army, 24h later you will have max war protection so they cant gain and for same reason wont bother to train up.
2. They need to break his Deal. Its much more bad from "your run" or wave you in war. Chances for break deal is very small.

imo both ED and PewPew have lost the battle for crown since long ago. so why not mess up the charts. while everyone interested is raging about what they do or do not do, they are probably laughing hard since they dont care anymore. i expect more ****play on the way :D

Pew Pew never had chances for win land crown but its not important. Im interest from them more in psychological aspect because they are phenomenon. 3 ages ago when ABS double hostile us i was enough mad do consider farm out option for short, but its made me realize fast if we make it, KD will die. So many people wont stay in kd after it.
What we see in Pew Pew is how they farm out/reset on propose and have terrible age end for 3 ages in raw but ppl still dont leave this proven failure kd. So main question is: are most players in kd are Sadism-Masochist or something like it :D

[protector]

Did I complain when BB got acres on their banks from Havoc? That was also not fair to ED.

Let's not pretend as if you had any reason to complain about that... the reason you didn't is simple: because you are thankful they fought us so you didn't have to do it yourself. Based on intel we had, it wouldn't have ended very well for you and the odds of you having no banks left right now, would be pretty large.

[Runefire]

There is huge difference:
1. They cant wave because don't have trained his army, 24h later you will have max war protection so they cant gain and for same reason wont bother to train up.
2. They need to break his Deal. Its much more bad from "your run" or wave you in war. Chances for break deal is very small.

So what? That is the risk you pay for making a notice deal. If you make a deal and notice, you should expect people will do all they can to make an outcome that works best for them. That is the game. If you want to farm kingdoms on your schedule, don't make deals.

Pew Pew never had chances for win land crown but its not important. Im interest from them more in psychological aspect because they are phenomenon. 3 ages ago when ABS double hostile us i was enough mad do consider farm out option for short, but its made me realize fast if we make it, KD will die. So many people wont stay in kd after it.
What we see in Pew Pew is how they farm out/reset on propose and have terrible age end for 3 ages in raw but ppl still dont leave this proven failure kd. So main question is: are most players in kd are Sadism-Masochist or something like it :D

Some people just want to see the world burn?

Considering all the attention, discussion, crying and general butt hurt, I am sure Pew Pew are getting what they want. Stop crying fake war, stop interfering in their wars, stop talking about them and I am sure they will get sick of doing whatever they want to do :)

[ciupi]

LOL? so u have to pay a price for making a notice deal? that is hilarious....from what world are u coming? Notice deals are generally made exactly for the reason that both kds involved would have some time for preparation in case their CF degenerates into a conflict. Both kds agree to a period of notice time they think they can manage to get ready. The funny thing is that ED considers this notice time as time to find an arranged war after them doing stupid mistakes like exploring their pool and being completly pants down CFwise.

[Runefire]

LOL? so u have to pay a price for making a notice deal? that is hilarious....from what world are u coming? Notice deals are generally made exactly for the reason that both kds involved would have some time for preparation in case their CF degenerates into a conflict. Both kds agree to a period of notice time they think they can manage to get ready. The funny thing is that ED considers this notice time as time to find an arranged war after them doing stupid mistakes like exploring their pool and being completly pants down CFwise.

In case seems to be the key word.

Indeed, they are made to allow both kingdoms to prepare, IF they both want to war each other. But an end of CF is not an agreement to war, and if one party wants to war someone else and are able to do so (by freely waving or agreement) then they are free to do so.

[ciupi]

In case seems to be the key word.

Indeed, they are made to allow both kingdoms to prepare, IF they both want to war each other. But an end of CF is not an agreement to war, and if one party wants to war someone else and are able to do so (by freely waving or agreement) then they are free to do so.

It's not a matter if u want or not want to fight somebody with this system. If u are cought with ur pants down all u can do is either solve things diplo or fight. Jumping into an arranged war 1 hour be4 u know u will get waved is not any of the CASES!!!

[Elit]

In case seems to be the key word.

Indeed, they are made to allow both kingdoms to prepare, IF they both want to war each other. But an end of CF is not an agreement to war, and if one party wants to war someone else and are able to do so (by freely waving or agreement) then they are free to do so.

Back to my point: if you going to run, do it proper. If your war started ~~24h before notice expire you wont end waved oow from Fratzia. Hold till 1h from notice expire is asking to get waved.

[silverfox]

My logic is very simple. ED told us they are coming for us after 9 days war with pew pew. We had unfinished relation with pew pew. They had still dragon vs us and land we can take back from pew pew last wave. So ED block us from back our land from Pew Pew and same time put us in risk for get OOW dragon from Pew Pew. All this was hell lame and not moral. This forced us to explore in post war= loss pool+ loss acres from not hit Pew Pew. In short its cost us over 8k land.
AMA didn't run from ED, we stay oow and start fight back you with all disadvantages. Your bonce wave our cow, because you had x2 bigger core. Our cow left with 470k def. Both ED cows had close to 1 mill off and top 2 provinces in ED core had 420-430k off. Still AMA take all risk and declare WAR when cow was in DT range for both ED cows and we still manage to win this war. Before ED WD made max gains hits with his cow and take alone from 2 cow hits 3.5k acres. Still you cant protect this acres/cow in 1vs1 second round with us. Considering your lame vulture we decide to go round 2. Both kds was similar land size and both kds had 4 days for prepare. Stay and war us or trade land for CF was only correct and fair move from ED. You choice to CHEAT us x2 with Pew Pew and arrange wars so you can secure your cow acres. WE had full legit right to wave ED in both wars oow for back what is our. You cant use moral reasons when you don't play moral vs us. You guys cheat us bad and gained from it unfair advantage. Only reason we didn't hit you OOW is because i don't wanted ppl to say again we are greedy for acres when its about punish cheaters. Was very hard decision for us to not hit and give you CF.

You cant blame Fratzia for your bad play. You explored your acres before secure CF and they send notice. You did same to us, you offers us 48h notice and i proposed 72h till ED and BB was in progress ot set war but Part gone from irc for 30h+ (accident this was done from zauper in same time) and after it CR block BB with notice them and you refuse any kind CF with argument we have so many big provinces. Fratzia send you notice with same argument so eat your ****s and enjoy them.

No, you're logic is utterly retarded because you seem to believe just because AMA did something then every other KD should also be bound by that rule.

ED noticed you as they were allowed to under the agreement you had, there's not agreement that ED can't notice you if you just got out of war or lost land to a final wave, you just like to tag that on there and call it immoral because it makes you look better while the reality is it's irrelevant what position AMA were in, why do you think you're the person who writes the moral code for utopia?

It was your choice to not run from ED, no-one forced you to sit there, no-one forced you to not re-engage PewPew, so stop trying to make your own choices a factor that anyone else should care about. ED were in no obligation to give you a 2nd war, you just make up all these stupid as **** conditions that KDs should be bound to about how you should be allowed your 2nd wars vs. people, no-one cheated you outside of your own delusions of grandeur that make you think anyone owes you something.

You're just an idiot who likes to make up reasons why you deserve to get an advantage for your own KD, if you're stupid enough to notice a KD without an agreement to war once it expires and without knowing if that KD has any outs then you deserve to **** yourself over by training and not having a target. Serving notice doesn't mean you get a war, it means you're telling a KD that you're going to break your CF which logically means you normally intend to wave them, the KD being served isn't under any obligation to sit there and not war anyone else.

You keep crying that ED and PewPew were in "fake wars", yet neither KD has been punished for either of the wars. Both KDs knowing that the other one can't damage a certain portion of their KD doesn't mean a war is fake, how many other caveats are you willing to make up as you go along to decide when a war is fake or not? If a KD enters war knowing their bank can't be touched then is it a fake war, because they're getting war protection with no down sides? All 3 of EDs last wars have been real, I come back from the USA and I'm under 400 acres and almost dead, just because EDs banks gained protection doesn't make it a ****ing fake war you tool.

[Elit]

silverfox:
1. We didn't got notice from ED because we had no notice deal. They just refuse to gave us any and told clear going after us.
2. Your language break forum rules so guess you wont posting for 24h till you calm ;)

[silverfox]

silverfox:
1. We didn't got notice from ED because we had no notice deal. They just refuse to gave us any and told clear going after us.
2. Your language break forum rules so guess you wont posting for 24h till you calm ;)

1. Your whining is even more pathetic then.
2. "Fratzia send you notice with same argument so eat your ****s and enjoy them.", you can't actually make up how moronic some of you are.

[Anri]

Raise your hand if utopia was much better before Elit came back to play

[Runefire]

It's not a matter if u want or not want to fight somebody with this system. If u are cought with ur pants down all u can do is either solve things diplo or fight. Jumping into an arranged war 1 hour be4 u know u will get waved is not any of the CASES!!!

Why? Because you say so? There was no deal to war, so ED can fight whoever they want. Just because it doesn't suit you does not make it fake.

Back to my point: if you going to run, do it proper. If your war started ~~24h before notice expire you wont end waved oow from Fratzia. Hold till 1h from notice expire is asking to get waved.

Again, why?

There is no difference between 24 hours or 1 hour, if a deal is in place, the KD is free to do what they want.

[Elit]

There is no difference between 24 hours or 1 hour, if a deal is in place, the KD is free to do what they want.

There is huge difference. Fratzia wont trained up and rebuild. Mean they wont go train up and chances to hit you OOW is close to zero.

Raise your hand if utopia was much better before Elit came back to play

Feel free to pay me for not play ;)

[ciupi]

Why? Because you say so? There was no deal to war, so ED can fight whoever they want. Just because it doesn't suit you does not make it fake.



Again, why?

There is no difference between 24 hours or 1 hour, if a deal is in place, the KD is free to do what they want.

by ur logic i can freely say there is nothing wrong in hitting into a WAR!!! the rules say only have lower gains doing that not that u are not allowed to do that!