Utopia Wiki Questions, Corrections & Updates

[umajon911]

And what will fill in the WPA?

Infiltrate tells you how many thieves a Province has, anything else you have to infer yourself using other intel.

Im not trying to be a dick about it if it seems im coming off that way there is no intention. So when I infil, in munk itll give me TPA and WPA. I won't get true accurate MWPA and MTPA until SOS and SUR's are done. So if you are saying infil doesnt give you WPA, then how do you calculate or how does munk calculate it?

[Chris121]

I'm not really sure what you are saying. Where does it fill in the wpa? In munk? The page in the wiki you linked is not about munk.[edit: sorry wrote at the same time as you posts above]

However if there isn't already an explanation about how to obtain wpa elsewhere in the wiki it would be useful to add that. But it should be more than just "take infiltrate".

Edit: " I won't get true accurate MWPA and MTPA until SOS and SUR's are done"
As RattleHead said, you won't even get accurate RAW wpa until sos is done.

[RattleHead]

Ya, you can't assume people are using these tools in the game when you are explaining how the game works.

Utopia Wiki should cover the fact that you need pretty much every piece of intel to get a true account of their population... If MUNK wants to create a tutorial on how to use his bot to gather and process intel, he should do that.

Or just integrate the tools completely and then we can work with Umajon911's suggestion.

[Crystopher]

Refer to thread http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ailable!/page3

It's been mentioned what are the 4 possible texts that show up when Abolish Ritual is cast but this is not mentioned in the wiki so far. Can it be updated please? This would be very handy for educating people on what messages they need to watch out for while doing Abolish Ritual spell.

I'll work on this next week when I'm on vacation. Thanks for the reference link!

Ya, you can't assume people are using these tools in the game when you are explaining how the game works.

Utopia Wiki should cover the fact that you need pretty much every piece of intel to get a true account of their population... If MUNK wants to create a tutorial on how to use his bot to gather and process intel, he should do that.

Or just integrate the tools completely and then we can work with Umajon911's suggestion.

Exactly this. The UtoWiki is ONLY for things that Utopia does on its own without the use of 3rd-party tools. When you perform the Infiltrate op, it only tells you how many thieves a province has. If you have an outside intel tool, i.e. Munk/Upoopu, THEN you'll probably see WPA. Utopia doesn't do it on it's own, so it won't be added to the wiki.

As an aside, I'm back to monitoring this thread on a regular basis and I'll be doing another once-over of the Wiki on my aforementioned vacation next week. Keep the posts coming y'all :)

[RattleHead]

Yay! Welcome back

[umajon911]

My apologies!! And thank you for setting me straight :)

[Palem]

So if you are saying infil doesnt give you WPA, then how do you calculate or how does munk calculate it?

Since no one answered, with SoT, infiltrate, SoS, and Survey, you have a fairly decent idea of how much population the province has and you know where that propulation is allocated to, with the exception of wizards. So the missing population would be wizards so munk (and other Intel sites) will populate wizards with the missing piece, at least to the best of Its abilities.

[umajon911]

So all in all its the hardest piece of intel to get...

[BoBDuDe]

1. Value corrections.

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...Magic_Formulas

"Spell Bonus" Value (%) (Which should read "Spell Modifier") Should be the same Value as in description.
I.E.:
+Spells : Patriotism - Spell Bonus 130% - Should be 30% - "Increases" draft speed by 30%
Correction : L&P - Spell Bonus +.85% - Should be 39% ( Effect: Increases base birth rate from 2.05% to 2.85%.) (2.85/2.05)
Correction : Town Watch Spell Bonus 12.5% - Should Be 25% - Peasants defend equal to 1/4 of a soldier
+/- Spells : Mage's Fury - Spell Bonus 120%/80% - Should be 20%/20% - Magic effectiveness 20% higher for offense, 20% lower for defense
-Spells : Quick Feet - Spell Bonus 90% - Should be 10% - "Decreases" your next return time by 10%

Maybe for +Spell effects have green text and -Spell efeects have red text for indication of +/- %

This way you can sort by % and see which spells have the highest % of effects.


http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...every_Formulas

I was thinking that the same table(s) could be made for thievery ops being sortable by Max % of total.
It is already the same table except horizontal instead of vertical.


For both I was thinking another sortable value of relations you have access to each op/spell.
Color coded as well.

Blue (Value 1) - Normal
Green (Value 2) - Unfriendly
Yellow (Value 3) - Hostile
Red (Value 4) - War

[RattleHead]

L&P is correct, it is added to the base, and all other BR mods are multiplied.

The way the numbers are listed already allows you to sort by the effects... your idea would just change the base from 100% to 0%- either way sorting by %effect would still be a poor method of organizing the list of spells since none of them really 'effect' the same thing. For example I don't see how it would be helpful to compare ToG to Animate Dead, or QF to Invis?

(ToG actually needs to be updated as of Age 68 it was nerfed by 1/3... 25-55% excluding fails is more accurate, I call it 30% avg)

Red or Green might be a nice idea, but I think showing the resultant effect in the Spell Bonus column is good, along with the specific effects in the description. This way you get to see both figures.

I think relations list for Spells/Ops would be nice too, could just make them into new columns along with the Races. Room could be made by making some of the spell descriptions more brief (this is the FORMULAS section and there is a specific Mystics wiki page with full descriptions already, right?)

[Chris121]

I don't think it matters if we use a 0% base or 100% base, but since we have 100% base already, why not keep that? For example, BoBDuDe, if we make the changes you suggested to, say patriotism, we need to also change minor protection to 5% (instead of 105%).

Re TW - I think it should be blank (like aggression is). It isn't a 12.5% or even a 25% bonus to anything. Peasants simply go from providing 0 def to providing def as per the description.

[BoBDuDe]

I can agree with TW as its base (peasants) are a zero value. So keeping the effect blank would be applicable. The blank effects are generally not comparable.
But any of the spells/ops that thier effects are a % can and should be comparable.
Generally nothing else in utopia is in a base 100%. Look at the race/personality pages, the buildings pages, sci... All are on a base 0% values.

I do not see how L&P is correct as its effect would be less than a 1% incease to birthrate at .85%. Maybe the wording is just funny...

[RattleHead]

Because if you have homes your BR is increased by those... LP doesnt give you +38% BR multiplied onto your homes bonus. It adds 0.85% to the base ~2% BR (Your population grows by about 2% of your peasant count each tick that you are under-populated), which is then multiplied by the homes bonus.

When you cast Patriotism for 30% boost to draft, you now have 130% of your 'set' Draft rate, its good to show both values rather than just one- so as to avoid confusion, IMO.

[BoBDuDe]

Ah... So with L&P it is
Increase = Peasants X (.0205 + .008[L&P]) X Homes bonus ?
If so it still comes out to about a 39% increase...

Only other way of looking at it would be
Increase = (Peasants X 1.0085[L&P]) X .0205 X Homes Bonus
In which case It would make so little difference as such as it shouldnt even be a spell...

I dont know... I just cant see it. Can one of you please show me (in equation form) what I am missing...

Yes I know we are nit picking over one item out of the overall suggestion... But this is really nagging at me now...

[RattleHead]

http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...#Hourly_Change

Peasants Hourly Change = (Current Peasants * ((Birth Rate + Love & Peace) * Homes Bonus * Chastity - Storms)) - Drafted Soldiers - Wizards Trained

I see your point on how the effect is the same either way. The only thing I can think of which would confirm that the above equation must be true, vs one where LP is ~41.5% (2.9/2.05=1.415) and everything is multiplied, is during BoA...

During the first week(? or so?) of the Age, BR is increased to more like 3.05% ... I did not have this query when last I reviewed that figure, but you should be able to figure out at that point if casting LP gives you 3.9% BR (+0.85%), or ~4.3% (*1.415).

The reason for it being additive could be a legacy from an old mechanic which I can't recall... Vestigial code!?