AMA & BB ruin the game

[tetley]

odd ...

#prayforjd

[Cello]

Sheister is an old man :P

Old man living in his mother's basement then :P

[Palem]

Easy fellas

[protector]

Probably hard to believe but I voted NO on the poll. I dont think BB and AMA are ruining the game. I do think that their alliance, or friendly relations or whatever they will call it now is bad for the game. As they said themselves, they are 2 of the 3 best kd's left in the game. Who actualy made a pact to deal with the 3rd KD.
Is there a realistic chance for real competition in that scenario? Only if CR goes for NW/acres full force, or if other KD's improve their line up, or knowledge, or activety, or a combination of those 3.

Last age Darkie (1 of the leaders in BB) and I talked a bit about how the top functions and we both believe that the top is way too narrow for alliances. Last age it was pyro/pew2/rbl and ama complained. This age its ama/bb working together from the looks of it while the other kd's dont. Still waiting on AMA to complain this age. Or is it only unfair when its against AMA?

Our friendship just goes back a bunch of ages, from a time where Absalom still existed.
How is the 2v1 as you see it any different from the 4v2 or even 4v1? Like age 55, we were solo against Mercy, Sanc, HoH and Rage. We had neutral relations with HoH as flogger and ravenant knew each other well, but we had to fight the other 3.

When this age started, you guys where probably friendly with Rage. And you had a CF acquired with pewpew. We had a CF with each other.

Last age, everyone CFed each other but refused to CF AMA/BB. (altho CR had a CF with AMA, nobody else did)
Situations like that just make the bond stronger. When Absalom got GBed, it usually got stronger.

An age lasts say 3 months. Every 3 months it starts all over and others get in control.

ps. this just seems some big troll from Sheister... just can't believe he's serious ;p

[Sheister]

Old man living in his mother's basement then :P

Please..... my wife's basement.... I would say mine, but married men know who owns the house.....regardless of who pays for it.

[Sheister]

ps. this just seems some big troll from Sheister... just can't believe he's serious ;p

I am serious that I think it is disgusting to take advantage of the bounce mechanics that the developers refuse to fix because Bishop does not understand that it is a problem and no matter how many times people point it out, it does not get through to him. This means, to most of you that it is legal and therefore should be used.

I don't abuse it. I have never abused it. I find the way that others blithely do disgusting. The "top" does and likes to abuse things. It just something I don't understand. Its like the kids that abuse methods of getting enemies stuck in First Person Shooter games like half-life so they don't have to actually try to do the boss fight. Its just sad. While I can understand the desire to abuse things when you are incapable of winning any other way, the desire to do so when you have every advantage, you have talked to Tox and you know he is CHOOSING not to run away, and all the other things that led up to this, bouncing was just a scumtastic move. Its ok though, all your buddies back you up and think its straight up play for the top. So feel fine. I just was never into abusing cheap loopholes and bugs and things of that nature. I think people who do are like the little cheat kiddies.

It is conduct like yours that turns people off to playing this game. That you and those like you can't see that, is why ultimately the developers won't be able to save utopia. If you and your kingdom could curb your selfishness and have confidence in your abilities to compete without abusing mechanics, I might have some shred of respect for your kingdom, but I don't.

From what I can tell, AMA, BB and CR all think it is pro tactics to abuse mechanics. When one of them crosses the line they get labeled cheaters, the others (who are just happy they did not get tagged) like to get on the bandwagon and call the third cheaters. You are all like 5-year-olds with your made up rules and "this is how you have to play if you want to grow up and play with us" attitude. You all change the rules to whatever you want them to be so that you win instead of playing within the rules. I won't even mention the laughable concept of the spirit of the rules as none of you have any concept of the spirit of the rules.

You all make a part of me very sad because of the number of players in your ranks that I had thought of as friends. Some mentored me long ago. Many are players that I mentored. That they can play with you all in this farce is a disappointment to me. I am sure you all like to call this whining, or QQ or whatever. I disagree. While some of my posts were pretty over the top (its the internet /me shrugs) I have to say I just honestly find the lack of what I think of as the common gamer ethos in the top shocking. Now, I am old, so I grew up gaming when we rolled dice on table tops at each other and people who bent the rules all the time were just not invited back. We all were friends and shared a beer as we pushed our little mini's around and what not. This combination of internet tough guy and abuse that I see here is just truly sad. Would any of you treat people like this around a gaming table?

(This is a good point to respond to Korp's misunderstanding of the "I spit on you" comment, it is a movie reference..... it was a joke..... but perhaps too old pp culture for some to understand.)

Its funny because my kids who are teens were interested in trying utopia. I would love to have shared the good things in the game with them. I will tell you all quite honestly, I turned them away from it. What this game has become is largely among the worst that gaming has to offer. I would not recommend learning or trying this game to anyone. I have only stayed this long because of a desire to talk to long term friends. Sadly, I almost never get to anymore we have all dispersed to so many other kingdoms. If it were not for that I would have been gone long ago. I probably should have just stayed happily retired after a very good age with monolith in age 34.

So look, let me bury all the bull**** and posturing and ask you all this simple thing. If you wanted to bring people into competition in this game and you wanted them to have a good time and stay, how would you treat them? If we all could start treating each other like that, instead of with the shabbiness that I see in these forums every day and in the KD-KD interactions every day, I think there is a chance to save this game. I never see anything as bad as this in any other online strategy environment. I don't see it with axis and allies (talk about an old game), I don't see it in Civ, etc. The only place you see this kind of treatment and abuse of mechanics is where all of the good players have left and all that is left behind is the crap. As I am still here, I would like to think that we all are better than crap. If we all could start playing together like we WANT to play together, this could become a good game again. At least I think it could.

[Crazy Pete]

Elit already mentioned he's not a fan of bounce waves that there should be points for every bounce given. BB's set up favors them using a bounce wave tactic, not all kingdoms set up the same way. Unless the developers change the bounce point system on the meter I don't expect people will stop using the tactic.

Some say it's a tactic to bring down cows/UB's but 95% of the time it's being used by a top kingdom targeting another top kd's cow. I have rarely seen it used by a random ghetto to try to drop down a cow, so one could argue it's not being used enough to worry about?

[Sheister]

Pete,

Things are often not used enough to worry about..... until they are.

I think somewhere in the midst of all my ranting and raving I mentioned a time that Pulse bounced an unbreakable human in a war I was in. They were avians, we were slower humans. It was early age so we had no rax up. They were a full wave ahead so they used a wave to bounce. That is one situation where I saw it used. There are a couple of differences between that and the uses most smaller kingdoms put bouncing to and what is done by pew pew and BB and a lot of other KDs when playing undead core and so on and so forth. In that case we were already at war and both kingdomas had access to the full range of options to deal with strategies. In the instant cases, it was done to avoid or delay giving relations and was also done, not because the cow was not breakable, but because they wanted to avoid risk. To me these are vastly different situations. If BB's orcs or pews dwarves had, through bouncing given the button, there would be no problem with them choosing such a tactic because it means a free for all on their core. While a cow might get lost, there would be a terrible price paid for it. BB /pewpew might have opted to pay that price anyway.

There is, I think an alternative to explore other than having bounces add points onto the meter. That is to scrap this relations system which seems to be the fount of more problems than solutions to me. I was sold on that possibility once upon a time by octobrev. I will see if I can find his post and arguments about it and link it here.

Interestingly, I did mention to people in four kingdoms that using orcs to bounce like this was possible because the relative damage (as opposed to having no losses at all under the old 0% offensive casualty undead bounce abuse of old) is really what is more important. That is, if I have 0 casualties and cause you 1500 deaths or I have 600 casualties and cause you 2100 deaths, I am still altering our relative armies by 1500 difference.

[flogger]

If a kingdom is trading 8 percent of its offense and all of its peasantry and 10 percent of its land (if it got waved). To take 30 percent of one provinces troops away (equal to about 75 nightstrikes) its not the bouncing thats imbalanced, its the cow, or more specifically going from 480a/ day to 1200a/day in particular. The cow would go from 11k to 7-8k and after the war have all the pool it needs to get right back where it started

Pretty much all the top ****play these days focuses on that change

[munk]

From what I can tell, AMA, BB and CR all think it is pro tactics to abuse mechanics. When one of them crosses the line they get labeled cheaters, the others (who are just happy they did not get tagged) like to get on the bandwagon and call the third cheaters.

Believe I went into this thread and did the exact opposite of what you're saying. So... You're posting too much, if others are like me, they stop reading your wall of texts (Constructive critism.). Consider that.

[PhoenixScorpion]

Probably hard to believe but I voted NO on the poll. I dont think BB and AMA are ruining the game. I do think that their alliance, or friendly relations or whatever they will call it now is bad for the game. As they said themselves, they are 2 of the 3 best kd's left in the game. Who actualy made a pact to deal with the 3rd KD.
Is there a realistic chance for real competition in that scenario? Only if CR goes for NW/acres full force, or if other KD's improve their line up, or knowledge, or activety, or a combination of those 3.

Last age Darkie (1 of the leaders in BB) and I talked a bit about how the top functions and we both believe that the top is way too narrow for alliances. Last age it was pyro/pew2/rbl and ama complained. This age its ama/bb working together from the looks of it while the other kd's dont. Still waiting on AMA to complain this age. Or is it only unfair when its against AMA?

I still think it is hilarious how you people in CR talk about your KD so highly when you havent really accomplished anything and have lost more wars than you have won during your run. Putting yourself remotely in same league with AMA or BB is laughable at best. Just because on paper you guys have a roster of well known players doesnt mean you are good. I would be the first to give you accolades when you actually show some consistency and skill . Dont brag about your crown either, brag when you get it without a GB.

[Maximouse]

Sorry protector, your misinformed yet again. We are friendly with rbl indeed. But CF with pew2 only came after they approached us for it, which was after our 2 wars I think and during our hostiles that emidiately followed those wars. It was around the same time we asked bb and ama if CF's were an option or not.

Last age we had 0 allies or friends. We just played the age pretty oldschool whoring style. CF all that might pose a threat early on. Let everybody fight eachother and whore away and pump. We did that without allies. Without coordinating with anybody. Without making a pact with anybody to block any KD. And unlike the conspiracy theory claims, without multies or whatever crap got posted by elit and others.

How that is not different from the 2 self proclaimed strongest kd's in the game having a pact against the 3rd kd, and those 2 kd's actualy timing notices and waves so that they help eachother against everybody else near them (sure, there isnt any coordination. Its just pure luck the timing is soo good, right?) is beyond me.

Is AMA ruining the game? No
Is BB ruining the game? No

Their refusal to fight eachother and the amount of coordinated actions against clearly weaker opponents is though. And its a shame neither KD can see that. But its not really ruining the game I guess. Its just effecting the topplay.

[Maximouse]

Sorry PS, your bs isnt worth responding to.

[cRs]

I don't get it why all this sh^t trowed to this 2 kds this age. They did great and owned the land/nw top.
How? by playing this game by his rules... Why? cuz they did better than the others.. and thats about it. So many complaining about theyr actions, theyr strats, theyr powerplay... every other kd would do the same in theyr position, its normal that they secure theyr 1&2 spot by any mean and will wave/war/ask for land on whoever puts that in risk - and no, they will never give them a "fair fight" because they dont have to...

The game aint perfect, everyone agrees, but so its life... move on and do better(or just 3D :P). Many complains, few actually does.. they did it this age, congratz. We will ever see a war between them? maybe we do, if they have 1&2 secured and will have a fair war for crown, if not most problablly they will talk that trough aswell. The age is over allready regarding top nw/land, so nothing else to see here ;)

[Chrystal Palace]

i see nothing wrong with what BB did. it was a good strategy and as palem likes to remind people this is a strategy game. i do think we should have had ops while they bounced us though. but oh well. anyway i will take good relations with kuhans kd and elits kd. from all stand points elit has a good memory and isnt afraid to FSU.