Lower kd sizes

@Luc

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Competition increases with more kingdoms of equal talent, not size. Your 20 player ghetto is still a ghetto, expect now it will be farmed slightly longer before the skds outgrow it. Then, when people leave it during the course of the age to go to better kds, it will start the next age with 15 players. Then someone will make a post about kd sizes not being reduced enough.

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^^ That is what I have been saying with much more concise wording.

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Originally Posted by Luc

Please stop telling me what reality is like. I live there too. Your opinions of how things are don't match what I've been experiencing. How well you manage to recruit depends on how well connected you are and your kd's background. If you can show that your kd has been successful before, you are more likely to be able to recruit good players. Newly started kd's, or kd's that attempt to get better don't have any advantages there, and rarely have the contacts to pick up players leaving other kd's. I.e. them being worse at recruiting doesn't follow from their lack of leadership abilities.

As for players leaving, my experience is that the most common reason for leaving is real life interference, not bad leadership. Many also leave because they're simply bored of the game. That's players that could easily get a spot in a really good kd if they wanted, but they don't even care to try, because it's the game itself they're tired of. And that's not hard to understand seeing as how the game really is boring. It's all rinse and repeat. Ghettoes are ghettoes, the mid kd's are stuck where they are, and the top grows away because there's no competition.

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Look you're admitting I'm right more or less. Your arguing that you need success to recruit people, wow that's completely different from how the real world works. OFC you need success for people to start bandwagonning on your KD. Who the hell wants to join a losing KD for a long period of time? Also players do leave for RL issues, but most either use that reason as a excuse because they are bored. They are bored because their leadership hasn't offered them anything new. Good Leadership sets clear goals of what their intention is every age, whether it be setting up a race strategy for dicing advantages or whether to play a attacking heavy race staying slightly smaller and warring more. Like I said, you should look to what your doing wrong (or what your lacking - i.e. success record) before you begin to complain.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

No, it serves as a warning to others too. If you want to swear or cause trouble i will assist you in leaving.

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it was'nt used agiesnt any one special it was used to enforce the point in my post.

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Originally Posted by comport9

I will leave with this though, all who are arguing against this change haven't presented any viable alternative. We all know what the status quo is, and that's a slow death with less and less fun for those in the game. Until they can come up with real suggestions, beyond advertising and such that is NOT going to happen, they aren't adding anything to the discussion.
cya.

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I thought this was a suggestion thread therefore its to discuss a suggestion. In this case the suggestion was bad, since when did the onus of coming up with a alternative fall to the naysayers while the supports just continue to harp a bad idea.

The problem isn't with KD sizes that is leading to game death. AND Wolf's advertising idea WAS a good one, that you just refuse to give credit because you doubt it will occur. Well I doubt this change will occur either so does that mean this suggestion is not a "real suggestion"?

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Originally Posted by Aos

it was'nt used agiesnt any one special it was used to enforce the point in my post.

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Originally Posted by Forum Rules

* Posts containing inappropriate language or content.

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Don't swear.

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Originally Posted by Coke

@Luc

^^ That is what I have been saying with much more concise wording.

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And it can also easily be refuted. More kd's of equal talent = more kd's with the same amount of players. There are talented kd's out there who don't get up to the top because they can't get 25 players of the same skill, but would do well if only their core was required to fill up the kd.

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Look you're admitting I'm right more or less. Your arguing that you need success to recruit people, wow that's completely different from how the real world works. OFC you need success for people to start bandwagonning on your KD. Who the hell wants to join a losing KD for a long period of time? Also players do leave for RL issues, but most either use that reason as a excuse because they are bored. They are bored because their leadership hasn't offered them anything new. Good Leadership sets clear goals of what their intention is every age, whether it be setting up a race strategy for dicing advantages or whether to play a attacking heavy race staying slightly smaller and warring more. Like I said, you should look to what your doing wrong (or what your lacking - i.e. success record) before you begin to complain.

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What's the real world got to do with anything? People get paid to work in the real world. You have more tools to work with than you do in utopia.

Don't you see there's a catch 22 there? You can't get good players unless you're successful, and you can't become successful with ****ty players.

Your claim is that if you just have good leadership, players will come flocking, and they will never leave. That's just not true, because you don't have any way of showing how good your leadership is when there's no players to show it to. What are you supposed to do? Put up an ad saying you have really good leadership? Being able to present some goals takes little skill, and generally won't be enough to attract specially many players. If they can choose between a kd with a well known name, and an unknown kd, they choose the well known kd almost all the time. The unknown kd will be able to do some recruiting, but it likely won't be enough to arrive at 25 good players. The good players are often impatient and leave if they get an offer to a kd that is already up in the top. In real life that would respond to another company offering a much better salary. Some people would stay because of a good leader, but most wouldn't, because they would expect a similarly good leader in the other company, and a faster payoff (higher salary).

I also think you're greatly overestimating the value of goals here. That you have clear goals doesn't matter at all when you've already had that goal several times before. The game is limited and stagnant. There isn't a lot you can do differently. People get bored regardless of how good the leader is.

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Originally Posted by Coke

I thought this was a suggestion thread therefore its to discuss a suggestion. In this case the suggestion was bad, since when did the onus of coming up with a alternative fall to the naysayers while the supports just continue to harp a bad idea.

The problem isn't with KD sizes that is leading to game death. AND Wolf's advertising idea WAS a good one, that you just refuse to give credit because you doubt it will occur. Well I doubt this change will occur either so does that mean this suggestion is not a "real suggestion"?

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That the suggestion is bad is your opinion, and he's rejected your arguments and simply thinks you're not bringing anything new to the table. Of course he's wrong about the onus though.

There is a problem with kd sizes, and a change could strengthen the effects of advertisement in a later stage, which is something I've been arguing for a while now. No one said the kd sizes is the only reason the game is dying. What we're saying is that it's a brake block.


Anyway, we're clearly not ever gonna agree on this. The devs now have a thread with people arguing back and forth. No one is really bringing anything new to the table anymore, so they can just look at the thread and decide what they'll do, which will likely be nothing.

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Originally Posted by Aos

So people that don't have the same problem as you WolfDGrey is a lier now? , you start to sound like VT2...

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In general, spreading lies means you're a liar. Saying that your monarch has a hard time to decide who to kick, is a lie, especially in the twisted way you try to put it into the spotlight. Thus, you're a liar.

In general omitting things, showing them in false conjenture qualifies as a lie. Saying that you play in a 25 player kingdom, omitting that your players are not the same at age start as age end, just to prove continuity, qualifies as a lie regarding our discussion here. Thus you're a liar.

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Originally Posted by Luc

Your claim is that if you just have good leadership, players will come flocking, and they will never leave. That's just not true, because you don't have any way of showing how good your leadership is when there's no players to show it to. What are you supposed to do? Put up an ad saying you have really good leadership? Being able to present some goals takes little skill, and generally won't be enough to attract specially many players. If they can choose between a kd with a well known name, and an unknown kd, they choose the well known kd almost all the time. The unknown kd will be able to do some recruiting, but it likely won't be enough to arrive at 25 good players. The good players are often impatient and leave if they get an offer to a kd that is already up in the top. In real life that would respond to another company offering a much better salary. Some people would stay because of a good leader, but most wouldn't, because they would expect a similarly good leader in the other company, and a faster payoff (higher salary).

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No I'm claiming that if you have good leadership your player rotation would be much lower as fewer people would leave, hence building a 25 prov KD is easier. Obviously success and connections don't hurt, but the good leadership keeps their users engaged and eventually you would build up a KD. I never said it was easy to build up a KD, I've done it twice and it's probably one of the jobs that can burn you out the most easiest. But then again I had no other support in my KD and ran everything, which contributed to my burn out. Hence EVEN IF I was providing strong leadership it still wasn't good leadership because I was doing everything by myself, when you should really have a group of people within the KD to help with everything

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Originally Posted by Luc

And it can also easily be refuted. More kd's of equal talent = more kd's with the same amount of players. There are talented kd's out there who don't get up to the top because they can't get 25 players of the same skill, but would do well if only their core was required to fill up the kd.

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If a 20 player KD had such strong people they would be experiencing great success in the mid-tier KD level and shouldn't have a hard time finding people to join them. People join and stay in winners because, well everyone likes winning. Hence reducing KD sizes would have no affect, because the KDs stuck at 20 players either aren't winning wars or land growth or w/e or don't offer good leadership which keeps people around. Although a lot of times good leadership is also closely related to the frequency of wins (I'm assuming mid-tier so winning KD = most war wins).

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Originally Posted by Luc

Don't you see there's a catch 22 there? You can't get good players unless you're successful, and you can't become successful with ****ty players.

(...) The unknown kd will be able to do some recruiting, but it likely won't be enough to arrive at 25 good players. The good players are often impatient and leave if they get an offer to a kd that is already up in the top.

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You keep talking about good players and how they have a problem recruiting "good players". A good kingdom with good leadership doesn't need good players it needs active players since it can always teach them and turn them into good ones.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

In general, spreading lies means you're a liar. Saying that your monarch has a hard time to decide who to kick, is a lie, especially in the twisted way you try to put it into the spotlight. Thus, you're a liar.

In general omitting things, showing them in false conjenture qualifies as a lie. Saying that you play in a 25 player kingdom, omitting that your players are not the same at age start as age end, just to prove continuity, qualifies as a lie regarding our discussion here. Thus you're a liar.

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And you making stuff up is'nt the same as lying? , sence you don't know the situation in my kd - but still can claim that im lying about it?

So insted of saying something that would fix the issue for the kd with 25 players , you call them a lier coz they don't have the same problem as you?
way to go there...

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Originally Posted by Aos

And you making stuff up is'nt the same as lying? , sence you don't know the situation in my kd - but still can claim that im lying about it?.

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Of course you're lieing about it. All who claim that, or try to propagate that, in Utopia today, there are kingdoms which would have same 25 players whole age, are lieing.

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Originally Posted by Aos

So insted of saying something that would fix the issue for the kd with 25 players

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So, I am right and you admit that, there is a problem with the 25 players kingdom.

I said something that should fix ther issue until we get more players. If you're too blind to see it, is not my problem. I explained it enough so except retards and idiots all understood my arguments. That some are too dull, some are too malevolent and some are too chicken to give up the status quo, is, again, not my problem.

I did my duty in trying to open people's eyes.

Now, if you please, excuse my rudeness for turning my back to your cheap blurb, but I have talked enough. What you understood (or not) is not my concern from now on. Have fun with the thread.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Of course you're lieing about it. All who claim that, or try to propagate that, in Utopia today, there are kingdoms which would have same 25 players whole age, are lieing.



So, I am right and you admit that, there is a problem with the 25 players kingdom.

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I don't think it's a bad thing with 20 players kd's , but to force kick people out of the kd they play in is retarded , and retarded to suggest.
even more it's retarded that some people belive that there is'nt kd that don't have problems with there players.

Mercy has had 24 players the same the whole age. One prov got deleted so we kicked the player and replaced him. The end.

I want 30 players in my kingdom, you guys can all have 20 if you want.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Of course you're lieing about it. All who claim that, or try to propagate that, in Utopia today, there are kingdoms which would have same 25 players whole age, are lieing.



So, I am right and you admit that, there is a problem with the 25 players kingdom.

I said something that should fix ther issue until we get more players. If you're too blind to see it, is not my problem. I explained it enough so except retards and idiots all understood my arguments. That some are too dull, some are too malevolent and some are too chicken to give up the status quo, is, again, not my problem.

I did my duty in trying to open people's eyes.

Now, if you please, excuse my rudeness for turning my back to your cheap blurb, but I have talked enough. What you understood (or not) is not my concern from now on. Have fun with the thread.

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You sound like VT2 version 2, except not better. Like Vista wasn't a upgrade from XP.

I'm sure their are KDs that have very little issues finding players, and its not a tiring process. You being unwilling to belive that its possible makes you fairly ignorant. Again there is not a problem with the KD sizes there is a problem with a lack of new players, so go be productive and keep promoting your advertising idea, which was actually good. This idea, not good.

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Originally Posted by Coke

Again there is not a problem with the KD sizes there is a problem with a lack of new players, so go be productive and keep promoting your advertising idea, which was actually good. This idea, not good.

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There is not one single person here who does not agree that the game needs more players. There's just 2 problems with that.

1. We aren't getting advertised.
2. We won't be getting a large amount of fresh blood anytime soon.

You are right. 25 player kds is perfectly fine. Unfortunately, it's only perfectly fine when there are enough players for that to still be interesting. We don't have even close to the number of players that we need for 25 player kds to remain fresh. Because of this, the game has gone stale.

I see more arguments towards kingdom merging than anything else here. If the current kingdoms can't get full they need to be merged.