#1 vs#2 honor kds

I never questioned Bishops decision. I said it was harsh, but I accepted it and moved on. A few kingdoms got together and figured Bishop's punishment was not enough, and decided to exact their own punishment based on their own distortion of facts. Bishop himself explained why the ww's were removed, but instead of being content with his decision, people want to decide their own reason. I am sure if Bishop found evidence that TBB was using multiple provinces to start a war then the punishment would have been the same as when he finds evidence that two kingdoms are involved in a fake war. The monarch and steward would have been deleted and not just one player in the kingdom. Since the Monarch and Steward were not deleted, that should prove to you all that there was no evidence of foul play and the punishment handed down was for TBB having a player in their kingdom that used a proxy. Once again, that was exactly what Bishop said. You want an apology handofthrawn? Ok, I am sorry someone in TBB used a proxy to play the game. If you want an apology for anything but that, you won't get it because TBB is not guilty of anything but that. As far as the insults to FS goes, I have only told the truth. They are cowards. They could have easily had a war with TBB if they just asked and gave them time to prepare. Instead, they took the opportunity to destroy TBB with their friend in CR and Divinity. Personally, I do not want a CF with FS, I want to be GREEN! Then I will change my name to Fart Sniffers or some other name mocking FS.

Now back to a normal conversation. Aranfein, I like talking to you. I know you are not on TBB's side, but at least you have the integrity to look at it from both sides and can help a noob like me understand what the hell is going on.

A: TBB was not in range after the war, but all chained provinces put in mills and were getting funded soldiers and gold to explore and train.
A: TBB declined the CF terms finding them too harsh and chose to go to war instead.

Edit: Just saw Ed clarify that they planned for war after declining CF terms. Looks like TBB brought this upon themselves lol

Elldallan, that is where I am confused. If Ascension can come on here and say they received gold to fight FS and FS had no problem with it then why does FS have a problem with TBB getting gold TO RECOVER FROM WAR? Once again, TBB did not get a bunch of gold and then wave CR. They got a bunch of gold and got waved by CR and then declared on them. It did not become a problem until after they won the war.

Bottom line: One kingdom has decided what is right and wrong and you have all followed along with them. Bunch of fricken lemmings.

"The answer to your questions is: Neither. You posed a loaded question based on suspect word-of-mouth information."

I have put down a logical conclusion based on a FACT : Bishop erased 4 ww from you. Everyone who played this for a long time has no real reason to question Bishop's decisions. You seem to suggest he did that for no reason, or at least you just refuse to tell the reason. So, if A and B are both false, do tell us your C, D, E etc.

LE : finally, Ed grew some balls : "I never questioned Bishops decision. I said it was harsh, but I accepted it and moved on."

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

Elldallan, that is where I am confused. If Ascension can come on here and say they received gold to fight FS and FS had no problem with it then why does FS have a problem with TBB getting gold TO RECOVER FROM WAR? Once again, TBB did not get a bunch of gold and then wave CR. They got a bunch of gold and got waved by CR and then declared on them. It did not become a problem until after they won the war.

Bottom line: One kingdom has decided what is right and wrong and you have all followed along with them. Bunch of fricken lemmings.

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There is nothing wrong to receive gold or trade land for gc. The problem is you did it after you declined CF terms, choosing to war instead. I wrote a whole piece about why you were correct to receive the gc for rebuild due to lack of malicious intent, until I saw that you just admitted it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

Elldallan, that is where I am confused. If Ascension can come on here and say they received gold to fight FS and FS had no problem with it then why does FS have a problem with TBB getting gold TO RECOVER FROM WAR? Once again, TBB did not get a bunch of gold and then wave CR. They got a bunch of gold and got waved by CR and then declared on them. It did not become a problem until after they won the war.

Bottom line: One kingdom has decided what is right and wrong and you have all followed along with them. Bunch of fricken lemmings.

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Your talking about a agreed war where one party agreed to allow the other to have gc too a b2b war. You don't see how silly you sound?

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Originally Posted by baka

Razing in to TBB is not because they cheated - who cares. Everyone cheats just some don't get caught.

Raizing in to TBB is because they still have not closed relations and went and started another one.

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You saying razing into war is fine because they have not closed relations? Wow. That's new. Will be mindful of that next age when we don't have a CF in a place (or even a CF in place because that's not "honorable")

OMG, azsxdcfv I can finally go to sleep now. Someone besides myself can see the hypocrisy in all this.

I will admit that I am a soldier here and do not know the inner workings. I was one of the orcs that got chained down hard in the first war, and had to release all of my d-specs and thieves, but I still had about 14 epa. Once I explored, I was down to about 11epa, but was able to get to 8d-specs per acre and 2.5 tpa before eowcf came. I had banks and armories and the plan was to get back up to 14 epa while in fort. Once CR waved us, I was ordered to raze armories and banks and get into war build. CR stole a lot of my gold by I still had enough to convert. Keep in mind, I was the smallest province after the first war, so if I could be prepped before eowcf everyone else could too. We did not sit on the button for 5 days while someone fed us gold and attacked CR, that was what they did to us.

uhhh i think i lost you azsxdcfv. Language barrier?

We were hoping to recover more after the war, which is why we had armories and banks in. Then CR waved us and demanded to give them more honor and acres for a CF. Instead, our monarch had us raze our banks and armories, and set a declaration date. I never said we received gold after we declined CF terms. Read it again bud. First we got gold, then we got waved, then we declined terms, then we declared.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

uhhh i think i lost you azsxdcfv. Language barrier?

We were hoping to recover more after the war, which is why we had armories and banks in. Then CR waved us and demanded to give them more honor and acres for a CF. Instead, our monarch had us raze our banks and armories, and set a declaration date. I never said we received gold after we declined CF terms. Read it again bud. First we got gold, then we got waved, then we declined terms, then we declared.

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Tell me, if you didn't had all that gold, would you still have declined CF terms and declare war ? :)

I like the point about how CR did intels on TBB, finds out that TBB is getting GC from somewhere, and still decides to b2b without provocation due to their greediness in negotiating a cf deal. I mean if they had won the first b2b they would surely boast about it a lot but they got whooped. All I can say is serve them right. But the razing into war thingy is uncalled for and by no utopia standard, honorable. Am calling those kds who have CF with FS CR and DIV to judge this and provide a view.

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Originally Posted by jacko

"The answer to your questions is: Neither. You posed a loaded question based on suspect word-of-mouth information."

I have put down a logical conclusion based on a FACT : Bishop erased 4 ww from you. Everyone who played this for a long time has no real reason to question Bishop's decisions. You seem to suggest he did that for no reason, or at least you just refuse to tell the reason. So, if A and B are both false, do tell us your C, D, E etc.

LE : finally, Ed grew some balls : "I never questioned Bishops decision. I said it was harsh, but I accepted it and moved on."

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Life isn't binary. But I doubt you are truly capable of understanding that concept.

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Originally Posted by HerpNDerp

Life isn't binary. But I doubt you are truly capable of understanding that concept.

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Still dodging it lol, after so many days ... You can doubt all that you want, we've never met/knew each other and on the other hand I don't claim to be the owner of the supreme truth. I could be wrong, I just doubt that I am. You have come up with 0(zero) alternatives for A or B.

If I may quote Strato/Bishop : "Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it."

LE : You know what "Ad-hominem" is ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Next time when you're going to use it, at least remember its name.

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

I like the point about how CR did intels on TBB, finds out that TBB is getting GC from somewhere, and still decides to b2b without provocation due to their greediness in negotiating a cf deal. I mean if they had won the first b2b they would surely boast about it a lot but they got whooped. All I can say is serve them right. But the razing into war thingy is uncalled for and by no utopia standard, honorable. Am calling those kds who have CF with FS CR and DIV to judge this and provide a view.

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Kingdoms have already past judgment Iast i knew. It was a legit 2 vs 1 conflict because TBB made it that way. Divinty made people reconsider but end of the day TBB are complete a**holes. Who cheat, db and are generally bad for utopia. Also don't forget their puppets for the biggest scum bags in utopia. Apparently your a part of them now Spartans. End of the day no one is going to help TBB. Hope they enjoy being green lol.

Question asked was if we did not get the gold to recover from war, would we have declined the harsh terms for CF and declared war?
A: I would have to say no. We would have had to roll over and take it like all kingdoms do when a larger and stronger kingdom wants their honor and acres.

So let me make sure I understand the rules so I don't make the same mistake in the future, and also maybe help others understand them better. "When you lose a war, do not seek aid to help your chained provinces explore and train just in case the winning kingdom decides they want more of your honor and acres. If they do decide they want more, just give it to them no matter how unreasonable their request is." Is that about right?

You see, the problem is not that we traded land for gold, cause it has already been established that many kingdoms do that without retribution. The problem is CR thought they could bully us and get free honor and acres, and they got punched in the mouth. You guys want to support the bully, and not the kingdom that stood up to them, go right ahead. No matter what happens, this age is a success for me because after years of being bullied by larger kingdoms wanting my honor and acres, I finally got to punch a bully in the mouth. AND IT FELT SOOOO GOOOOOD!!!

To FS LS, knowing full well that TBB v CR conflict hasn't ended and still choosing to wave 7x (not even a full wave...weird though), that's very low. I mean any observer can see miles away that CR intends for a b2b2b. If you can truthfully admit that you are unaware (I'm asking FS LS, not peons), that I won't harp on this any further.

From TBB's perspective, I would do the same, i.e. Wave CR who wants a b2b2b (based on CR actions on stealing horses...I mean why steal horses if u don't wanna b2b2b? We can ask master Feint to verify this as he has very high skills in FSU and stealing horses is a sure sign of either a b2b2b or FSU), instead of warring a bigger FS. I'm unaware of the talks but I'm sure TBB knows there's no point in closing relations w FS knowing full well the entire scheme was deliberately concocted. Why not choose the weaker Kd? To those naive ppl, u don't always get to close relations, especially when negotiating with very greedy ppl out there. Also, when you say relations, I would say it's 1-way hostile, i.e. FS giving the meter and TBB at most land lusting to recoup lost acres on their Elves.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

Question asked was if we did not get the gold to recover from war, would we have declined the harsh terms for CF and declared war?
A: I would have to say no. We would have had to roll over and take it like all kingdoms do when a larger and stronger kingdom wants their honor and acres.

So let me make sure I understand the rules so I don't make the same mistake in the future, and also maybe help others understand them better. "When you lose a war, do not seek aid to help your chained provinces explore and train just in case the winning kingdom decides they want more of your honor and acres. If they do decide they want more, just give it to them no matter how unreasonable their request is." Is that about right?

You see, the problem is not that we traded land for gold, cause it has already been established that many kingdoms do that without retribution. The problem is CR thought they could bully us and get free honor and acres, and they got punched in the mouth. You guys want to support the bully, and not the kingdom that stood up to them, go right ahead. No matter what happens, this age is a success for me because after years of being bullied by larger kingdoms wanting my honor and acres, I finally got to punch a bully in the mouth. AND IT FELT SOOOO GOOOOOD!!!

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No dude, "When you lose a war, do not seek aid to help your chained provinces explore and train just in case you're going to b2b them again". Make sure you're not going to war them again (=diplo) and AFTER THAT you get your gold and explore and whatnot. Get it ? 'Cause if you take the gold, gain the advantage over them and go to war to smash them .... bad sh*t could happen; bad sh*t like that you're experiencing just now.

Besides, you've just admitted that if it weren't for those hundreds of millions of gc, you wouldn't have gone to war no.2; your ww over them was a direct consequence of taking the money. You could not have won without it.

LE : If you took the money for something else than b2b war, why didn't you gave it back when it was obvious you're going to b2b ? Or, why didn't you told them to get an equal amount of gc, to match your "help for chained provinces to explore and train" ? LOL, exactly.

FYI jacko. U r being too naive. Diplos don't always work out if parties r not willing to give and take

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

FYI jacko. U r being too naive. Diplos don't always work out if parties r not willing to give and take

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Ok, if I'm naive, then how's Ed ? "Oh, we took the money for completely something else, but hey, they proved to be ok for getting us the win in our b2b war, although we never intended to do that". LMAO.

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Originally Posted by jacko

Ok, if I'm naive, then how's Ed ? "Oh, we took the money for completely something else, but hey, they proved to be ok for getting us the win in our b2b war, although we never intended to do that". LMAO.

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If CR still chose to wave, what do u expect TBB to do? "oh wait CR, I took heaps of gold from Spartan for rebuild and since you want to wave us, let us first return those GCs we took for rebuild, and then you can come at us. Deal?" I mean, seriously jacko?

Just wondering, which Kd are you in? Or which proxy are you in? However the case applies.

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

If CR still chose to wave, what do u expect TBB to do? "oh wait CR, I took heaps of gold from Spartan for rebuild and since you want to wave us, let us first return those GCs we took for rebuild, and then you can come at us. Deal?" I mean, seriously jacko?

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You don't think TBB wanted to b2b? They finished the first war with their elves completely untouched. They were hoping for b2b hence why they didn't accept Cr's terms. They just weren't smart enough to realise the only way cr could win was by engaging right away. Had they know that they could easily have exited eowcf with high hospitals and rebuilt in fort with 1 way ops and retailing just behind Cr. TBB just played it really badly.

Seriously, this would be the part where I tell something like : "Come on, don't tell me that it never occurred to you that you're in for a b2b ?" .... I have a deja-vu, this has already been said in here, quite a few times. I'm tired of that so I'm not going to repeat such basic stuff; if I'm correct, Matija said that you're supposed to be one of the oldest players in the game. I'm new anyway, but man, let me tell you, with such "arguments" like that from above, you don't really look that old/experienced to me.

And the kd I belong to (or other irrelevant info) has nothing to do with arguments that we bring into a debate. I.e, if we want to, at least, pretend we're in "search of the truth".

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Well then you at least admit I wasn't kicked, thank you.

PS I'm just trolling him, the picture was completely hazy, couldn't see anything.

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You were asked to leave. Not kick. Lol--ed. Seriously you are delusional. But I believe you should be in good hand now with Bart.

Cheers Uncle Ed, Im on neither side, I have no preference in this thing between TBB or CR, if I'm being brutally honest, i can see why CR would be pissed off, but i can also see why TBB who are used to war ends, fight ends and both move on, would feel harsh done by.

But for a very long time, the top has used b2b wars unless otherwise agreed beforehand or dealt via CF, to make sure they get the right position and remove a challenge to themselves in the process for at least a good few utopian YR's of the age.

I think TBB made a few major mistakes regarding diplo/choices, its hard to blame FS/CR for the mess, If i was in FS position i would have likely pushed on too until a CF was made, seeing they held all the cards after TBB doubled themselves, FS might have been greedy, but can't blame them for using TBB's mistake to their advantage. (its hard to judge though as i don't know which bits of it, is FS helping with the gc part).

As for TBB getting gc to rebuild, i think majority will say thats perfectly fine, but Bart posted earlier the gc was given to screw CR, in which case Bart at least knew that it would go to B2B or that TBB would use the gc to war CR again. (before CF deal was declined), and that doesn't look too good on TBB unfortunately.

As for Divinity, if what i wrote above is proven to be how things went down, i can imagine more then Divinity would wish to join in and punish that kind of play, whether its purely TBB's fault or not, they are now taking the heat for it, which would also explain why FS is sticking to it.


*Jacko i was making a joke in regards to the "who wants to be a millionaire" sentence that was posted.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
We farmed TBB the gc for the b2b after we signed off the age with Em. Before the first comflict TBB stole 15M that we owed them for land. CR QQed so we farmed CR the same on condition theyd be lenient in case of a victory allowing us to farm more land of TBB to war Emeriti. CR didnt and for us that was the (dutch) proverbial final drop that flooded the bucket. CR seems to think were their lapdogs. Well. the dog has grown teeth and might bite

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
I did it on purpose to cross CR, I never even hid that from anyone. I even publicly discussed this with Blizz in #tactics when he mentioned 100M and I told hik it was at least twice that. They messed with us for the 4th or 5th time over the last 3 ages. Tired of their nonsense and attitude as if they own the world. If it was TBB warring some other ghetto there would be no QQ.

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Im sure you can see reading this, that it looks "unfortunate" Uncle Ed.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

haha You guys only have 3 wars compared to the 7 that TBB has had.

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TBB has 3 only too. Cos you have 4 fake wars. Thus war win removed.

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

To FS LS, knowing full well that TBB v CR conflict hasn't ended and still choosing to wave 7x (not even a full wave...weird though), that's very low. I mean any observer can see miles away that CR intends for a b2b2b. If you can truthfully admit that you are unaware (I'm asking FS LS, not peons), that I won't harp on this any further.

From TBB's perspective, I would do the same, i.e. Wave CR who wants a b2b2b (based on CR actions on stealing horses...I mean why steal horses if u don't wanna b2b2b? We can ask master Feint to verify this as he has very high skills in FSU and stealing horses is a sure sign of either a b2b2b or FSU), instead of warring a bigger FS. I'm unaware of the talks but I'm sure TBB knows there's no point in closing relations w FS knowing full well the entire scheme was deliberately concocted. Why not choose the weaker Kd? To those naive ppl, u don't always get to close relations, especially when negotiating with very greedy ppl out there. Also, when you say relations, I would say it's 1-way hostile, i.e. FS giving the meter and TBB at most land lusting to recoup lost acres on their Elves.

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That's just stupid. Even if TBB and CR intends to go b2b2b2b2b2b2b2b for the rest of the age does that mean other kingdoms (not just FS) needs to respect that? They were in range and we wanted a chance to get a war and made the first move. Simple as that.

Had TBB wanted to go B2B2B with CR then sure thing - get a CF done and move on, go have your fun.

When there are no CF's in place between kingdoms it's a free for all - first come first serve. In fact, after coming back after years, I realized there this thing called "arranged war" now that is so completely retarded. When 2 kingdoms have an arranged war, other kingdoms are supposed to respect that and not get involved even without CF's in place?

All TBB ever had to do was approach FS long before they came out of war and negotiate some sort of CF with all potential threats so that they can happily war their desired KD in peace. Not doing so just shows the lack of experience from their leadership and lack of foresight.

The top kd's are the ones with the leadership to see threats and risks long before it can even happen.

Well, I think I already admitted that I am knew to the Top Tier of kingdoms and their ways. Things were much simpler in my Ghetto Kingdoms. You send out letter to ten monarchs saying, "Hey you want to war?", and one or two would reply. You negotiate, you war, you move on. Did I see the b2b coming? No, because like I said I NEVER waved a kingdom after beating them in war, and I never had a kingdom do it to me. So when you never see something in many years of playing this game, you definately don't see it coming.
I also admitted that I am not a leader in TBB, I am just a soldier. I barely pay attention to the chat on Whatsap, I just follow orders and instructions. Like I said, I did not need much aid to be ready coming oop and I was the smallest in the kingdom. Did the gold give us an advantage over CR? No, it made it an equal and fair fight, and CR, FS and Divinity just were not happy with those results.

Did you see that guys? The Bully got punched in the mouth!

Baka, read the posts. Noone believes that FS was intending to war TBB. In fact, I don't think they believe that FS wants to war anyone (unless another fake war with ascension). I mean, you only have 3 wars (probably all fake) this entire age, while TBB is in their 8th (most of them are those arranged wars where terms are discussed, acre caps, wave dates set...ever heard of those). The consensus is FS and CR wanted to make TBB pay for whooping CR in war, and Divinity has joined in. The goal was not war, son. It was turning TBB green. 3 down, 22 to go. Keep going bud, you can do it. Your parents will be so proud!

I don't speak for the other kd's but FS being happy or unhappy with the the result of 2 kingdoms dogging it out has nothing to do with us waving the only kd in range and without a CF.

However you see it or bend it, the fact of the matter is that if TBB was so ready to go for a B2B2B with CR, then all they had to do was mitigate all surrounding risks by asking KD's without CF's for a CF. It's all about foresight and planning.

If all else fails, war the kd that waves you instead of leaving relations open.

Everything else doesn't even matter - TBB screwed up. I just wish it doesn't demoralize the kd and it comes back with a vengeance.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

Baka, read the posts. Noone believes that FS was intending to war TBB. In fact, I don't think they believe that FS wants to war anyone (unless another fake war with ascension). I mean, you only have 3 wars (probably all fake) this entire age, while TBB is in their 8th (most of them are those arranged wars where terms are discussed, acre caps, wave dates set...ever heard of those). The consensus is FS and CR wanted to make TBB pay for whooping CR in war, and Divinity has joined in. The goal was not war, son. It was turning TBB green. 3 down, 22 to go. Keep going bud, you can do it. Your parents will be so proud!

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Christ, I give up. You're like on crack or just a damn good troll.

"Did the gold give us an advantage over CR? No, it made it an equal and fair fight"

vs.

"Question asked was if we did not get the gold to recover from war, would we have declined the harsh terms for CF and declared war?
A: I would have to say no. We would have had to roll over and take it like all kingdoms do when a larger and stronger kingdom wants their honor and acres. "


Logic fracture detected. Ed, I'm close to your age and it's 4 a.m. here. Still, I think that you should go to bed and take a nap. You need one.

Im sure noone is blaming you as a person/player Ed, a good soldiers does what a soldier is asked, especially if they have no interest in the leading side.

The gc might not have assisted you Ed, but your biggest provinces would have needed it to meet EPA/TPA requirements, especially if they had grown beyond what they were before war, a small province with high EPA, requires very little aid, as they will just need to rebuild dspecs/tpa to be ready, but when you need a big bunch of elites/tpa/dspecs + conversion on more expensive raze/rebuild duo to size, it is doubtful your biggest would have made it without that gc, which would then have left CR to farm your top fairly easy, if their own bigs were ready. (I'm looking at it from a strategic point of view).

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Originally Posted by baka

Christ, I give up. You're like on crack or just a damn good troll.

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I kinda believe what Uncle Ed said is true based on what he knew. But I don't think he is aware of what is happening in the bigger picture. This normally will happen if instruction or order is not from the monarch. It is from another kingdom.

It is just like an army going for Brigade exercise. Will the ground troops be aware of the whole battle plan?

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

I will quit uto once you're able to finish an age without disbanding your KD <3

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KD is not belongs to him 1 person. Same goes to disband, not his 1 person problem. You need both hand to clap. However you only need 1 hand to slap yourself which you always did.

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Originally Posted by JusticeLeague

I kinda believe what Uncle Ed said is true based on what he knew. But I don't think he is aware of what is happening in the bigger picture. This normally will happen if instruction or order is not from the monarch. It is from another kingdom.

It is just like an army going for Brigade exercise. Will the ground troops be aware of the whole battle plan?

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What does he actually "know"? I mean how does he "know" that CR/Divinity will wave in to the war if FS and CR actually went at it? It didn't even happen!

How do you "know" certain things will pan out when it never even happened? All he's doing is making things up!

Y'all need Jesus or something

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Originally Posted by baka

I don't speak for the other kd's but FS being happy or unhappy with the the result of 2 kingdoms dogging it out has nothing to do with us waving the only kd in range and without a CF.

However you see it or bend it, the fact of the matter is that if TBB was so ready to go for a B2B2B with CR, then all they had to do was mitigate all surrounding risks by asking KD's without CF's for a CF. It's all about foresight and planning.

If all else fails, war the kd that waves you instead of leaving relations open.

Everything else doesn't even matter - TBB screwed up. I just wish it doesn't demoralize the kd and it comes back with a vengeance.

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Somewhere in this thread, it was mentioned that TBB did ask FS for a CF after the b2b ended, but FS declined along with some kinda promise. It might take some time to find it from 56 pages !!

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Originally Posted by jacko

Seriously, this would be the part where I tell something like : "Come on, don't tell me that it never occurred to you that you're in for a b2b ?" .... I have a deja-vu, this has already been said in here, quite a few times. I'm tired of that so I'm not going to repeat such basic stuff; if I'm correct, Matija said that you're supposed to be one of the oldest players in the game. I'm new anyway, but man, let me tell you, with such "arguments" like that from above, you don't really look that old/experienced to me.

And the kd I belong to (or other irrelevant info) has nothing to do with arguments that we bring into a debate. I.e, if we want to, at least, pretend we're in "search of the truth".

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Not sure what's the relevance of that with how long I've played.

Just brushing my question away cos you don't have a better come-back. How convenient.

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

If CR still chose to wave, what do u expect TBB to do? "oh wait CR, I took heaps of gold from Spartan for rebuild and since you want to wave us, let us first return those GCs we took for rebuild, and then you can come at us. Deal?" I mean, seriously jacko?

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I dont think he will accept your challenge. He need meat balls to do that.