Anything interesting happening?

Kygal, it has nothing to do with them being new. I am a newer player than probably anyone in their kd. Zauper and I post more in the strategy section of these forums than any other leaders from top kd's. I am in PM with new players from ghettos in IRC regularly. Munk provides tools and services to multiple ghettos across the game. Hawk provides an entire server where most people using stinger reside. Furthermore, last age after our hostile with pyro we gave them line by line details about how we prepped for them and why doing a sci pump leading up to an eoa war was a bad idea.

On the flip side let's look at Pyro's actions. Last age when they realized they had messed up their prep they whined to an ally and robbed hundreds of millions of gc in preperation for us. When that still led to them getting farmed out they complained of internal issues(which turned out to be someone who had already set sitter) and internally blaimed our sci advantage. This was when they had 4 days of pumping over us and when their mistakes were clear to anyone who has had a war inwhich you prep. After the cf they then farmed out to a friendly ally. This age, they go 20 hum/wh+5 fae/myst which is likely the worst possible setup oop that a top kd could go. Furthermore they train almost all off and no tpa and have a pure whore build. When they get waved by us instead of recognizing why they are in such a bad situation they make up conspiracies about one of our leaders spying on them through his servers(which he is kind enough to host for THEIR use). They also instantly go whine to Bishop about something which obviously was counterproductive as it forced us to war 23v25.

It has nothing to do with Pyro being new, but rather with their mentality.

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Originally Posted by Godly

Palem, people create strategies in Chess, not the admins.

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They develop strategies based around the rules of the game. You can't develop a strategy where your opening move is bringing out your bishop, because that's against the rules.

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What I took note of is Sheister calling cowing an ABUSE of exploring mechanism. In his eyes, the legal strategy that players came up with called "cowing" is an ABUSE of mechanics. My point is THAT line of logic is VERY dangerous and what I am worried about when the noobs come out of the woodwork to start filing complaints about everything that was once considered strategy. We need to draw a clear distinction between BALANCING and ABUSE.

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I agree, but only because stretching the game's mechanics are not breaking them. What you guys did was break them (or try to) and that's no bueno.

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Originally Posted by 2Utopian

Is Godly's new sig actionable? It is hell lame, and that blue hurts my eyes.

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You can turn off signatures on your side if you want, or you could ignore godly entirely. It's not annoying enough for me to warrant changing it out of annoyance alone.

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Originally Posted by Anri

Utopia is not chess, learn the difference. Two different games.

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You missed the point entirely. Godly was discussing limits on strategy games ruining the strategy, so I brought up the ultimate strategy game, which very clearly has limits.

@ topsy - there's nothing wrong with people reported suspected game abuse.

fairly sure they suspected something goofy when you post about who they were the first day of the age, which isn't exactly unreasonable. If I see 20 human war heroes, my first thought isn't "this would be a war kingdom like pyro"

Tetly, go read the announcement where they say they will continue to monitor to make sure that its sufficient..... clearly they were trying to do something to make it so people did not pull this crap and then saw, oh, the mechanic is not strong enough, ok, we need to do it the hard way. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by flogger

fairly sure they suspected something goofy when you post about who they were the first day of the age, which isn't exactly unreasonable. If I see 20 human war heroes, my first thought isn't "this would be a war kingdom like pyro"

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Pyros talked non-stop about how good Human war hero was in freeze time. Once in war I was chatting to one of our players (not hawk) about who he thinks it was and he suggested pyros, to which I agreed.

I posted in the war forums guessing it was pyros, they themselves simply confirmed it.

They posted that we were CR first and I merely took a guess it was pyros and let the **** storm ensue

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Originally Posted by Zauper

bull****. You deal broke.

I told you to give them time and they would offer you a deal.

they did.

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Time to GB CR and Fake rage for deal breaks and lies last age and known and sanctioned cheaters playing under the cloak of fair play

Flogger, here is our council when I learned of a 20 hum/wh+5fae/myst setup 6 hours away

[23:36] <@topsy> are you hungry?
[23:36] <@topsy> cause that's bb, ama, or pyro
[23:36] <@topsy> and they are talking to us
[23:36] <@topsy> communicating across islands
[23:37] <@topsy> "eat me"
[23:37] <@topsy> "eat me"
[23:37] <@topsy> can you hear them zaup?

and then:
[23:46] <@topsy> i think its pyro

Respect all around, but I was in irc and it was clear to anyone neutral who was playing the aggressor. It was ABsish. Pyro might not be all that, but you're making sure they know it. Claiming snitch is bush-league. No point in defending Pyro since the beloved would've kicked me anyway. That's not what is wrong.
Folks are not completely bad or good. It's nice that zauper and topsy lend their knowledge. It still doesn't change the harm that is critical to a shrinking game. Winning is wonderful, but it's better without undue mechanical advantage. Basically you're saying you engaged a poorly built kingdom with a full-bore overloaded questionable strat, fully expecting not just to win, but to humiliate Pyro. Step back a second. I thought you already did that last age. Restraint would've been in order. Look at your roster before you start thinking aggressive thoughts.

And, I'll remind you again: 10 spots down in the charts the AMA charge on you guys wouldn't have registered a blip.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

Respect all around, but I was in irc and it was clear to anyone neutral who was playing the aggressor. It was ABsish. Pyro might not be all that, but you're making sure they know it. Claiming snitch is bush-league. No point in defending Pyro since the beloved would've kicked me anyway. That's not what is wrong.
Folks are not completely bad or good. It's nice that zauper and topsy lend their knowledge. It still doesn't change the harm that is critical to a shrinking game. Winning is wonderful, but it's better without undue mechanical advantage. Basically you're saying you engaged a poorly built kingdom with a full-bore overloaded questionable strat, fully expecting not just to win, but to humiliate Pyro. Step back a second. I thought you already did that last age. Restraint would've been in order. Look at your roster before you start thinking aggressive thoughts.

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I use to help Pyro.
Rage use to help Pyro.
Pyro thought they knew best and it blew back in their faces. Their pre-pump and prep for CR was so bad.

There is no doubt Pyro is a great warring kingdom but they should be willing to accept they need help in the other areas of the game. If they get that from AMA then great. We tried giving it last age to them but they didn't want it. I just hope that if they are allied with AMA this age that Elit does not screw them over like he did to Pew/Simians few ages back.

I find it funny that this is your response to me saying you robbed 150m gc from your ally 3 days before our conflict,

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Originally Posted by TheOne

1. get your numbers right
-cJ

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When this convo happened ~12 hours before I made that post.

[21:36] <Nick_mi> wait
[21:36] <Nick_mi> you robbed 150m gc
[21:37] <Nick_mi> from your ally last age 3 days before our conflict?
[21:38] <cJ> i like it how you all exaggerate numbers to suit the stories
[21:38] <cJ> anyway wanna sc2? our trops are all out
[21:38] <cJ> sc2 and uto stuff are diff.
[21:38] <Nick_mi> see, notice how I didn't go public with it
[21:38] <Nick_mi> I came here
[21:38] <Nick_mi> to ask you
[21:38] <Nick_mi> to clarify
[21:38] <Nick_mi> it's good strat, you should use it
[21:40] <Nick_mi> so is that true?
[21:40] <Nick_mi> Because if you don't deny it or clarify it, I'm going to assume it's true

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Originally Posted by Godly

Let me help you. Game mechanics are what is written in the game (coded). They are released every round with patch notes (changes). It is our job as talented players to figure out how to break (abuse) those changes by finding the most imba strategy that they didn't see when they thought they balanced their game.

Learn how to compete, sir. I know you're new in utopia, but this is what has gone on for 17 years.

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Yes and occasionally somebody pushes too far and they get smashed, and you pushed too far. That's also what has gone on for 17 years.
It's a fine line to walk and sometimes somebody stumbles.

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Originally Posted by Godly

Is the specific action here because shop items are so sacred that we can't ever use them for an advantage?

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Yes shop items are that sacred, or at least they should be, if we allow people to use shop items to gain an unfair advantage we're essentially making the game pay to win which isn't what utopia is supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by topsy's revenge

Flogger, here is our council when I learned of a 20 hum/wh+5fae/myst setup 6 hours away

[23:36] <@topsy> are you hungry?
[23:36] <@topsy> cause that's bb, ama, or pyro
[23:36] <@topsy> and they are talking to us
[23:36] <@topsy> communicating across islands
[23:37] <@topsy> "eat me"
[23:37] <@topsy> "eat me"
[23:37] <@topsy> can you hear them zaup?

and then:
[23:46] <@topsy> i think its pyro

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The point I was bringing up was that if someone is getting waved the first 6 hours of the game and the other side knows their location, it's likely the other side will suspect foul play and/or be really really pissed. None of these things are uncommon.

Nice of you to tell me who ya traded locs with pre-age though, that's helpful information.

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Originally Posted by topsy's revenge

Kygal, it has nothing to do with them being new. I am a newer player than probably anyone in their kd. Zauper and I post more in the strategy section of these forums than any other leaders from top kd's. I am in PM with new players from ghettos in IRC regularly. Munk provides tools and services to multiple ghettos across the game. Hawk provides an entire server where most people using stinger reside. Furthermore, last age after our hostile with pyro we gave them line by line details about how we prepped for them and why doing a sci pump leading up to an eoa war was a bad idea.

On the flip side let's look at Pyro's actions. Last age when they realized they had messed up their prep they whined to an ally and robbed hundreds of millions of gc in preperation for us. When that still led to them getting farmed out they complained of internal issues(which turned out to be someone who had already set sitter) and internally blaimed our sci advantage. This was when they had 4 days of pumping over us and when their mistakes were clear to anyone who has had a war inwhich you prep. After the cf they then farmed out to a friendly ally. This age, they go 20 hum/wh+5 fae/myst which is likely the worst possible setup oop that a top kd could go. Furthermore they train almost all off and no tpa and have a pure whore build. When they get waved by us instead of recognizing why they are in such a bad situation they make up conspiracies about one of our leaders spying on them through his servers(which he is kind enough to host for THEIR use). They also instantly go whine to Bishop about something which obviously was counterproductive as it forced us to war 23v25.

It has nothing to do with Pyro being new, but rather with their mentality.

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lmao topsy, you newer than anyone else in pyros? whose used car are you trying to sell? maybe you should take a look at the roster that we have. We are all proud of not having any superstars (because it's really hard to attract superstars to your kingdom) and we are willing to work with each other to make things work. while on the other hand, your kingdom has full of skilled players who years of experience, and this is how you all act?

What Kygal says is true, you guys are probably the most <insert adjective> bunch out there (and personally I never knew you to be like this).. Pyro did well in age 58+59 warring (unbeaten 6/6 and 7/7), and last age we did well winning vs legacy+bb+simians but lost with terrible prep vs CR. We publicly said that we're not used with those deep drafting stuff and all and that's why we lost. Do we think we are the best? Definitely not. Do we think we are good? We think we can give the big boys a run for their money (Seen from what happened last age).

We dont need to purposely get sick advantages to win wars or bully people around. Flogger and Protector can confirm that last age we give them extended CF (~3-4weeks) to prepare against Pyro when they were much smaller in size. And why did we do that? Because 2 ages ago, they needed acres in the EJ+AMA+BB race to land crown, and they respected our position at that time when we needed the acres to war.

And also, we didnt have a 4 days advantage pumping over yo guys. You all had eowcf benefits and all while we were losing troops joining the FPA (initially for the right cause but later for a dubious cause). Why do CR people always forget to include the good stuff that we do? Does the community even know that we gave you a 8-days extension for your to prepare against us? Do I really need to say it out there that Pyros didnt want to 'vulture' CR and just notice straight up after you guys CF AMA?

If the community didnt know, we were free to notice you straight away, but Nesta+myself felt it was unfair and we said internally we will try to beat you guys in a fair war, which of course didnt turn out fine cause we dont know how to pmp. We gave you a 8days extension. Funny how you guys keep insulting us for not knowing how to properly prepare, when we openly admit we are nubs at that. And mention about how we have extra prep time (when it isnt hte case) and conveniently forgetting to say how we gave you guys extra prep time.

You guys like to exaggerate numbers to sway the community, you guys like to QQ in #tactics with your masses to spread propaganda and all. I'm glad bishop came in and confirmed all the lies about how much military you all mentioned you all lost, and that i posted the 2 SOTs of those 2 that aided out and Godly kept quiet after that. Hundred of millions of gc from an ally last age? I'm sure.

We do not think we are the best kingdom out there, but from the past few ages, we are the best warring tier kingdom to ever step foot in the whoring tier. And what do we get? A whole bunch of top play politics and ****play all around. I dont think the most stacked roster in the server should be behaving like what you guys are behaving.

'They also instantly go whine to Bishop about something which obviously was counterproductive as it forced us to war 23v25. ' -> you still dont get it do you? You like to put the blame on others for actions meted upon your clear abuse of mechanics.

-cJ

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Originally Posted by American Badass

I use to help Pyro.
Rage use to help Pyro.
Pyro thought they knew best and it blew back in their faces. Their pre-pump and prep for CR was so bad.

There is no doubt Pyro is a great warring kingdom but they should be willing to accept they need help in the other areas of the game. If they get that from AMA then great. We tried giving it last age to them but they didn't want it. I just hope that if they are allied with AMA this age that Elit does not screw them over like he did to Pew/Simians few ages back.

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AB, I believed We publicly acknowledged Drixx + Tox + WB + Binar + others (sorry to leave whoever out) for guiding Nesta, myself & Pyros last age. I dont understand why you mentioned that you tried giving us help but we didnt take it. You can ask Drixx, I have thanked him many times in private PM.

Ofc we need help in other parts of the game, no top warring tier kingdom suddenly goes up to whore and does a good job. Only reason why we did well last age was because of advice and help from our 2 allies Pew and Rage. They helped alot in planning our setup and giving advice vs Simians + BB. We know we need help in those heavy drafted wars + diplo/politics/countering****play. And no, we're not allied to AMA. And no, Elit isnt the only 1 we speak to for advice.

Our pre-pump for CR was bad, and we publicly admitted. our first time doing such wars as you never do it in the warring tier. Why are you still digging on it? We know our mistakes. Did we ever say we know everything? No we didnt. Do you think a top warring kingdom with no background in top top whoreing wars and whose core probably have like 5-6 people who fought such wars before knows what to do? And whose leaders have never fought such wars can do it correct the first try?

We tried our best, and we failed.

You probably hate us because we left the FPA at the timing where Rage was getting hit by AMA, but why do you leave out the convenient details that the same CF that you guys got with AMA was the same offer Nesta+Me got 2days before that CF you got. But you guys refused that initial. If anyone in the community wants me to apologize for pulling out of the FPA after the FPA themselves threatened to do XX YY ZZ on AMA, I will never apologize for it. Because we didnt do anything wrong.

-cJ