Just dont play in the same kd, easily solved. Besides you can make arrangements around that.Quote:
couples/roommates will have to pay for sitting to have their province 100% effective during war
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Just dont play in the same kd, easily solved. Besides you can make arrangements around that.Quote:
couples/roommates will have to pay for sitting to have their province 100% effective during war
So you are calling me a liar? My wife happens to be as big a gamer as me. Not only here but in Xbox/PC and mods the pc verisons. She plays Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and would probaly build a character that would kick your arse. So STFU if you don't know who or what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Ways to solve the problem:
Have all singaporeans and whitelisters convert to T/M, since T/M ops wont trigger access denied
or
Take down the system until a more workable solution is posted
Obviously you are a lonely little troll that lives in mom's basement and don't have a girlfriend/wife. "Just play in another KD" Geez, why play at all? Which I'm sure is fine with you since we are cheaters anyway. *calls the waaaaaaahbulance for Korp and Godly*Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
See, now you go around namecalling again instead of arguing, cant you have a civil conversation. The way you acting and the maturity level you are showing makes me really doubt that you have a wife or even a girlfriend to begin with. Why play? Cause you like utopia is a good reason imo, playing just cause you supposdely spouse is playing seems like a very stupid reason to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azartyn
According to sean and brian I am a cheater who hasn't been caught yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Or are you telling me that 100% of those who cheat get deleted in a timely fashion? Because the way you say it, as soon as I start cheating, I'd be deleted. Obviously since there's 7k provinces still in the game, this is not the case. It's to prevent cheaters (of a very tiny scale?) from cheating by assuming everyone is a cheater. Hence, everyone is a cheater in the eyes of the devs.
lol@korp
Bans are being handed out for personal attacks and flaming, keep it civil please.
Actually the devs think the best of everyone. In no way are they saying everyone is a cheater, cop yourself on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuriho
It does interfere with ALL ops. An earlier post in this forum confirmed that and I confirmed it when I tried to do a retal on a guy that my daughter had put PF's on earlier in the day since he was our chain target. I was going to ambush his double tap on me but got Access Denied.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
all interactions should be blocked, thanks for letting us know.
That conflicts with my kd where I had one of the pairs MS PF etc etc on a prov before the other attacked with perfectly fine successQuote:
Originally Posted by Joker1975
Also a million intel ops have crossed paths, no problem here ( i know a million is exaggerating)
They could just have different IPs you know, but we will check it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalFantasyWorld
I thought having more then one account or having someone I know log in and play my account was against the rules? I did not know targetting the same target as people I know was cheating. I've grown to know everyone in my kingdom, albeit, I have never met any of them in person, I talk with them over MSN, IRC and other networks, and, even, play other online games with some of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
While I can understand why these measures have been put in place, how does two provinces who are interactive with each other constitute cheating? Is interacting via phone with other players cheating? is using IRC with other players cheating? I thought the only flaw in the old White list system was that two players sharing the same IP could log into each others account, and, no one would know if they were actually logging into each others account -- because the system was taking their actions at their word -- that is, they were trusting that they would not perform those actions deemed against the rules. ------> Now since when did effecting the same target or being able to send aid to each other actually mean they were cheating? LOL now that I think about this -- you have in no way stopped cheating. I do not share any IPs with anyone, but, if I did: you would not have stopped me: I could still send aid to other people, by way, of others in my Kingdom; okay now, (maybe) you stopped me from targeting the same target, but, all you did stop: was me from performing a legal operation, am I wrong?
You seem to be missing a key element - only same IP interactions are blocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by khronosschoty
The flaw with whitelisting was that there was no way to tell whether the whitelister was just another low profile multi running two provs. You'd still need to check up on them.
There's no problem in letting someone else send aid to, take intel for or make the hit for the IP sharers. A unique IP can do the same.
The sitters issue seems real but tbh that is abuse of the system. Comparable with VM abuse. Imo.
Here is $10 for some credits - let me sit 'my friends' account - thank you, I can now run 2 provinces unhindered. How is that NOT a huge advantage? How is that NOT cheating? Oh don't bother answering I will do it for you --- I paid to do it, that makes it legal in the eyes of the developers an the mods.
I am currently trying to do as suggested an work around having a married couple in my kingdom. We are in the middle of Hostile an heading to war. So my active T/M, seeing the other kingdom waved us an started a dragon, took the initiative an stole a little gold to fund our own dragon, hit a couple elves for runes an gathered the intel on all the enemy. Guess what - my largest attacker can't attack for what ... 3 days? Yea, sounds like this system totally makes it even.
Oh, guess what .... the guy in the other kingdom that is sitting his buddies province an working them both simultaneously, he don't have those issues. And you are going to sit here an tell me this is a GOOD solution to the problem of cheating? Why don't you quit trying to justify the bad decisions of the developers and, instead, help them FIX the problem. A good start would be for you to stop bashing, banning an ignoring all the people that do actually play the game an listen to their concerns. Its been stated many times - As a community we agree that 'whitelisting' or allowing husbands/wives/roomie to play from the same house can be abused, an sometimes it is. As a community we know that there are WORSE cases of cheating going on right under your nose but because these players PAY TO WIN its ok by you. Also there are many paying customers that you flat out screwed over by changing the system in the middle of the age. You want to sit here an keep saying 'its a free game', 'roomies dont play together', etc ..If I PAID for the credits to have my room mate join my kingdom, then went through all the 'legal' crap that was required to make sure they met your 'then current' guidelines for playing from the same IP and now you decide it make it so they can't play with me (see above example of one province not being able to participate in the war) then what you have is a classic example of bait an switch. You see how that works? I paid for a puppy, took it home an soon as it grew up you came in a switched it out for a cat. The owners of the game are wrong, an if they are based in the USA then they are technically breaking the law. Regardless of were they are based they just stole a bunch of peoples money by denying them the product/service they paid for.
Hey - but we can ignore the 'few cases of roomies' that are upset right? Not that many of those out there .... Have you thought about the ENTIRE country of Singapore that this current security measure affects? Not good enough to alienate a few married couples with enough money to get into the same kingdom. You had to take it a step further an alienate an entire country (actually think a few more countries have the same issue too). Then if that wasn't enough of an insult you continue to allow cheating on a much more massive scale by letting cheaters pay to make it legal.
If legit use of sitting cannot be checked it should probably have the same restrictions as the IP sharers.
So whats the difference? Because they pay for it makes it ok? If you are going to screw the people that are honest then let someone pay for the same thing. Its pay to win/play. Yeah, that's real fair huh? Why can't they have a legit way of verifying a white list too?
I really respect you Bishop, so please do not take offense; but, What is the difference between me and my friends talking to each other (any hour of the day) via phone, IRC, and forums, any different then people sharing the same house? Okay I see, how those sharing the same IP, example: those living together, gives cause for greater potential abuse, and, I see how it makes it far easier for some one(s) to hide cheating; and, I see, how your new system, limits the damage done via cheating; however, it does not actually stop people from having multiple accounts, and, it does not stop people from sharing accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
So to rephrase the above: this system only stops legit use of the system, albeit, it hurts abuse of legit activity it does not actually stop those activities it sets out to stop. Actually the way I see it is: this only attempts to stop the bad effects of cheating -- not the actual cheating; maybe, it is hoped by restricting certain activities (those activities cheaters aim for), the cheaters will simple stop, however, I do not see that this will actual stop hardcore cheaters at all.
Again let me rephrase this: the activities being restricted are, in them selves, legal: team attacks, team ops, aiding, talking, sharing... there is only actually two things that are not legal, that I have mentioned in my post: having more then one account, and, sharing accounts with others. This new system will not stop those, afore mentioned, activities, deemed not legal.
what do you suggest as a legit way of verifying a white list?
Bishop, it's not exactly : "You seem to be missing a key element - only same IP interactions are blocked."
The correct sentence is "You seem to be missing a key element - only same FREE IP interactions are blocked." "Pay 10 dollars to unblock."
I don't know...scan a bill/piece of mail into computer and email it in showing two names at same address or do what they do to verify the babysitting. Oh wait...they don't verify that do they? Go figure...next point?
@ Bishop
Palem and I have discussed a time limit a page or so back. Have you guys looked into that? If it is a possibility, what kind of time frame would we be looking into that before it could be implemented? It is a very fair and honest solution to this crisis for most. I'm not freaking out like the rest, I have asked politely for a good solution to keep myself and Nancy from being split up.
Thank you.
That would make life a little easier to Nancy and I to play in the same kingdom but still deal with the restrictions.
go start a ****ing suggestion thread about why Sitting should be changed/removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElusiveWitch
using sitting as an arguement that the whitelist should be allowed is retarded. you seem to be obsessed with it, and while its related, its not whats being discussed. Making sarcastic comments about how babysitting feature is broken isnt accomplishing anything for you. If you havent figured that out by now hopefully you will hear me out on it. If you want something changed, go make a well thought out post in the suggestions forum, complete with your "suggestion"!!!
quit *****ing tho its just annoying
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
Oh my, a little touchy are we? Its only **tch*** because YOU dont agree with it. Its a very valid comparison. Pay $10 you can run a multi, use a free address you can't do this, you can't do that. Truth hurts huh or maybe its you have someone in your kd that pays to play?
Talk about a double standard....Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
There is no way to verify that whitelisted accounts are being played by two different people that I know of. But what I am arguing about is this system penalizes the honest player and not the cheater. I wouldn't even know where to begin to get around this IP cheat catcher but I would be willing to bet that a guy who is cheating has already figured it out.
All I wanted when I started playing this game again was to be able to have some fun in the SAME kingdom with my daughter. Pretty simple isn't it? Whitelisting provided my daughter and me the opportunity to do just that. Before whitelisting we didn't play since we couldn't be in the same kingdom. I taught her how to play the game and basically got her hooked on it.
So to summarize, this new system will in reality only effect the honest player.
How do you stop someone from cheating? That question has been going on since the game started. This isn't the answer. How do you prove that you are an honest player with 2 people actually playing the accounts? I haven't got a clue and I'm sure you don't either.
Joker, you are fighting a losing battle. It doesn't affect him like it does us so it he's all for it. Let something affect his kd and watch how loud he whines.
This seems to be the at the heart of the issue. You might be able prove that there are actually two people living under the same roof and sharing an IP address but you can't prove who's accessing the accounts. Well ok, you could use camera observation but who has time to watch all of that? The solution chosen by the devs is terrible however and if it isn't disabled or at least changed, I fear that Utopia will lose some honest dedicated players over this. Many of those have invited the other to play and while they play in the same kingdom they often encourage each other to keep playing. Unless there is a big ad campaign going on, players inviting friends will remain the most important source of new players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElusiveWitch
I have no suggestions on how, at this moment. I can think, however, of some basic steps to stop gross abuse: with out getting rid of basic game functions: you can stop scripted attacks. The power in mass multiple accounts lies in scripting. It would be easy to detect a kingdom full of multiple accounts. In short: I cannot think of any solutions for small scale cheating, I can however, think of ways to stop mass cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
Edit: and I think I should re-point out that the new system, and, the old systems, as they have been shown to me -- do not stop small scale cheating. I think that any solution against cheating that black lists basic game functions is bad, and, self destructive.
...
Actions, bishop, speak louder than words. Your words fall on deaf ears when the actions are the exact opposite. Think on it. How can they think the best of everyone and give preventative measures? They ensure we follow their rules, knowing if they didn't we still will? Why do it then, if they think the best of everyone? Actions, not words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
You can't enjoy the game with these restrictions and play together. I have deleted my account and so has my daughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
If they won't allow us to play together in the same KD fairly with the same advantages you have as a "solo" player, it just isn't worth it.
The main reason I even posted was to try and get some people to open their eyes to what this does. It isn't as simple as catching cheaters. The big picture is that you take away from people that like the game and played by the rules.
I could easily play the game again myself but it doesn't have the same appeal without my daughter in the KD. It was a lot of fun for both of us. Her learning to play and me teaching. Now, two won't play again unless someone comes up with a way to really stop cheating which is IMO a pipe dream.
Actually if you had any reading comprehension every thing I said was relevant. I don't have a problem with sitting. I was only using it to show how absurd and useless this new "anti cheating" program is. Sorry you haven't learned to compare/contrast things and have to insult people when you don't agree or maybe its you just don't comprehend.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDodge
I cba to read this thread or whatever people are saying cuz its so long but I do have 1 thing to add....
Why are people crying about cheaters? Is there some problem with scripted multi attacks or something that I'm not aware of? Cheating wasn't even a problem in the 20's when all of the top kingdoms were always at risk of getting 5+ deletions if any oldschool trade went awry. Not a big enough problem to ruin the game anyways, but now? LOL cheating not a problem now. I see this as wasted time and effort by our devs and I'm not surprised, they've never shown too much intelligence when it comes to the changes they are implementing.
Long Story Short: game is already dead and your worried about cheating? lol
soo what about the people that only have one isp option? are we ****ed?
29 page thread and not a single person (unless I'm mistaken; I've read every post, but I might have missed something) has brought up that a province can only be sat for 3 weeks TOTAL in a given age.
"To prevent abuse, province sitting must last for at least 3 days, but for no more than 3 weeks in total in a given age."
I'm divided about other issues discussed in this thread, but I would like to point out to anyone who has said province sitting is a pay-to-win advantage, a legal, but paid version of multi-ing, etc.: you're wrong.
If a province can only be sat for 3 weeks, what are you going to do for the rest of the age? Then a sat province is only useful as a farm. But then remember you can only sit a province in your own kd and it's not really an advantage to waste one of your 25 provs on a small farm that has to be restarted every 3 weeks since it can't be sat for longer than that. And if the devs really wanted to prevent farming of the sat prov, you could easily just put in a block so that provs in the same kd as the sat prov cannot steal from, plunder or TM the sat province; only raze it to kill it (so as to not interfere with killing off inactives).
why waste credits when a person is away for more than 21 its better to abandon prov and invite someone else
Odd.
I don't care if its 3 days or 3 years, if you pay credits you can cheat - plain an simple. By EVERY definition the developers, mods an everyone else has put out there ... if you pay money you can cheat an they do NOTHING about it.
If you tried to abide by the rules an paid to get your brother/sister/cousin/grandma/wife/dog or fish into the kingdom so you could both spend time playing the game in the same kingdom (wasn't that why they originally allowed trading anyways, it was a way to increase activity in the game?) then, as long as you have the same IP, you are now being swindled out of your money. They got your cash, changed the rules drastically enough to make warring a huge freaking hassle. Yes, its a much bigger hassle then all the moderators are leading you on about - I know, I am going through it right now within my kingdom. Everyone that planned ahead to abide by the rules now have very limited options - continue to play in their kingdom together an hobble their kingdom, have one of them transfer out of the kingdom they are in (an waste the money they already spent?) or become what the developers are trying to catch an circumvent the security protocols an cheat.
I will say it again - bad business decision on their part. Sean an Brian - nice way to bilk the honest people out of their money an do absolutely nothing to catch the cheaters (cheaters are still cheating). Pathetic at best.
Province sitting is not a paid form of cheating because it's not cheating because it doesn't give an advantage. Sure, 12 people could control 24 provs in a kd and multi via province sitting, but an age is much longer than 3 weeks. As I said already, what is the kd going to do for the rest of the age? Once the 3 weeks are over, those provs that have been sat can no longer be controlled via province sitting. And if they were made illegally in the first place (via a second IP address, e.g. at work instead of at home), then the cheater wouldn't bother with province sitting in the first place; why would you pay to sit the account when you've found a way to control a 2nd province for free?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryshad
There is NO INHERENT ADVANTAGE TO PROVINCE SITTING AND THEREFORE IT IS NOT A PAID-TO-WIN ADVANTAGE. I'm giving examples and hypothetical situations to make my point, but I don't think you even read my previous post carefully. If someone can clearly explain to me, especially with a hypothetical situation, why province sitting is an advantage, in light of the fact that it cannot be done indefinitely, can only be done for a province in you own kd, and can only be done for one province at a time, then I'll retract my statement
Allowing a "trusted" kdmate to xlog your prov for money even if its for a maximum of 3 weeksQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyth79
Well, this is just sad.
A work mate of mine got me into this game and I have been playing for about 4 ages now.
We both log in from work PCs, and even though we are at different sites on opposite sides of the city where we live, we can no longer play together.
We both chose Elf/Rogue hybrids for the shear amount of ops that they can do, and are now basically useless to the KD we are in.
Is this seriously the best way to stop cheating?
It seems like you are using a shot gun to kill the cheaters, but friendly fire is taking out non-cheating work mates/partners etc.
Poor effort guys.