FS vs ED: FS brings in out of hostile help?

[flogger]

Then I have to assume that BB did in fact direct Pyro to get involved.

Palem - we didn't recruit dorje #readingcomprehension

[protector]

Not sure how much of the above you'd already spoken to Parth about, I did try to be clear that I didn't know the exact timings of a lot of things (I was away most of the weekend as well), but it gives what I would consider a reasonable overview of the timeline to people not involved (also tried to remain unbiased).

I'm not trying to paint it as ED offering FS a 100% even fight, but rather to show that it wasn't just a case of ED being hell bent on killing FS at any costs. ED offered FS some time to war and prep, they could have taken it and lost (if they thought they would) then moved on, but they refused to war and then refused any CF offers, something they spent weeks complaining at ED for doing.

Them having a terrible setup isn't really an excuse for anything, they made their choices at the start of the age, it's like me picking a 25 T/M KD then crying foul when someone tries to make terms which doesn't include a long hostile.

I'd say their honour is relevant, what would they have lost if they wared ED and had to WD? Land and honour. What would they have lost if they had a 1, 2, 3 week hostile vs. ED? Land and honour, probably a lot of T/M power and maybe sci. What was one of the key points in EDs CF offers which were declined as being unreasonable? FS giving ED honour. The fairly reasonable conclusion is that FS didn't want to giveup any free honour to ED, yet are more than happy to harvest it in an AWAR where the other KD doesn't fight back.

The key point I'm trying to convey is that even after having provs raze killed and reset they were still #1 honour KD, gives an insight of how much they farmed from that war and it's not like they had to grind out (x) hard wars to get to #1 so ED were trying to rob them of some hard work. Maybe someone knows just how much they gained from the war, it seemed like ~10k acres (?) but I don't know the honour.

As for who in BB, that should probably be directed towards your own council to find out who authed it or towards your own allies who were making the claims about BB council.

Changing the timeline puts things in a different perspective and makes it look better/worse.

The extra time wouldn't have done anything for em if it meant giving up a button. Your setup is better for a quick declare. I understand why they declined. I think 2 days with a guaranteed declare by them witthin 24h of button and no fort staring may have gotten you a war.

I didn't say honor isn't relevant, I said from whom they got it is. And it isnt :p everyone gets part of their honor in uneven fights, is it worth less?

Your key point doesn't really make a lot of sense tho. You reset a prov it has 1800 honor. Getting a knight/peasant killed actually boosts your kingdom honor.

[silverfox]

I don't know flogger, there's a whole bunch of people posting about a conflict which has nothing to do with ED/FS directly in this thread & while I don't have anything against ABS/BB/individuals on either side (nor do I favour either side) I'm pretty sure you can understand why the ABS side would like to know exactly what happened.

I assume you'd agree that if BB council are on one hand spanking people over giving advice which would be considered "****play" while on the other giving out that same kind of advice to others then people would have a right to be concerned? If it's not true that this happened, then I would again assume that BB would be concerned with a) not allowing false info to damage their rep and b) looking at why other people are spreading that info in the first place.

======

citadela01 - I'll reply tomorrow.

[protector]

Just want to point out that nowhere in the offer we sent to FS did we require them to have troops out when they gave button (with the obvious exception of the one hit that brought it to hostile). They were free to make the seven first hits whenever they pleased during that uto day. The only requirement was that they would give button 2 hours before day change, how they went about doing that was up to them.

That was pretty unclear from convo. There was no mention of that. It would have been relatively hard anyway

I'm wondering the same thing. Apparently, he didnt just justify it, he suggested it. How is that very different from the stuff you organized a whole gangbang on Emeriti for?

You need to stop your selective reading. The one I quoted and responded to talks about "justified".

Just rolled over? You might recall we were getting gangbanged by 6?...7?..kds. I lost count. We did what we could do and probably better than most could have done in that situation. But it was virtually impossible to beat you all. You also might recall what the whole gangbang was supposedly abt. So now that it's come out that a BB council member sent Pyro to double hostile ED, it would be fabo if flogger/prot could give us some answers on the matter. Protector was just reading this thread. But he didnt reply to the questions :(

Neither me not flogger nor anyone else in our kd whom I asked have.

[jwuzi]

So someone lied!

[StratOcastle]

Sometimes good people lie and evil people offer good advice. It's how we get life lessons from Fat Albert on both ends of the moral scale.

[Felonious]

You need to stop your selective reading. The one I quoted and responded to talks about "justified".

I've seen the screenshots and logs though. Thats why I said he didnt just justify it, he "suggested" it. (he used that very word!)

[protector]

flogger and prot both respond, both ignore the pretty serious allegation =\

Im slacking behind a few pages and I respond as I catch up.
We didnt ask Pyro to wave ED no.

Then I have to assume that BB did in fact direct Pyro to get involved.

Eh, if thats what you wanna assume, be my guest.

[protector]

I've seen the screenshots and logs though. Thats why I said he didnt just justify it, he "suggested" it. (he used that very word!)

Go back to the post I quoted. /shakes head

[Felonious]

Neither me not flogger nor anyone else in our kd whom I asked have.

Ooh, I missed this part. Are you saying Nesta faked the whatsapp convo and lied abt it???

[Felonious]

Go back to the post I quoted. /shakes head

I didnt misunderstand your post the 1st time around. I was just saying that, according to Nesta and the whatsapp convo, he didnt just justify it, he suggested it! Jeez...

[Parth]

Changing the timeline puts things in a different perspective and makes it look better/worse.

The extra time wouldn't have done anything for em if it meant giving up a button. Your setup is better for a quick declare. I understand why they declined. I think 2 days with a guaranteed declare by them witthin 24h of button and no fort staring may have gotten you a war.

I didn't say honor isn't relevant, I said from whom they got it is. And it isnt :p everyone gets part of their honor in uneven fights, is it worth less?

Your key point doesn't really make a lot of sense tho. You reset a prov it has 1800 honor. Getting a knight/peasant killed actually boosts your kingdom honor.

I dont know. We're pretty heavy on clerics while elfs have no reduced losses anymore. We're just old dogs trying to learn new tricks, and tho I dont see the point of dragged hostiles in warring tier, we adjusted our setup to fit just that bill after our brush in with FS last age.

The way I see it, our setup is BETTER fit for long hostile compared to FS. Our setup is also better fit for war then FS setup is. I think I would sum it up with that their setup is crap. We've played the NM heavy part so many times, when I look at FS it seems like its their first dance with it.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Didnt dorje invent the stop hitting for a few hours so another abs kd could wave play? As with everything not nice..... It all starts from the same place #blamedingo

This was an old tactic of the Covenant alliance. Eventually there was an alliance meeting with Covenant, Abs, and other alliances around at the time and there was a definition of "hostile" formed. Absalom was generally against a specific definition sine once it was defined then people would look to abuse the loopholes with it. In the end, we did agree on the definition which included that if a kingdom had offered ingame cf and had not hit for at least 12h then a third party kingdom could consider the hostile over for the aggressor kingdom. After it was defined, it was a regular tactic to abuse this definition. The one time dorje used it was after AMA had been noticed by havoc and then decided to b2b Sanc to try and dodge havoc despite Sanc being well below war range. Elit stated he would never cf sanc all age unless he got a long cf with Havoc and Havoc didn't want to give him more than an extra week or something.

Now please stop trying to derail the thread and instead answer why BB authorized Pyro to wave ED into active 1v1 hostile to help FS.

[bombdigie]

Now please stop trying to derail the thread and instead answer why BB authorized Pyro to wave ED into active 1v1 hostile to help FS.

What you going to do about it? Whine in forums? Stop wasting your breath and pick up the pieces of your pathetic alliance that got stomped so we can do it again next age. Remember it was the actions of your alliance that forced us to form ours.

[Palem]

That's the impression I'm getting.


Please don't ***** next age when the standard you guys have set is thrown in your face.