Can we talk about IP blocks?

[Mongoose]

*grins at Palem* Well put. But seriously, come on.. I'd estimate that we're mostly a bunch of old(ish) geezers here, who started playing this game in their teens and are now in their 30s.

I'll have you know i was in my 30's when i started playing in age 3!!! Whippersnappers ;)

Had a different board name back then. Not that i ever posted much to begin with.

[chadde]

Never saw this replied to specifically. My coworker had the same issue. We e-mailed utopia support and was informed blocks in regards to aid and attacking same targets will clear if he/she stops using the same IP for a 24 hour period. It's not a permanent block.

No it's not. But the whole point of her joining was that she wanted to play with us an we could teach her how it works. It makes it harder when we can't have two computers in the same house at the same time.

Also, like most people I have the utopia app as well. All it would take is for me to walk by her house for my phone to connect to her router. Boom, my account is blocked from hitting the chain target for another 24 hours. I mean c'mon.

[chadde]

It's not a blanket block.

A lot of people try to cheat using proxies, but they are easy to detect.

It is a blanket block as it targets all users from that IP instead of just an offending account. If that IP belongs to a university or large workplace the damage is even greater.

I would also like a response to my earlier post:

With the IPv4 pools getting depleted ISPs have started putting more and more clients behind large NAT pools and only if you ask for it will they give you a private IP. My point here is that IP block is no longer a realistic, reliable way to ban users. It hasn't been for some years now.

[Bishop]

It is a blanket block as it targets all users from that IP instead of just an offending account. If that IP belongs to a university or large workplace the damage is even greater.

I would also like a response to my earlier post:

With the IPv4 pools getting depleted ISPs have started putting more and more clients behind large NAT pools and only if you ask for it will they give you a private IP. My point here is that IP block is no longer a realistic, reliable way to ban users. It hasn't been for some years now.

It targets only provs with that IP interaction, so it's not a blanket block.

ISPs have been using ipv6 addresses for some time now.

[chadde]

It targets only provs with that IP interaction, so it's not a blanket block.

ISPs have been using ipv6 addresses for some time now.

It doesn't target one account, it targets anyone who happens to be in the virtual vicinity. Blanket.

Are you saving ISPs exclusively use ipv6 and never put unsuspecting customers in IP pools? Then you are wrong.

[Bishop]

It doesn't target one account, it targets anyone who happens to be in the virtual vicinity. Blanket.

Are you saving ISPs exclusively use ipv6 and never put unsuspecting customers in IP pools? Then you are wrong.

i didn't say anything of the sort.

Anyway, whats your solution?

[octobrev]

Could just allow people to multi and police the specific negative behaviors! If 3 people want to log their entire KD, more power to them. It doesn't make them good.

[chadde]

i didn't say anything of the sort.

Anyway, whats your solution?

I have previously talked about other ways of policing cheaters. The current mindset is wrong, instead of preventing me from playing in the same kd with a friend from work, why not let us play and instead block accounts who actually break the rules. I haven't broken the rules, neither have my coworker. Why are we being punished?

What needs to happen instead is intelligently watching user behaviour and punish people who actually cheat. Check login patterns, aid patterns and IP patterns and make an intelligent decision about whether or not the account is cheating. Chances are if two accounts share the same IP for 8-9 hours every monday to friday and log on from different ones on weekends and weeknights - they are not multis, they just happen to work together.

If the reverse is true and two accounts share an IP every monday to friday after 6PM and on weekends, but are on different IPs during work hours, then guess what? They live together in some form but are clearly not the same person.

Add to this login patterns, start tracking what a normal user does and you'll learn to identify anomalies.

And before you say "a malicious user could learn these patterns and create a massive botnet that has one million accounts and plays them all within the rules", let me say that
1. of course these rules wouldn't be made official
2. that guy is way too dedicated and doesn't exist
3. most of us aren't here to cheat. In fact I'd say almost none of us are.
4. please trust your players just a little bit, won't you?

[Thunder TA]

3. most of us aren't here to cheat. In fact I'd say almost none of us are.

4. please trust your players just a little bit, won't you?

sorry but that made me laugh more than anything ive read today,thanks.

[Korp]

You are so naive Chadde.

[Goodwitch]

Y'all are right, there are at least 30 people that would go out of their way to cheat to win at an online game at all cost.
Then there are (staying on the safe side) 2000 players that just want to play the game, with possibly more to come.

so they can either punish the players that just want to play the game, which is what is currently happening.
or they can just punish the 30 that cheat.(yes i know there are a few more sadly)

everyone knows who they are, shouldnt be too hard really. Half of them openly admit and even brag about it.

[Korp]

And I love when Goodwitch starts pulling numbers of out of her arse and presents them as facts. :)


Id love to see that list of yours

[Panthira]

The credit card verification charges a dollar, but also checks DBs of names, among other things.

[Bishop]

Y'all are right, there are at least 30 people that would go out of their way to cheat to win at an online game at all cost.
Then there are (staying on the safe side) 2000 players that just want to play the game, with possibly more to come.

so they can either punish the players that just want to play the game, which is what is currently happening.
or they can just punish the 30 that cheat.(yes i know there are a few more sadly)

everyone knows who they are, shouldnt be too hard really. Half of them openly admit and even brag about it.

If I remember right less than 4% of players were affected when we brought in the IP block, and an even smaller amount of their actions were affected.

Also I delete 30 accounts a day easy. You under estimate the cheating :)

[Bishop]

I have previously talked about other ways of policing cheaters. The current mindset is wrong, instead of preventing me from playing in the same kd with a friend from work, why not let us play and instead block accounts who actually break the rules. I haven't broken the rules, neither have my coworker. Why are we being punished?

What needs to happen instead is intelligently watching user behaviour and punish people who actually cheat. Check login patterns, aid patterns and IP patterns and make an intelligent decision about whether or not the account is cheating. Chances are if two accounts share the same IP for 8-9 hours every monday to friday and log on from different ones on weekends and weeknights - they are not multis, they just happen to work together.

If the reverse is true and two accounts share an IP every monday to friday after 6PM and on weekends, but are on different IPs during work hours, then guess what? They live together in some form but are clearly not the same person.

Add to this login patterns, start tracking what a normal user does and you'll learn to identify anomalies.

And before you say "a malicious user could learn these patterns and create a massive botnet that has one million accounts and plays them all within the rules", let me say that
1. of course these rules wouldn't be made official
2. that guy is way too dedicated and doesn't exist
3. most of us aren't here to cheat. In fact I'd say almost none of us are.
4. please trust your players just a little bit, won't you?

We use heuristics to detect cheating already but what you are describing is basically a neural network to detect cheating. That's huge overkill and would probably affect genuine players not even on the same network. An IP block is low effort and have proved hugely successful.