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Yea, rage qutting and crying out in the forums is totally solving a issue! You're no better than anyone else in here, if you were you wouldnt cry out here and just quit. And lol "Everything went as planned" never heard that one before...Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
And what you said is exactly one of the issues. There are several Kingdoms that all have had issues trying to do diplomacy with FS. But instead of trying to change their idea of diplo they just claim every one else is liars and further destroys any chance of successful diplo. I have no doubt that FS deals in a respectful and fair manner with kingdoms bigger than them. But yet these bigger kingdoms take their diplo experience and hold it as true while dismissing every other allegation of disrespectful diplo in the mild cases to Threats and outright denial to do any diplo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
FS demands to be right simply because they are FS. And their Alliance makes it so.
Well let's so step by step...Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
The reason I'm saying it's fine for CR to use their size advantage to try and triple crown, but that people would gang up on them is because of two basic things:Quote:
You say CR could go for tripple crown via razes (ie. using their size advantage) but you think people would gang up against them. If you think it's fine for big KDs to use their size and are pro-FS side then why do you think CR would get grouped up on for doing what you agree with and are supporting other KDs doing? Or are you saying that it's not fine when FS are being razed, but they'd of course go running to BB if CR were doing it in reverse to have their asses saved (like they did vs. ED).
1. Other people/leaders are not me. They have their own idea of what's ok and what's not ok and it's generally easy to predict what those lines are.
2. People act in their own best interest. The honor kingdoms will obviously band together and when it's happening with a decent reason behind it, it's only a matter of time until some of the growth kingdoms jump on board because they see an opportunity to crown. They'll never explain that that's the reason they're helping, but that is most assuredly the reason they're helping.
Stealing from top kingdoms isn't always stupid. What is stupid is stealing from a top kingdom that's tagged up as "Rob us Get Razed" (or whatever). Also, the best way to hurt top kingdoms most definitely not stealing from them. They plan ahead for that type of stuff. All stealing from them does is cause a minor inconvenience and mess with some of their TBs because they need some more aid.Quote:
Stealing from top KDs isn't stupid, it's the best way to hurt them. What's stupid is 15 week long ages where huge portions of the most active player base are bored out of their minds and have nothing better to do than piss off a lot of players.
The kingdoms that got razed while doing absolutely no lasing damage back go stomped. That's as much of a defined "stomping" as they get.Quote:
Who exactly got stomped in the first example? All that was proven is how much of a waste of time it is for a KD to try and raze out another smaller one, which is different to multiple KDs razing one.
The summary I provided was intended to be a counter to the incredibly ridiculous biased summary that you provided. With all innocent presumptions going to one side, and mud slinging targeted at the other side.Quote:
Give it to friends? Do you have any proof or are you just chatting **** as per usual? I was told about the alliance for next age to deal with excessive bottom feeding, in no way did anything mention GBing anyone this age, being anti-any specific KD, etc. The reality is that FS is hated by many KDs, whether you think it's justified or not is irrelevant, when you reach the point that you piss off enough people who are willing to try and **** your age over then you should realise no-one needs to organise a GB they're just going to happen towards the end of every age when KDs have nothing left to play for. That's exactly what happened here, however punishing the KDs razing FS does nothing and they lose crown, so it's much easier to just accuse SS of asking for help and GB them.
I don't think either side is totally "clean" (as that's never the case). If FS wants to use their size as leverage, cool. If SS, LS, and whoever want to team up on FS, cool. But don't spin some garbage about the integrity of the game and bullying and unfairness. Say it's because they've been dicks and you want to punish them, but most importantly, don't break any deals in the process because that's when the top kingdoms get involved because breaking deals gets taken seriously around this game, especially if you're smaller and breaking deals with someone's allies.
But that's just me
*shrugs*
It 100% solved the issue. There's absolutely no sense in which I'm still frustrated with utopia. Also, things did go as I planned. Sometimes my plans were stupid and backfired (Polar Bears). The only leader I had any particular trouble doing diplo with was jdorje, which was surprising considering what a stubborn hot-head I can be lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Korp
I was in a kingdom with maybe 5 active players earlier this age. We had no problem getting CF'ed with FS. In all the other ages I've dealt with FS (I was generally smaller and in a worse kingdom) they were always polite and generally reasonable. The only instance that I can even remember FS doing something I found to be "wrong" was last age when they helped GB Emeriti down and even that I don't particularly hold against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Palem, in what kingdom do you play? If I may ask :). Just curious, seeing so much strong personality in you ... and as far as I remember you are a girl. That's even more odd.
Palem is indeed female, her actual name is Pam
I have received logs of in game mails.
In these mails Francis(steward) admits to breaking a deal their monarch(Loiso I think) made. He admits to hitting into an active hostile. And then he offers to hit the opposing kingdom in said hostile as reparation for the deal break.
They also show threats like others have claimed they received by FS leadership.
If anyone is interested in seeing the logs I will gladly show them. But I see no need to spam the forum with them.
I don't play anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by vlahul82
All this talk about fairplay (u razed me to death with outside help to **** us over) and meanwhile hand us the crown (which you did not realize). Can't even WD anymore, we will only benefit more.
This was an interesting conflict, all this ****talk is not needed. You gambled, you lost, and we got what we wanted. Thanks, and see you next age!
Yep, if you saw them its clear as the light of day. I would assume however that most are well set in their ways, and that most of the top act exactly like many (frustrated?) utopians have claimed they act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
I would be interested to see you guys either post or STFU if that's possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
Most of us are more than willing to admit that FS has had some issues this age with treatment of others. Have they made mistakes? Sure. We can tell you about some of them and I'm sure everyone and their dog is going to jump on the band wagon and start airing out the dirty laundry. Conflict and issues are going to happen in this game, as will miscommunication and misunderstanding between kingdoms. When mistakes happen, and they will (no one is perfect), the best you can do usually is offer reparations and learn from it. It's when someone doesn't offer reparations or just continues with the deal break, like the sparta v divinity situation, that's when people need to step in. A lot of the time you don't even hear about these things because they are handled diplomatically and resolved between the kingdoms. When this conflict began, all we heard from the people razing into FS war was that they are bullying people and we heard of a few instances from mirana, SS, etc. None of which were even close to on the scale needed for a gangbang. It wasn't about deal breaking the people involved, not about hitting into war, or even violating people's basic rights to fight 1 on 1. Some of these people might argue that their basic rights were violated, and that's part of where the friction is.
I, for one, am not set in my ways. I take everything on a case by case basis. I can only work with what I am given by both sides. People like zauper and i have worked countless hours sorting through the claims by both sides and trying to figure out what is accurate and what is overblown. Papers, diplomatic logs, etc are the only kinds of things that can help us to get a clear picture of what's going on and make a judgement on the situation. We think about the precedent that would be set by the actions, such as this gangbang, and whether that is good for the game or not (and that doesn't just involved the top, we have friends who play down below too). We don't get involved in 1 on 1 situations, but as soon as it breaks outside of that and someone asks us to dig into it, is that wrong? The fear in this situation was that if every kd who feels they've been bullied or waved unjustly decided to gangbang, the game would be unplayable. Should kingdoms like FS take responsibility for their actions this age? Absolutely. People should treat them accordingly in the future concerning their 1 on 1 hostiles, diplo, etc. But gangbang was just an inappropriate response for what happened based on the claims of SS and company. SS didn't have a war deal yet confirmed (yes they were in talks but when aren't the war kds in talks?), FS didn't deal break any of the kingdoms hitting them (if there is proof that they did it needs to be presented), and they didn't hit into anyone's war. If roles were reversed and FS + friends were doing this, I'd help Arsis and SS , especially since I recently became friends with Arsis this age.
People act as though this is just the top, elitist, players helping other elitist players and them saying f*** you to everyone else. This is not the case. I have friends on both sides of this conflict and I certainly don't condone many of FS's choices this age. But taking this to rk is what I'm against because it's reserved for the most severe of crimes only. Plus someone would likely get a crown over this (SS would have double crowned had their plan worked and no one helped FS) and that's just not fair. Unfortunately, whichever kd ended up winning this war was likely to crown for both honour and war wins, which is unfair to the rest of the top 10 in those charts. It's a bad situation overall with no good resolution, especially since SS stopped doing diplo to end it before most of both sides' attackers were gone. I've got many friends in the top 10 for both of those charts who are getting screwed over by SS's decision to take this to gangbang. FS probably had the honour crown all wrapped up if they weren't gangbanged, but other kingdoms were still fighting it out for the war win crown. The actions of the initial gangbang crew screwed over those people's chances for it. Once war started someone was going to double crown, unless MP stopped the fight before that, which is an unlikely action that I have rarely seen used, especially when both sides are this upset.
Or in shorthand: "I swear to Godly I'm relevant. Please don't forget about me!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale
Pale I know that some do spend the time to sort through news, correspondence etc. I also do understand that it's a big task.
The thing is I tried to point out that FS behavior is not okay. I was ignored , ridiculed and called a liar. 7 separate kingdoms stepped up and tried to say the same about how they were treated by FS this age. All of them were dismissed and called liars. There are more that are too afraid to speak up and I promised not to give their names or locations because of threats made. This is a problem.
FS tried to threaten and quiet us as well. But someone had to stand up. If we had not hit into that war, nor you or any one else would have cared enough to do anything simply because the kingdoms it happened to "don't matter".
After all this you are STILL defending FS and accusing SS. FS had every opportunity to say"hey sorry we'll try to do better" before this war. They didn't.
We hit into their "hostile" and I explained why again...and again I was threatened by FS ignored by "the police".
You and FS did not give us a choice. If we wanted the kingdoms not competing for the crown to have a voice we only had one way to do that.
The community can not let one kingdom break the rules and then reward them for it.
But just because you are still not holding FS accountable and because TommyB insists here just one of the mails written by Francis. It was hard to pick just one.
> Lord Wormrot the Sorcerer of Meteor to the Face (Francis FS steward) said:
i cant reach our monarch so i cant confirm this but you cant be lying about something i can check with him when he gets on. i admit this is serious ****up on our part.
i apologize for the rising tension as i couldnt have known why you were 'that' angry while unaware of this exchanged pm.
we keep our words above everything else and its clear we didnt due to miscommunication. i am ready to make any compensation, you name the form. if you are willing to fight (kingdom the recipient was in a hostile with), we can throw some hits on them as well to equalize the situation.
He admits to breaking a deal because he didn't know the monarch made it (the steward/monarch game also mentioned by at least 3 separate kingdoms)
It also shows that they in fact hit into an active hostile.
and then he offers to interfere in the hostile some more by hitting the opponent
each one of these would be reason for action on any other kingdom.
It is not SS that messed this age's crown race up , it's FS
It would appear plain from the logs that they should not have hit into that hostile; and offering to hit the other party involved in this hostile, to make things right, seems even worse in this instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Congrats. Calling in alliance to raze into SS attackers ,While u focus on massacre on SS high honor tm. SS drag on, u slowly farm honor. So SS is doing chart shaping with FS? There isnt anything left for SS to fight on. And why they dragging? And they are helping FS to secure the top and get the ww top spot as well. Really nice plan. Don't tell me SS has joined the FS and BB alliance , hmmmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
To say I am disappointed in the top is putting it mildly
For the most part we leave you guys alone until it escalates to a point where it becomes chart shaping, gangbang, etc. Another issue with these policing things is that people are not just posting papers, summaries, and logs in here to strengthen their argument while making the accusations in here most of the time. You just yell "They are a dealbreaker, they're doing x, they're hitting into hostile". So many people cry wolf these days that it's hard to take it all seriously. Make sure you put your arguments together in a single place early on with proper logs, papers etc all in a pastebin and well organized and it's far more likely to be taken seriously. The longer it takes us to sort through all the data and all the freaking forum posts (most of which have jack all to do with the actual topic or arguments), the harder it is for anyone to do anything about your claims. Not once did I call one of those bringing information against FS to be a liar. The only thing I called someone a liar about was some of the SS guys saying they didn't at all organize the gangbang, when I have plenty of evidence plus common sense to the contrary. More than once, all I said was their previous actions were not justified as gangbang worthy, and I gave my reasoning. That is all, and I've been consistent with my stance. More evidence on FS could, of course, change that stance. However, no one has given anything that is even close to necessitating major top 10 honour/war chart shaping and gang-banging.
I also agree with Khronos that hitting the other kd during the hostile, when they had already hit one of the kingdoms, is a bad idea and other reparations should have been figured out. At least they were trying to repair what had been done, which is the first step. Not sure if I like the offer though.
What are you disappointed about specifically? The fact that they don't agree with you? That they took FS's side? Or is it something else? Considering that is directed at me I'd love a very detailed and well put together argument with evidence about it because I'm truly interested in your perspective being on the other side of this..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
They played the monarch/steward gig all age. The only reason Francis even admitted the deal break was because they were caught.
You know as well as me that the average kingdom does not keep records. And to be honest it doesn't matter anyway.
I have had conversations with Francis, Protector and Zauper from the very beginning. BEFORE FS hit SS!
To excuse FS by saying "oh well they tried to fix it" after they were caught is bs.
You say you need to see evidence and yet, you claim to have evidence but when asked for it everyone is told you can't share it.
Again showing justice is weighed on a different scale for different people.
I don't recall voting for you or anyone else to represent me or my kingdom. I am sure neither did 95% of the server. What makes it okay for you to decide whats right and whats wrong for the community? Why should we trust you , if you plainly demonstrate that fairness is not what you have in mind?
You took and are still taking Francis' word and making it law.
It is not SS or the kingdoms hitting FS that are ruining the game. It is leaders like those of FS and people that think they own the law like the mighty alliance
I remember all of you back from when you knew right from wrong and when you were fighting the good fight against the kind of people you turned into now. I am sad.
Very good post IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Why not max out meter! You can do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Feint
I'm aware of the miscommunication and lack of passing stuff between each other between Francis and Loiso. Getting caught deal breaking is not good (obviously). A lot of what is done about a deal break is dictated by what is wanted by the kingdom that is deal broken since it's they who were wronged, the severity of the break, what happened after the break, and the repercussions of the break on the charts. Things are far more severe and likely to be actioned when it's a #1 vs #2 kd on a chart, or even top 10 or top 20 on any of the charts. Not saying these things are correct, but that’s normally how they’ve operated. Deal breaks are not all created equal, just like theft is not the same as murder. Been digging into this recently to gauge the severity of it and how it might have affected this action. However, that certainly is not the reasoning the people in SS and elsewhere initially put as the reason for the gangbang, which leads me to believe that they are pulling at straws and anything they can to make the people defending FS look stupid and strengthen their case. Why not lead with your best information in the first place rather than it come out after we've been fighting forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
You have not asked me for the evidence I have. If you want it, we can discuss in private about it since the post to give it all here would be even more tldr than this post already is going to be and I'm sorry for the tldr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
My idea of justice is the same for every kingdom and every player. Turnaround is fair play. If you are willing to do it to others, it can be done to you. It’s really hard to police the entire game, and we’d honestly rather not because it inhibits our ability to play the game as well. We have to take time out of our day to try to sort through all of this crap as well, which I can tell you is not fun. That’s why the severity thing comes into play, and that’s also why we typically reserve this stuff for kingdoms in the top parts of the charts. There just aren’t enough people to action every little thing. You don’t have to take my judgement of fairness and justice to be law, but I have been playing since age 1 and I’ve seen almost everything at this point. Most versions of fair involve 1 v 1 as a starting point and everyone having the same resources and the same opportunity to make use of those resources as they say fit. You guys claim that a bigger kd hitting a smaller kingdom is not fair. You guys started out at the same point. The bigger kd made their advantages by their choices, the smaller their disadvantages via their choices. I say that it is “fair” for anyone to wave anyone, as long as the kds who wave smallers are willing to accept whatever treatment they dish out as fair to themselves. Mechanics dictate how 1 v 1 fights work, not me or you. Do I want a ton of bigger kds waving much smallers? Of course not. But, the honour charts are a tricky thing where the top 10 can be scattered all across the board. If they’re competing for the same thing and it’s near the end of the age, shouldn’t they be able to fight each other, regardless of other factors? Do you expect any different? I’m not saying a much smaller kd should take that much bigger to war. That’s silly. But it’s not illogical to think that FS was gonna wave SS considering their #1 v #2 status. Whether it is out of line is a different question entirely. Most people that I know want to see top 2 kds fight it out rather than avoid each other or farm past, be that right or wrong. The bigger issue is actually the mechanics that allow FS to wave and honour farm SS. When you’re supposed to be competing for the same goal, do we really want to say it’s out of line for the kd with the stronger position, who has worked equally hard to be where they are, to just not have a chance at their main competition? The argument that most on the FS side have made is that no kingdom should be gang-banged for hitting their main competition. You’re supposed to be competing and it’s a war game. There were no terms on the cf and there was no finalized war deal. I would agree that what FS did was not nice, at all. But in this instance it’s not deal breaking. It’s the natural fighting between top 10 kingdoms for honour within the confines of mechanics. Just like bigger kingdoms on the land charts waving me without talking to me. Yeah I’m pissed about it and yeah they know next time I have the drop on them they getting waved back. Turnaround is fair play. But me organizing a gang-bang over it would be called foul play by anyone with a brain, regardless of the other stuff the kd who hit me has done. My fault for being smaller, not getting diplo set up so they wouldn’t/couldn’t. I accept responsibility for being smaller and in a vulnerable position. Smaller kingdoms with tons of honour, who know they can get waved for lots of honour, have to take responsibility for all the land drops, lack of using pool, and general situation they’re in. If their main competition is above them and can wave them to win the honour crown, we should bail them out and punish the guy who was smart enough to put himself/herself in a position to win? REALLY? Even if that #2 kds main goal is not to win the honour charts, that doesn’t mean they’re not in a position to under the right circumstances and the #1 kd, no matter who it is, has the right to wave them, within reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Some of my information comes from Francis’ logs, others comes from elsewhere. I don’t take anyone’s word as law. I let logs from all over speak for themselves. I never once said SS and company were ruining the game. I’m well documented as saying the devs do a good enough job of that themselves. The community makes the rules, especially the ones who have been playing the longest and have the ability to action stuff when necessary. The top is constantly arguing among itself as to what is good for the way they play the game, as well as the game as a whole. What goes on down below affects the top, and vice versa. We’re all in this together. There is no mighty alliance. There are kingdoms from both side of last year’s alliance action on the same side in this case. There are only a few things that people up top don’t tolerate and I’ve already described many times what those things are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
I’m sorry we’ve disappointed you but honestly, if you don’t cross the gangbang line or the eoacf dealbreak line, you’re not gonna get cracked over the head with a shovel. Gotta have your ducks in a row 100% if you’re gonna go there. You have the right to start a gang-bang, just like we have the right to stop you. I don’t have to like FS or anyone else to decide to step in if/when other kds decide to do the same first. You don't violate other people's rights to have a 1 v 1 fight, and we won't step in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
SO SORRY FOR THE TLDR, JUST COULDN'T HELP MYSELF...
Hitting for honor means hitting in NW range. Hitting in NW range isn't bottomfeeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
When will you understand this? /facepalm
Is it just me or does this entire thread have some of the longest replies ever? I need a beer. However it is a good read over coffee and breakfast.
perfect example of taking things out of context. the quote was in reference to someone making a statement about how low the land gains were because of the nw difference. So yea...that's what happens when you bottomfeed still applies.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Pale sorry stopped reading after you started making excuses for FS' behavior again. As I stated before I didn't vote for you as God. I didn't ask you to police things. Nor did a heavy majority of players. You do not have the right to judge anyone. So please do us all a favor and just say it like it is. The top 5 kingdoms decided that FS will win the crown and they fixed it. You used might for right. There is no "the community" decided...A handful of middle aged men that have nothing better to do than to act like they own the world even if it is just Utopia.
Had ss broken that deal with FS you would have definitely actioned them, or any other kingdom. Either you action all db or none. or you stop pretending you are doing it for the good of the game.
I have asked zauper to see evidence and was told he could not show me. I asked Francis for evidence and he said he will not. Now you say I can ask you and we can talk about it? how is this a fair process. I have been playing long enough to know all you guys, But someone that is new wouldn't even begin to know who to talk to,
How convenient.
Fact: The Community= EVERY PLAYER ON THE SERVER
and here another one of Francis' mails. And you wonder why people are leaving the game? And he apparently things this deal is worth a GB
> Lord Wormrot the Sorcerer of Meteor to the Face (FS) said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
i dont think you grasp the situation very well. we have only shown mercy because you claimed you are disbanding and lost half the kd. if i see you fight someone else instead, i will know it was all bs to dodge us and will treat you as dealbreakers. i assure you that you wont be having a 1v1 fight vs (kingdom that was waving) and perhaps really end up disbanding.
Dont jump to conclusions, we didnt have any deals with them, and id be very happy if we were presented what was the deal about? I can provide all logs about this issue as soon as im on computer in couple hours, but basic summary of the events are;Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale
-we arrange a war
-they back out of it because their kd will disband, dragons are funded and all training/rebuilding done at this point
-we dont like this and keep asking for the war, but do not make any moves against them
-we make other plans and set a wave timer and another target
-they ask loiso if we are planning to hit them, and loiso says we wont that we got other plans
-they decide to go to war with another kd, claiming they got waved
-i go mad because they dont war us due to disbanding but would war someone else, we scrap other wave target and hit them instead, but only enough to give them button (8hits), and ask them to give us their promised war
-they get ed to hit us for like 6-7k acres (this is very early in the age and that was a lot)
-i find out loiso telling them we wont hit them cos we got our plans, and i apologize for it, and try to make whatever reparations possible, despite its not a dealbreak or anything
-we decide we are on even that they evaded our war agreement and get ed to hit us a lot, in return of us hitting them - so we end it immediately on good terms and move on to own ways
Taking a line out of context doesnt do anyone good, and still then i dont understand why a resolved issue would be brought up to justify other ****..
You seem to have the entire pm log already, please share it all so its clearer whats going on, instead of picking things out of their context to make us look bad..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
if you didn't have a deal like you claim, how can you threaten to treat them as dealbreakers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
Francis I asked you days ago and you refused to show evidence. I will repay you with the same courtesy.
Pale and Zauper and Khronosshoty have received it.
Cant you read anything properly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
We had a war agreement, and they backed out of it. There wasnt any other deals.
so your king saying you won't hit them isn't binding then? interesting concept. Makes you a real treat to do diplo withQuote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
....And they (the logs) do not look good for FS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
It isnt binding, and there were plenty examples of 'we got other plans' wording getting twisted because plans always get cancelled.. But thats not something we would prefer to do, so we paid for it and moved on.. Reading those would clearly show that both sides did wrong, and called it even in the end.. It serves you better to show us as the evildoer instead right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
And reading it through it looks like we have it from the lions mouth itself. (Francis and not just the ingame king)Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
(Meteor) "sure you can fight them, but why them and not us? i could have waved you and not back off as well and just decided to keep away out of respect instead."
> The Wealthy King said: > > > > Hello.
I just got waved by x:x.. not really what I wanted to do but doesn't look like they have any interest in backing off..seems like I will have to fight them.
Could I please have your blessing to fight them,,, if you could agree to cancel dragon and to leave us alone that would be most appreciated..
Frankly things had been going better and I was trying to get ready to make good on my province from a while ago.. but x:x waved me right as I was getting into fort..
#1 honor warring the #14 honor isn't neccecarily the best way to 'secure' a spot. It can very likely result in honor losses. Why risk that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Those Spectre players also denied having double hostiled Jerks. Their opinion isn't valid since they rather screw around and are likely posting misleading posts like Feint. And you're blindly jumping the bandwagon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
lol, think you can decide whos opinions are valid or not. Been drinking too much koolaid bro. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Landdropping is better??Quote:
Originally Posted by fawk
Valid might be the wrong word, agreed. Trustworthy? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Those logs also don't look good for the other kingdom in question and I can completely understand why FS thought they were getting screwed. KD breaks a war deal because they are disbanding but decides to fight another guy? Yeah if I'm the kd who got deal broke and other kd gives me bs reasons and then wants to fight someone who waved them who is just as strong as me, you're darn right I'm gonna be raving mad and likely not be very nice about it. I also have those logs and sifted through them. Was FS maybe a little bit harsh? Possibly. But that other kingdom certainly deal broke them and put them in an odd situation in the first place. I'm not letting that kd war someone else if they deal broke me for that reason and no "we have other plans" is not a deal. Plans can change quickly as circumstances change, especially when you have new information.Quote:
Originally Posted by khronosschoty