Age 61 potential changes comments.

[worldstrider]

Nice to see some of the suggestions that I and others made come to fruition :)

Some comments;

Avian - Nerfing one of the least used races isn't sensible :D Instead give them some sort of magic or thievery edge to make them an attractive A/M or A/T choice IMHO. Example, +40% damage when casting fireballs, or kidnapping, something that makes sense since they can fly! :D

Dwarf - Somewhat usable now but still weak IMHO. Again, some sort of A/M or A/T appeal could make this interesting. Example, greater effectiveness when casting Fool's gold, +35% resources stolen when thieving gc,runes,food. They are greedy! Haven't you seen Lord of the Rings? :P

Elves - Wow they are becoming even greater ultimate solid attackers with 5/4, didn't see that one coming! Legolas would be proud.

Faery - Nice changes. This should convert a lot of Elves across. With mystic that is some serious Mana recharge, holy cow :D

Halfling - Frodo baggins is sad. But maybe as Merchant + stacked with lots of homes which are 10 now... Could be interesting.

Human - They basically just picked up a free personality!! WOW. Human galore next age for sure!!!

Orcs - Nice balancing. Combined with massacre strength buff and emerald dragon buff + bloodlust + new casualty bonus they could do some SERIOUS HEAVY DUTY damage! Perhaps TOO much damage? With pitfalls too you are probably talking well over +100% casualties...!

UD - Cheaper leets? They were the most chosen race this age. Now you give them cheaper leets :P

Merchant - not bad, could work with dwarf or halfling quite well.

Sage - nice

Rogue - needs TD effectiveness or something extra.

Rest - decent enough!

[Sheister]

for those that think rogue double TD bonus is overpowered, then give rogues 50% thief losses on ops. That is the only reason people are pushing for it. Think about it? I just did no TD's on me SoT run on a KD in fort. I was sending 10% of my thieves per op which was 2K thieves. I was losing 100 thieves on a fail and I was losing up to 50 or so from repulsion on successes. Figure on average 12 per successful op. I did 38 ops. I failed 7 of those. So that is 700 + 31*12 = 1072 in thief losses just grabbing SoTs (my actual losses, since I retrained them were 1086). I am playing a human sage with 125% crime science and 3.5 tpa raw. So, it costs me 1072*500= 536,000 gold just to get SoT's?

I am sorry, thats freaking retarded. Thief losses need to be blanket reduced (as I suggested in other threads here) or at a minimum, rogues need 50% thief losses.

[Bukharistan]

Don't take SOTs as human sage. Let your attackers do it.

[loky]

Fix thievery vs magic honor system.

[Bo To]

for those that think rogue double TD bonus is overpowered, then give rogues 50% thief losses on ops. That is the only reason people are pushing for it. Think about it? I just did no TD's on me SoT run on a KD in fort. I was sending 10% of my thieves per op which was 2K thieves. I was losing 100 thieves on a fail and I was losing up to 50 or so from repulsion on successes. Figure on average 12 per successful op. I did 38 ops. I failed 7 of those. So that is 700 + 31*12 = 1072 in thief losses just grabbing SoTs (my actual losses, since I retrained them were 1086). I am playing a human sage with 125% crime science and 3.5 tpa raw. So, it costs me 1072*500= 536,000 gold just to get SoT's?

I am sorry, thats freaking retarded. Thief losses need to be blanket reduced (as I suggested in other threads here) or at a minimum, rogues need 50% thief losses.

Bad arguments. The big problems of rouges arent the "not doubled TD's", or too many loses but the gold dragon and CS. If you are good enough(3.5 raw tpa rogue is bad) you wouldn't need double TD. Faeries have tog to retrain them, halfers have cheaper thieves. Just because you want to play something else as rogue, which isnt bad, doesnt mean you must have such bonus to be able to play it :).

Mages need double guild effectiveness because pumping wiz is harder than thieves and takes more time. So when u lose wizz because failed spell you will need much more time to retrain those wizz than rouge will to retrain thieves. Runes is bigger problem for them... and I hope there will be something about it :).

[Sheister]

Wow, you guys are missing the point entirely. I am not playing a rogue. I am an attacker. The numbers above were so you all could see the base losses. Why do people always get buried in the weeds?

The overall part is, thief losses are very high. Even as a halfer rogue that run would likely have cost around 125K gc. Does anyone think that it should cost 125k gc to take SoT on all 25 provinces in a KD? If the answer is no, then something has to be done about losses. Now add higher difficulty ops into the mix. SoT is the EASIEST op int he game right?

So lets do easy to moderate level sabotage ops. Then that is a 20% increase in fail rate. so the cost of doing easy to moderate sabotage ops for that halfer across 36 ops is 150k gc. Do the hard ops and the fail rate doubles. and the cost is 250-300k. Take a faery TM that should be spending all its mana on tog to replace thieves and you quickly see how this is simply too punishing to TMs.

[Felixier]

Thief losses need to be blanket reduced (as I suggested in other threads here) or at a minimum, rogues need 50% thief losses.

this +1. Thieves die way too fast. one failed op i lose hundreds of thieves. Thieves are meant to come and go easily since you can pay to retrain them sure but the guaranteed failures really does a number on a single op run.

[Bukharistan]

Perhaps remove the guaranteed failure and make WTs increase the % of ops failed compared to having no WTs?

Let's say a halfer ops an Orc, and the TPA ratios give him a 10% failure rate. WTs could add a % to that failure rate. So with 15% WTs on 100% BE the failure rate would double? Right now, if you go Dwarf/Tactician and build 15% WTs on 30% BE and cast CS, even if you have 0 thieves you still prevent 50% of all thievery ops!

[loky]

Bring back colors in forums!

[Bo To]

The overall part is, thief losses are very high. Even as a halfer rogue that run would likely have cost around 125K gc. Does anyone think that it should cost 125k gc to take SoT on all 25 provinces in a KD? If the answer is no, then something has to be done about losses. Now add higher difficulty ops into the mix. SoT is the EASIEST op int he game right?

T/Ms dont take sot/som they use their stealth for ops. And y there should be loses for rogues otherwise they will have huge income and become OP. If a faery has to tog whole day to replace thieves that lost better not to play faery. Also rogues can return part of their loses with prop. Build good economy with good BE and 10-15% TD and you should be fine. It's a matter of skills ;). FYI homes are getting buffed this age so t/ms should have better BE therefore better TD efficiency.

If I'm rogue and play against tact I wont op him unless MV is done :). That CS is strong I admit, sapf/gold dragons f*ck up rogue a lot I admit that too, however it doesn't mean you have to buff rogue. They are made to counter rogues.

And btw I'm just saying but at 2k acres undead with 10-11 epa has 800-900 elites losses on attack... buff the undead pls... -50% losses not enough(sarcasm). You have big losses on thieves because you are big and have huge number of thieves - just admit that you lose 1-2k thieves which is equal to 0.1-0.2 tpa.

[tiggis]

T/Ms dont take sot/som they use their stealth for ops. And y there should be loses for rogues otherwise they will have huge income and become OP. If a faery has to tog whole day to replace thieves that lost better not to play faery. Also rogues can return part of their loses with prop. Build good economy with good BE and 10-15% TD and you should be fine. It's a matter of skills ;). FYI homes are getting buffed this age so t/ms should have better BE therefore better TD efficiency.

If I'm rogue and play against tact I wont op him unless MV is done :). That CS is strong I admit, sapf/gold dragons f*ck up rogue a lot I admit that too, however it doesn't mean you have to buff rogue. They are made to counter rogues.

And btw I'm just saying but at 2k acres undead with 10-11 epa has 800-900 elites losses on attack... buff the undead pls... -50% losses not enough. You have big losses on thieves because you are big and have huge number of thieves - just admit that you lose 1-2k thieves which is equal to 0.1-0.2 tpa.

Thieves have no right to talk about losses.
A wizard's wpa after a AW run is a true story of losses.
And you cant just buy them back.

[tiggis]

Something I have been thinking about is War Hero.
They need a little offensive boost to truly be a War Hero.
Most of the good bonuses are taken by spells and races and personalities.
But It thought up a bonus that is not taken, actually fits war hero and it kinda cool.

Warhero gets a random bonus to ME (1% - 10%) that changes each tick.
So one hour you might get +5% and the next +2%.
I think that is kinda sexy and unique.

Thoughts?

[Bukharistan]

Not sure if Elf is an option for a pure Mage anymore. Faeries have more mana, and now they can slay with elites. It's harder for them to lose troops to propaganda against a super thief. Also, faeries can cast CS to guard against pure thieves, saving up a lot of space else used on WTs. AND they have a full spellbook. Think Elf is only really for A/M this age.

[Andurilas]

Faeries ain't got no CS

[Bo To]

Not sure if Elf is an option for a pure Mage anymore. Faeries have more mana, and now they can slay with elites. It's harder for them to lose troops to propaganda against a super thief. Also, faeries can cast CS to guard against pure thieves, saving up a lot of space else used on WTs. AND they have a full spellbook. Think Elf is only really for A/M this age.

CS is given to tact - faery/tact would have CS... but who would play faery/tact :D. Also elfs take 5 point HP from dragon for 350, faeries might do it for much more. Elf/mage has one mana less than faery/mage but again: not the mana is the problem the runes are. Elfs have +30% wpa which helps a lot for ms/chastity/greed/pf. Those spells arent affected by any of faeries bonuses, also faery/mage cant tog so much(because have to cover with other spells). About thieves ops - I dont see why faery/mage is better protected than elf/mage. As I see from the proposed changes faeries wont have MS, chastity, amnesia and CS. All of this are important spells so they(faeries) dont have full spellbook.