Folle is multiing

[Folle]

We haven't seen 15 concurrent hitters at any point, so you are most likely lying (again) about it. If the most we've seen is about 9 concurrent hitters, and the majority if not all got deleted (haven't checked), there couldn't be more than 5 people (1 from you (let's say you didnt cheat) and the minimum 2 per 4 players (8 total) in order to get deleted). Everything you have ever said or done regarding retribution against us has been a complete lie.

If you tell me which one is your province is I'll be sure to raze it, but you won't because you can only take action under anonymity like the true coward you are.

I havent seen any proof of deleted provinces. Lets start there. Aint the first time you make fake accusations ;)

I'll be the Last province in the chain on your lowest defense province in ~7 ticks. Feel free to raze me then and add to the number of acres I may raze from you.

[Palem]

Palem can you please change the topic of this thread?

This is a personal attack on me, accusing me of cheating. I havent had a province deleted in ~20 ages. I already reported this thread, nothing happened.

thanks.

Even if they are wrong, it's a legitimate theory about what was happening. Users are allowed to post thread topics that are incorrect. When people start posting things like "Folle has a drinking problem and beats his wife" I'll be glad to take it down for you.

This is where you are getting confused. Like I have been saying, in order to have an intelligent discussion you have to clearly define your terms, if you don't, then concepts start to mesh together instead of having a clear starting and ending point.

You keep referring back to the laymen's definition of what "war" means. The problem is that the game of utopia defines the word "war" in a completely different manner. A common real world example of this would be the laymen's definition of "theory" and the scientist's definition of "theory". The laymen defines "theory" as an educated guess, a hunch, something that they "think" is true or would happen, but have no proof, and often no way to test the validity of their "theory". A "theory" to a scientist is something that is very well documented with loads of evidence to support it, it is basically proven, holding the same weight as a scientific law, a theory is simply broader in scope than a scientific law, which can often be boiled down to a single equation. Definitions change based on context, words can have more than one meaning.

Diplomacy has nothing to do with war in the sense that it is the complete opposite of warring. Its a strategy developed by the players, not an inherent mechanic of the game, and is often done to avoid the mechanic of warring itself. They are connected concepts, yes, but they are entirely separate. This is an important distinction to make because we can take it a step further, Diplomacy is a strategy often employed to avoid serious conflict altogether, it does not have to be tied to the mechanic of warring. Diplomacy is often used to get out of long hostile situations that benefit neither kingdom, for example.

Your 3 points made above are all valid, but they are events caused by the strategy of the players, and are completely separate from the war stance itself. Connected to it, yes, but completely separate.

So we're not allowed to have a discussion about notices, or war terms, or anything else that isn't defined mechnically by the game? Am I not allowed to use describe something as "aggressive" because Utopia has already defined that as a stance where you gain attacking bonuses in exchange for casualties? You're just drawing lines in the sand where they don't need to be drawn and you're sounding silly.

I've already clearly defined what I consider a war to be and that definition doesn't exclude the war stance that you and korp insist on racing towards with your blinders on. My definition has always fit, before and after Stances were introduced to the game. Your definition does not.

As far as the rest of your "connected but completely separate" I'll just say this. If you're connected, it's logically impossible to be completely separate.

[Wiliest]

Even if they are wrong, it's a legitimate theory about what was happening. Users are allowed to post thread topics that are incorrect. When people start posting things like "Folle has a drinking problem and beats his wife" I'll be glad to take it down for you.



So we're not allowed to have a discussion about notices, or war terms, or anything else that isn't defined mechnically by the game? Am I not allowed to use describe something as "aggressive" because Utopia has already defined that as a stance where you gain attacking bonuses in exchange for casualties? You're just drawing lines in the sand where they don't need to be drawn and you're sounding silly.

I've already clearly defined what I consider a war to be and that definition doesn't exclude the war stance that you and korp insist on racing towards with your blinders on. My definition has always fit, before and after Stances were introduced to the game. Your definition does not.

As far as the rest of your "connected but completely separate" I'll just say this. If you're connected, it's logically impossible to be completely separate.

No you are, in fact that's why I commented in the first place, not to troll, but because you were discussing what is or isnt war as far as utopia is concerned, which interested me enough to take part in the discussion. You're definition is not technically correct by the game standards, so it opens you up to trolling and ridicule from Korp, but I like discussing game mechanics/theory which is what I was doing, Korp just happened to be the one on the right side of the argument in this case.

As far as the connected but completely separate idea, think of human anatomy, we are made up of various different organs, muscles, veins, and liquids, but they all come together to create a cohesive whole. Your heart is connected to your lungs, which are connected to your diaphragm, etc. but they are all completely separate and distinct entities with clear definitions and roles within your body. By having clear distinctions we can better study and eventually come up with ways to strengthen the body, or repair it better when needed. Utopia also has many moving parts that should have clear definitions so they can be better debated. That was my only point.

[Loons]

I havent seen any proof of deleted provinces. Lets start there. Aint the first time you make fake accusations ;)

I'll be the Last province in the chain on your lowest defense province in ~7 ticks. Feel free to raze me then and add to the number of acres I may raze from you.

OMG ... Im a bad troller (i did troll Steel though to the point of him being so upset he had to convince his Sinner buddies to kill me while ghettoing). With that said Folnub (im sure he has me on ignore, thats his MO)... the entire community has seen the proof of the deleted provinces. Your an even worse wanna be troller than i am.

Oh thats right, Folle doesnt know how to troll, he just holds grudges and no one but Folle thinks hes remotely funny/entertaining. But one thing I know is that Folle is super excited to have peeps talking about him atm, so Godly massively failed on creating this thread

[Band of Horses]

OMG ... Im a bad troller (i did troll Steel though to the point of him being so upset he had to convince his Sinner buddies to kill me while ghettoing). With that said Folnub (im sure he has me on ignore, thats his MO)... the entire community has seen the proof of the deleted provinces. Your an even worse wanna be troller than i am.

Oh thats right, Folle doesnt know how to troll, he just holds grudges and no one but Folle thinks hes remotely funny/entertaining. But one thing I know is that Folle is super excited to have peeps talking about him atm, so Godly massively failed on creating this thread

Na Godly wanted to up the CR cred by showing they could beat you while being multied from outside. Silly I know.

[StratOcastle]

Na Godly wanted to up the CR cred by showing they could beat you while being multied from outside. Silly I know.

LoL.

[crixilver]

So we're not allowed to have a discussion about notices, or war terms, or anything else that isn't defined mechnically by the game? Am I not allowed to use describe something as "aggressive" because Utopia has already defined that as a stance where you gain attacking bonuses in exchange for casualties? You're just drawing lines in the sand where they don't need to be drawn and you're sounding silly.

Wiliest is actually quite on point and his points makes sense. Also, he seems to be putting in a lot of effort in explaining his points to you, Palem. The typical troll doesn't do that. What he meant was to work on ideas (named by terms, eg. war, aggressive, etc) on the same definition, to have an intellectual conversation. You definitely can use terms that are already used in the game, but in this context, I think everyone knows that 'war in utopia' meant 'war' in 'utopia'. We are all talking about exchanging acres, war bonuses, lower stealth/mana costs, semi protection from outside hits, how hitting into uto wars are frowned upon (or not), getting honor, pk, learning land def provinces, etc etc etc. We are definitely not talking about escalation due to failure in diplomacy, in real life wars. Friendly kds in uto war each other too, via arranged wars, not those fake/feeding bs.

As far as the rest of your "connected but completely separate" I'll just say this. If you're connected, it's logically impossible to be completely separate.

If you want to be totally anal about this, nothing in the universe is completely separate from each other. They are all atoms in the periodic table. If not (undiscovered atoms, sub atomic particles, dark matter, mental constructs like time, love, the credit system, etc), they are all co-existing in the same universe. If you want to talk about different dimensions, they are all connected via the different instances of universes that they share the same general definition of. I could go on. What Wiliest meant was that they are related through a different phase of the game, but hold different mechanics. War (again, war in uto, no one is getting mixed up here) is an in-game mechanic. Diplomacy (again, diplomacy in uto) is a mental construct. Are they related/connected? Of course. Through the medium that they exist on. Are they separate? I.e. can one exist without the other? Definitely. Well, maybe not the human anatomy analogy, though it is highly debated that certain individuals lack important organs like brains/heart/guts, and are still alive.

And as much as I hate to say this, Korp is right this time, though his tone is still undesirable. Quite surprised that he is actually capable of intellectual/non trolling comments. I don't mind talking to that Korp.

[Wiliest]

Well, maybe not the human anatomy analogy, though it is highly debated that certain individuals lack important organs like brains/heart/guts, and are still alive.

Actually it is quite well documented that humans are able to survive on only 1 lung, or 1 kidney, you can even live with only half of a brain(literally!) if it has been cut in the right manner. Not trying to nitpick, but just some interesting facts you might find cool! Also, I wasn't trying to relate that analogy to utopia, I was just attempting to illustrate the "connected but completely separate" idea to Palem.

[MyNameIsMatija]

This all has so much to do with Folle multiing, thanks for getting the thread back on track Palem!

Seriously though, this is a good discussion, carry on please.

I'm also surprised to see Korp display coherent thought, who would have guessed right? :P

[crixilver]

Actually it is quite well documented that humans are able to survive on only 1 lung, or 1 kidney, you can even live with only half of a brain(literally!) if it has been cut in the right manner. Not trying to nitpick, but just some interesting facts you might find cool! Also, I wasn't trying to relate that analogy to utopia, I was just attempting to illustrate the "connected but completely separate" idea to Palem.

Yup I know. I was commenting on the connected/separation issue. The individuals living without the organs was a poke at some brainless/heartless/gutless people. I think you missed it :p

[Bart of Sparta]

just throw in some definitions, put it to a vote and settle on it. First thing I tell new players coming into my kd is that the terms we might use to refer to some stuff could differ from those in former kds. for instance, some kds call throne off "raw off", we call it "mod off", raw off being troops plus horses without modifiers and max off being throne*generals.

Chinese philosophers already discovered a few centuries BC that language is relative and nothing but a tool of convenience, and that settling on a common understanding is crucial to having an organized society. discussing word semantics is quite pointless unless youre a social scientist or lynguist trying to derive cultural conceptions from certain lynguistic traits a language has.

nubs

[Folle]

Thanks Palem. I'll keep in mind personal attacks are now allowed.

[Korp]

Calling someone a cheater isnt a personal attack though.

[Palem]

Accusing someone of doing something isn't a personal attack.

I won't be discussing the war argument any more because there's just no talking to you people.

[Korp]

Supposedly Folles 15 friends had all danish IPs.. Funny, Folle being dane and all.