Undead promotons from all hits

[mandrake]

like the title says. if your gonna nerf undead this much least u should do to balance it out is allow for promotions on learns razes and plunders...

this will round out the undead and not make it completely useless as it will currently be.

i am aware they needed to be nerfed based of this age pop levels but at least make it a balanced nerfing :)

[chullen]

I agree, I wont expect to see undead next age

[Engman]

Undeads need something, and i don't think they will go live into age 62 as they are in the proposed changes, neither will humans probably. What undeads need is a strong offensive specialist to pull this off, if they can't control their elite production they will need some ambush protectiong (stronger specs). The difference between 4 and 7 with all these OME% modifiers is just too big at the moment.

[Bishop]

Promotions on non land hits is really really open to abuse.

[mandrake]

open to abuse i am very unsure how that could be the case when a undead cant even train a elite...

u give them only 1 way to gain elites thru attacks then u limit it to Trads.

conquest and ambush dont even work yet you say land attacks.

realy it should be all attacks if your gonna limit that race in such a insanly unfair way.

if u give it this at least it might just reach the avain pop levels for this age 211 currently... where currently i think u will see a record low in a single race for a number of ages.

at least give the undead a fighting chance at a choice for kds... right now i have it on my ban list in my kd because in its current form it is completly useless.

but give it promotions on all hits and i think why it would still be a painful slow way to gain elites it mght actualy work.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Promotions on non land hits is really really open to abuse.

afaik, when undeads couldnt train elites back in the time - ppl had to intra drop themselves to pump provs.. attacking to pump elites will actually make you fatter unless you are retalled and i dont think the necessity to arrange retals would be the intention.. the other option is designing undead to actually include a lot of off specs in their war shape - but i feel this would be quite a nerf with the current changes unless their elite value is increased or promotion rate is drastically increased..

[Gidoza]

Adding it to Conquest and Ambush could be interesting - at least Conquest.

[Bishop]

open to abuse i am very unsure how that could be the case

0 gc or 0 sci hits on friends.

[Uhm hoi]

I thought the conversion rate was tied to the gains formula. 0 gains would result in 0 promotions, no?

[Tadpole]

0 gc or 0 sci hits on friends.

Make actual gains a variable? Tricky coding though for sure.

[Tadpole]

I thought the conversion rate was tied to the gains formula. 0 gains would result in 0 promotions, no?

Conversion is tied to raw troop # sent, mod def (oversending doesn't increase convertions) and modded by RPN (relative prov nw) and possibly RKN (relative kd nw). Meaning that you'd get the most conversions sending the most amount of troops on an attack (without oversending) on a prov of equal size (possibly in an equally sized kd). Many variables coincide with the gains formula. But conversions isn't tied directly to it afaik.

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

what is the measure on learn/plunder gains? if a target has 100k gc and i plunder him for 75k gains - is this low gains or a lot of gains? if it is percentage based, gains percentage wont change between a 100k plunder or 1000k plunder.. and if 1000k plunder will yield more gains than 500k plunder, that still could be abused as well since gc is still there, just changing sides with each hit..

0 gc or 0 sci hits on friends.

we cant find a solution to tie it into gains formula, but i cant really see why is plundering each other is different than trading land? i can abuse trad marchs just as well, since quad tap vs single tap doesnt change elites gained if the sum of def broken is same and i can find an undead or even another friend to trade land with me to pump elites.. one can argue that trad march is more costly because of rebuilding process but it could be override by giving increased (double?) conversion rate for land attacks..

[makeo]

Fort to Fort, or eowcf to eowcf hits to pump elites is back again I see. :o

[Tadpole]

what is the measure on learn/plunder gains? if a target has 100k gc and i plunder him for 75k gains - is this low gains or a lot of gains?

Gains = Target Resource * Attack Type * PNF * KNF * GBP * GS * Race * Stance * Relations * Science * Target Stance * Attack time modifier
* Anonymity

Base gains for plunder = 50% gold, 60% food and 60% runes. Max gains is 1.35x base (67.5% gold, 81% runes/food).

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

Gains = Target Resource * Attack Type * PNF * KNF * GBP * GS * Race * Stance * Relations * Science * Target Stance * Attack time modifier
* Anonymity

Base gains for plunder = 50% gold, 60% food and 60% runes. Max gains is 1.35x base (67.5% gold, 81% runes/food).

i know those formulas, but thats not what i meant.. if my target has 10 gold and i plunder him for 6 gold, is this a full gains scenario? what bishop stated as abuse is trading hits for no 'actual' gains, which is the scenario here.. im gaining 6 gold which is max gains considering my target has 10 gold, but it is 0 gains actually..

what i stated in my previous post is, that the scenario with abusing is no different with land gains too..