Thoughts on 'Dibs' and Definition of Hostile

[makeo]

And there is nth wrong what pew did to you end of last age. They wanted honour crown, and you couldn't defend your crown. They are not gg to say 'oh we will stop waving you and hence give you your crown'. It is unfortunate that simians were able to defend themselves and hence had to give up the crown. There is no free lunch in the world. Why should pew stop waving you when you were their direct competitor for honour crown?

On the other hand, what you did to pew this age is wtf. Almost disbanded them.

-CJ

Massive logical disconnect here.

If we assume that Pew2 could arrange a sci for land trade ( which they did) while organising for their high honor provs to maintain their honor(which they did), in order to go for the honor crown, while threatening unlimited waves. Then frankly Sims utilising their position to do unlimited waves until Ovenmitt leaves, due to hacking and forcing a fair play agreement is extremely ethical.

I don't believe a majority of the game would disagree with Sims actions.

[makeo]

And wtf?

I'm no Sims fan! But PewPew played it dirty last age and bullied them to **** with high chance of Ovenmitt playing for himself. So,
Sims at least when they pulled the similar **** back, gave a diplo fair play option and didn't go all in. **** negro, I'd have been way more evil.

I wouldn't have stopped as quickly as Sims did. Pew did more to disband a kd. Sims took the high road.

[tetley]

Lel what cJ??

Ovenmitt totally gutted simians last age, feeding honor crown(s) to pew deliberately and then leaving and joining Pew. He also leaked intel from their bot at beginning of age.

Why should Sims feel bad for seeking revenge and forcing ovenmitt to leave?

[Band of Horses]

Lel what cJ??

Ovenmitt totally gutted simians last age, feeding honor crown(s) to pew deliberately and then leaving and joining Pew. He also leaked intel from their bot at beginning of age.

Why should Sims feel bad for seeking revenge and forcing ovenmitt to leave?

Sims are at equal fault for having ****ty bot security. If you don't reset access that your own fault. I've jokingly quit a kd before and had bot access removed in the 5 minutes I was gone.
I don't think, and from what I have heard there is no evidence that Ovenmitt intentionally fed honor to Pew.

[tetley]

My understanding was he left just after age had already started which is why he still had access (but, I could be wrong on that)

[Band of Horses]

My understanding was he left just after age had already started which is why he still had access (but, I could be wrong on that)

That is no excuse. It is really easy to remove a user.

[makeo]

Are you a fool if you don't secure your ****?

Well, yes, of course you are.

There are bad people out there.

However, it is never has and never will be, the case that being a fool means that it what they did was right.

[makeo]

If I follow that logic, then Sims were even kinder. As they backed off, when the others didn't. :(

[Maximouse]

Can we get this back on topic? Debate was about what is a real hostile, how people see "dibs", and I would like to hear from elit/proteus how they view the "tax" (rather just call it acres in exchange for a CF).
Anri and myself pretty much explained the deal we made in diplo from both sides now. I saw zauper saying Elit and him made a simulair deal last age.

[Elit]

Can we get this back on topic? Debate was about what is a real hostile, how people see "dibs", and I would like to hear from elit/proteus how they view the "tax" (rather just call it acres in exchange for a CF).
Anri and myself pretty much explained the deal we made in diplo from both sides now. I saw zauper saying Elit and him made a simulair deal last age.

Far from true. Last age all kds had his motives for doing what they did, include Havoc give us land.

[tetley]

Last age all kds had his motives for doing what they did, include Havoc give us land.

yeah cause they were mad at bb :P

[makeo]

Initial topics over tbh. It's where it goes from here.

Dibs: Everyone thinks is retarded
Hostile: Everyone wants it to be a pure hostile you give, but with the current button mechanism, they think there is an issue. Basically give 8 hits into fortified and you can't beat an equal kd. Best you can do is 7..unless mechanisms change.
And that ain't a pure hostile.

Tax: Everyone's cool with acres for cf if you are behind, issue becomes when it's all open and it impacts on others.


Next!

[Elit]

Tax: Everyone's cool with acres for cf if you are behind, issue becomes when it's all open and it impacts on others.
Next!

Taking acres for CF is ok, its how game work for hell long. What did this age havoc is weird. You cant ask kd for acres to let him war other kd. Its **** play.

[Anri]

Lol. First I know full well the position of pyro at all times of the war vs simians. Guess that me being humble in the forums and stating that simians almost got us blah blah, you actually really bought it and thought you were in a great position. Maybe next time when we war, I don't have to be humble in victory when we own you. If you realized, in any of pyro-xx wars, I never put down my opponents when we war or prewar.

I know full well the peasant counts and ubness of both sides, and you guys couldn't fb me down and I was basically funding most of the drakes (same against bb in that war). Even you mentioned it yourself to me in pm that I did great being able to hit op and fund drake as a faery sage despite just doubling 48hrs before war :) (thanks for your compliments. )

And ofc, pyro knew that the 48hrs notice was crucial in our victory plans, and hence I tactically made you openly state it in the forums, cause if you had dealbroken... It would be in black and white that you dealbroke. *taps cj on his back*

You basically had stronger core(due to 'vulturing' us post war) but at the end of the day, our top feeding orcs and disciplined chaining made our core stronger than yours in the end. This is a classic example on how to fight a kingdom who has a stronger core than you.

Too bad we spoilt your masterplan for the age. And yes, I think this is my first 'say what you want and don't bother to be tactful' post in forums for quite some time.

Oh btw, I was 'defending' cr and simians decision for the 'tax' deal and it is funny how you decide to use my post to shoot me. Lol.

And there is nth wrong what pew did to you end of last age. They wanted honour crown, and you couldn't defend your crown. They are not gg to say 'oh we will stop waving you and hence give you your crown'. It is unfortunate that simians were able to defend themselves and hence had to give up the crown. There is no free lunch in the world. Why should pew stop waving you when you were their direct competitor for honour crown?

On the other hand, what you did to pew this age is wtf. Almost disbanded them.

-CJ

cJ, Nesta told me you and procy wanted to wd after the war was over.
it was a tuff fight and i think Nesta saved your ass.

Regarding pewpew:

I understand it such as when something happens to pewpew that they done to Simians 4 times at a much worse position you think it is unfair?
Does this mean you support the kind of ****play of telling the other KD they will get hit until there is nothing left out of thier KD and claim unlimited waves on them?

Its very interesting that you seem to support this. Also, the small thing we did towards Pewpew was a very small price for thier constant ****play over the last ages. I was willing to forget and this is why i granted them a CF and told them we should respect fair play, if the other kd cant fight and dont want to fight we make 2 waves kind of thing. Why? Because its the fair thing to do. You dont push the other KD into wars they cant possible win and you dont make these claims.

You can ofc maintain your stance that this kind of play is fair. After all, pewpew is your best buddies and i would not be suprised about you and them having a nice grande finale of this age. You guys are the only ones that used the GB situation in a way that you could grow and get a better chance at crowning. I am without words for how bad that is for the game.

Be careful what you wish for, when you think unlimited waves is okey, it can happen to us all.

[TheOne]

cJ, Nesta told me you and procy wanted to wd after the war was over.
it was a tuff fight and i think Nesta saved your ass.

Regarding pewpew:

I understand it such as when something happens to pewpew that they done to Simians 4 times at a much worse position you think it is unfair?
Does this mean you support the kind of ****play of telling the other KD they will get hit until there is nothing left out of thier KD and claim unlimited waves on them?

Its very interesting that you seem to support this. Also, the small thing we did towards Pewpew was a very small price for thier constant ****play over the last ages. I was willing to forget and this is why i granted them a CF and told them we should respect fair play, if the other kd cant fight and dont want to fight we make 2 waves kind of thing. Why? Because its the fair thing to do. You dont push the other KD into wars they cant possible win and you dont make these claims.

You can ofc maintain your stance that this kind of play is fair. After all, pewpew is your best buddies and i would not be suprised about you and them having a nice grande finale of this age. You guys are the only ones that used the GB situation in a way that you could grow and get a better chance at crowning. I am without words for how bad that is for the game.

Be careful what you wish for, when you think unlimited waves is okey, it can happen to us all.

Say what you like, but Nesta & me have been running our wars for the past x wars. and I have been running far more waves the last few wars due to Nesta being busy during those war periods. Though this age we had new recruits who have helped us alot. the score stands at 2-0 now, and both times were legit 1v1 wins (48hrs and 72hrs) :D Too bad I gotta act not so humble now :) wanted to be humble in victory but you usually piss people off so much that they decide to be meaniee!

Unless it can be proven that Ovenmitt intentionally gave the crown to Pew Pew by putting up a weak fight (or was it just Simians burnt out and not being able to perform?), Pew Pew isnt going to just wave you 2 times and tell you 'okay, I waved you two times. I'm going to FO and let your crown because I'm not supposed to wave more than two times'.

There is no free lunch in the world. If you are currently leading the honour chart and a kingdom thinks they can overtake you, you are not going to forbid them from waving you based on some 'rules&regulations' that you want to draw up here. Because that isnt going to happen. and the thing you did to Pew Pew this age isnt small at all btw, not sure what world are you living in.

Which brings us to the point on what you are trying to propose : (and I hope we can have a serious discussion on this)

'Kingdom A is only entitled to x waves off Kingdom B if Kingdom B does not wish to war with Kingdom A'

You proposed x = 2. While it seems okay in most situations, I dont think such a guideline can ever be enforced. And there are certain situations in which it is not feasible: i.e #2 chasing #1 in honour crown when they are close in nw, #2 kingdom waving #3 kingdom for acres to catch up to #1, and #1 cant interfere due to CFs with both #2 and #3 (if monarch of #3 is pro, he would settle things based on acres in quantity instead of amount of waves.. or just let his kingdom get waved).

In addition, what constitute a free wave? So many times you have mentioned in the forums that AMA did 7 free waves on Simians early this age, and I havent bothered to correct you.. because it isnt 7 free waves at all. You were retalling+oping back. As far as I know, free wave = retal-free + op-free hits back.

Which comes to the point, if you are going to give x free waves, why not just do diplomacy and agree on a fixed acres for cf deal? Which goes back to the point of why Kingdom A wants to wave you.. what benefits do they get etc. If it means to better strategically place themselves then there is definitely some reason, but if it's to disband a kingdom or just having a grudge against them, then yes there should be some limit to the amount of waves.

And it comes down to the survival of the fittest in the land/nw charts. It will come to a point where someone has to drop out during the age, and Kingdom A (who is waving Kingdom B) monarch must be able to do pro diplomacy so that he can gain xx waves/ xx acres without pissing off Kingdom B's monarch. The rationale is simple : we outplayed you and we are here to collect some acres, I am going to take as much as possible w/o pissing you off so that you wont raze me later on. And why do Kingdom B monarch agree to this? because he will be in the same position as Kingdom A monarch alot of times and know how is it like to be asking for acres.

Initial topics over tbh. It's where it goes from here.

Dibs: Everyone thinks is retarded
Hostile: Everyone wants it to be a pure hostile you give, but with the current button mechanism, they think there is an issue. Basically give 8 hits into fortified and you can't beat an equal kd. Best you can do is 7..unless mechanisms change.
And that ain't a pure hostile.

Tax: Everyone's cool with acres for cf if you are behind, issue becomes when it's all open and it impacts on others.


Next!

Not sure for dibs,

but there can be no clear definition of what constitute a hostile. The game is too dynamic for this to happen in my opinion. Sure, we can get the leaders of all the top few kingdoms to draft up a proposal, but it will take alot of time and there will be quite a fair bit of loopholes (due to the fact that the game is dynamic)

Tax/acres4cf : it happens. and it's mutual between both sides. (if Kingdom B doesnt want to give up acres, just go raze-retal instead. there's pros and cons of this). It becomes an issue when it impacts 3rd party kingdoms.. but let's face it, any decision you make affects a 3rd party kingdom in utopia.


-cJ