Concerns About the Change to Sitting

[StratOcastle]

I'm not shooting this down because I think the decision was pragmatic. Serious players with RL issues are the target here. From the standpoint of a player in the sub-tier, it won't change how we play.

I'm seeing more concern from the competent war tier, and that should be the focus for problem solving. If I were to guess, it's that the majority of the rather serious war tier are tipping on the edge of a casual core with a few serious players in leadership. The reason it's a slippery slope here is because dedicated populace in this arena varies dramatically. Thus, a comparable war kingdom that has a higher number of sitter willing players can operate in micro much more effectively.

By contrast, in my arena, I'm pressed just to find an active to ask if I can sit for them. Totally different dynamic.

Edit: top tier already likes this change for good reason.

[DavidC]

Matija is correct, renaming your province does not 'provide an advantage' yet people pay for that.

Bart - your point is valid in a different context. Sitting provides an advantage in 2 ways: 1) allows a user that opportunity to not log in yet still have their province be growing in time, as opposed to paused in time via Vacation Mode; and 2) the Kingdom benefits from having a province with a user that can log in. The use of sitting provides these advantages. But to argue that sitting provides advantages over Kingdoms that don't use it is not an accurate statement. A Kingdom that does not use sitting can perform the same amount of actions & functions that a Kingdom using sitting could by just being more active. This is the crux of the argument that seems most people are not grasping. The use (or paying) of sitting in no way provides any bonus or advantage that can not be attained by just being more active; whereas a true pay to win item will provide something that can not be attained via any other method than buying it, i.e. see my post above.

I feel BoH's argument holds most validity in that the bonuses/advantages the use of sitting provides are out of game for the user that is activating the item. The benefits the Kingdom and Province receive could have been achieved by the owner just being more active. So I think his statement of 'pay 2 be lazy' is most accurate.

[Korp]

The use (or paying) of sitting in no way provides any bonus or advantage that can not be attained by just being more active; whereas a true pay to win item will provide something that can not be attained via any other method than buying it, i.e. see my post above.

How can you attain playing several provinces with one account without paying? And how is not a bonus not needing to have as many people around as your competition?

[MyNameIsMatija]

"Pay to be lazy" is actually by definition pay to win.

[DavidC]

1. Again it does tho as your paying for someone else to play ,not because your away for vacation ,but just because you got armies coming in at a bad time.Vacation mode or sitting was fine for those times.

Perhaps a better way to look at this to more clearly understand the difference: You are paying for the convenience of not having to "insert one of the following" (log in, wake up, take a long bathroom break at work, find somewhere that has a usable internet connection, interrupt family dinner time, excuse yourself from an event). There is no measurable bonus/advantage to using sitting over just logging in yourself. It is a item for convenience.

2.Atleast thats something

Thank you.

3. You already admit its going to be abused and will be so why implement it now instead of next age with changes so you could eliminate it atleast alittle with filters or blocks to combat the abuse ? why rush this out.

This is in no way an admission that the feature will be abused. There has been abuse of the current mechanics taking place that we intend to do something about. This change to sitting does not affect the abuse that is being talked about.

[DavidC]

"Pay to be lazy" is actually by definition pay to win.

It should be noted, as I haven't seen it said in response to these arguments: it seems as though anyone using this argument seems to think that the use of sitting '2 be lazy' is something that can be done for the entire age...this is just simply foolish to use as an argument. The idea that "I'm going to set sitter every time I go to sleep so my province is super active and awesome yeah go pay 2 win ftw" is asinine. This could be done a max of 21 times. You'll be left to play your own account on your own accord for the next 7-9 weeks by yourself without the opportunity at all to use sitting when actually needed for the rest of the age.

In no way is 'pay to be lazy' equivalent to 'pay to win'. If you actually think so, I would request an example.

[DavidC]

How can you attain playing several provinces with one account without paying? And how is not a bonus not needing to have as many people around as your competition?

Let's separate this for clarity and I'll do my best to help you understand.

How can you attain playing several provinces with one account without paying? - Please clarify what you're actually asking me to explain, and I will.

And how is not a bonus not needing to have as many people around as your competition? - I feel like there is a spelling error or missing word so I'll let you fix this before responding.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Examples: paid experience bonuses in different games which let you play less but get to a certain goal faster. Paid task queuing in similar games that also let you have to log in less. Every paid shortcut that lets you not have to play to attain something (less work = lazy).

[Bart of Sparta]

Let's say, in Sports you have 2 kinds of dope: stuff that enhances ur max, and stuff that reduces recovery time. Paid sitting is comparable to the last :)

[Thunder TA]

Sorry David. i did misread number 3 .

Doesnt change my views on this tho. still thing its a bad idea just as for the reasons MyNameIsMatija stated

[Korp]

Let's separate this for clarity and I'll do my best to help you understand.

How can you attain playing several provinces with one account without paying? - Please clarify what you're actually asking me to explain, and I will.

And how is not a bonus not needing to have as many people around as your competition? - I feel like there is a spelling error or missing word so I'll let you fix this before responding.

You claim that people are able to play multiple provinces without paying. I want you to explain how is that possible? Sitting you get to legally multi but how do you do it without paying?

A kingdom that chose to pay for sitting to cover up their inactive people is no doubt a bonus over the enemy that chose not to pay for sitting. So how is it not a bonus?

[DavidC]

Examples: paid experience bonuses in different games which let you play less but get to a certain goal faster. Paid task queuing in similar games that also let you have to log in less. Every paid shortcut that lets you not have to play to attain something (less work = lazy).

Pay for experience is an in game resource, which is not the same, and fits my example of pay to win i.e. paying for land, gold, food, runes etc, in game resources.

Paying for a bigger task queue is a good example of pay to be lazy, but not pay to win if your comparison is directly relating the convenience of not having to log in when your buildings would finish to put new buildings under construction. In this scenario it would be similar to Sitting by comparison and also does not fit the description of pay to win because the same results could be achieved by just logging in more, this would be pay to be lazy and does not qualify as pay to win.

Your last sentence does not actually provide an example of anything specific so I will ignore that.

[DavidC]

Sorry David. i did misread number 3 .

Doesnt change my views on this tho. still thing its a bad idea just as for the reasons MyNameIsMatija stated

The reasons Matija just stated don't support the argument, see my post above.

[DavidC]

Let's say, in Sports you have 2 kinds of dope: stuff that enhances ur max, and stuff that reduces recovery time. Paid sitting is comparable to the last :)

I don't understand this at all, but from what I do it does not appear to support your argument at all.

[Thunder TA]

The reasons Matija just stated don't support the argument, see my post above.

It more appears that your not seeing the issues almost everyone in this thread is sadly.No need to continue trying to explain it. We see it as pay to play which is what was said the game wouldnt go to .Much like the clone has that no one plays.