Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlightyear
Elf is awesome. It's only problem is it's elites are 6 fricken NW.
Perfect race as dedicated pitfaller, greed, or fireballer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlightyear
Elf is awesome. It's only problem is it's elites are 6 fricken NW.
Perfect race as dedicated pitfaller, greed, or fireballer.
as usual, these threads are littered with copious amounts of stupid
Where is Sheppard ,with the immunity to dragons ,bushels prod ...etc ?
I have no idea why ppl complain about sage being nerfed since it was so obviously OP.Good changes to this personality.
The items you list are to weak for a pers. Shep was mostly picked for cheaper exploration. I'm glad shep is gone so new kids are no longer led to believe that exploration without teamwork is a good growth strategyQuote:
Originally Posted by Snp
I don't think Orcs are very op, their leets are expensive and nw heavy. If you add lower TPA/WPA you will only give T/M's an easier time on a heavy attackers that they should be able to op without worry anyways. Only thing i can say is they are only op when compared to undeads, it seems no contest for heavy attacker. I would say give undeads +1 off specs to help them compete for top attack role.
Humans are interesting i think, if played right they could be a low NW money machine with decent a/m/t capabilities. Go sage and pour you money into sci and your golden.
I would like to point out that even stupid posts are more productive than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
Only Faery now could cast Mystic Aura.
Give it to someone, Elves for example. Or to Mystic Personality.
Looks a bit ridiculous: Orcs have 5 racial spells, Elves only 4.
P.S. Elves now looks much prettier then in rev 1.
Yeah to connect back to my previous post, you could give the mystic aura to halfers, their self spellbook sucks and I think they are a little weak as is. Even though invisibility is strong, not many people use TW especially with the reduced birthrates, its really no good unless you are on the verge of being UB in war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vit
lol, it was just a day's time and the thread increases 5 pages long xD Actually the way I saw the races changes are like pairs, perhaps thats what the development team wanted for the next age.
Pair 1, Hybrids:
Avian - A/T
Dwarf - A/M
Pair 2, Super T/Ms:
Elf - Super Mage
Halfler - Super Thieve
Edited Pair 3, Strong Offence Attackers:
Orc - Strong Offence Attacker without oping ability and with better magic defence
Undead - Strong Offence Attacker with oping ability and without any t/m defence
Pair 4, T/Ms:
Faery - Quality T/M with bonus in Wpa Tpa and Damage
Human - Quantity T/M with bonus in Population and Damage
PS: Human actually doesn't lose his income strength totally. The +30% income is swifted towards the ToG spell which you will no longer see an inactive Human race with millions of gc, but with hundred of thousands of runes perhaps :p
Overall, you can see eventually there is no absolute way for a race to turtle and defence themselves like an unbreakable castle. Every races has its weaknesses and it is breakable.
But still, I am against the Elfs with extra manas and Nightmare spell as usual :\
I think Orcs are a bit overpowered with the Reflect Magic spell. Remove it from them, all the other changes are fine :)
why not make science gains based on enemy kingdoms science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
10% of losing kingdoms science. So say they have 250,000 books total :
250,000 / 25 (amount of provinces) so 10,000 books lost of each member
Kingdom that won
250,000 / 21 Provinces - 11,905 books gained per kingdom member
Rough figures and % for easy working out.
BTW will science gained come to winning kingdom as "raw" books or will it be like a learn hit whereby you cannot choose where it will be distributed?
I think all land should come back and when that land is back ALL province members get 70% of max population, all troops home etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by THX1912
Orc
+25% Damage Received from Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage
Now this IS a penalty.
give it 50% reduced gains when ambushed.... its a perfect match and i agree this pers needs a tad moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
I agree, war hero is just a tad bit weak. I suggested -50% honor losses on incoming land attacks/ops, instead of the honor bonus, but your addition would make it a decent personality as well.
Bishop, I don't see any race with MA. Does Fae still have it or is it gone next age?
Good question landro! Was wondering that also
Regardless of what the final tweaks look like, I really like the way Age 54 is shaping up. It's a much needed shift to a more dynamic warring game. Great job on the changes—I'm looking forward to the age start.
+1 off specs on Undeads would be a good boost so they make a viable option for pure attackers compared to Orcs . Or reduce the sci penalty to -10%
humans and fearies still seem a bit too strong and in an age with many more and stronger hybrids, orcs and undeads seems to be lacking defence against it.
my note on avians is that their elite is very weak for the cost and what use will a A/t possibly have of vermin?
change vermin and increase the def value(6/4 or 6/3 to rival elves and dwarves) or decrease the cost of the elite to 650 at least.
vermin? make it a thief op and increase its effect by 50%. starvation has been a far too small factor in this game for too long and its really an interesting mechanic.
possibly making it a rogue and avian exclusive? this will increase the worth of greater arson(a seldom used op). rogue as it is, is a weak personality at the moment(sure AW will be more powerfull now but how fun is it to only cast that 24/7?)
An avian a/t with elites only defending at 2 is just massacre bait, not a viable combo at all. The +40% thievery damage bonus on a race with no other t/m advantages and weak elites is bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjukis
The Orcs are op.
Remove the Reflect Magic spell, lower attackpower to 8 or remove train elites with credits.
Not many people saying this because they go- "Hell yeah! Im playing Orc next age, what a setup for my kd!!!" in their mind.
Actually quite a few people have said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxin
lol realest got owned :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Wrekx
When you can NS you cant have a high offence elites because your thievery ops would already help you reduce the defence of your target. That's how the races shape always like. Have a look at the Halfling and Faeries, their offence are usually low.
The lost of Clear Sight spell probably means that usually Clear Sight spell does not give to races which has thievery advantages, thats how I noticed from the ages changes.
Personally I think Merchant should be the best since what A/T require the most is usually money, or Rogue for better propaganda gain with the bonus combo. If not same usual Clerics but a Cleric wont be having the income needed to train its thieves for oping. So overall Sage and War Hero is a no no for sure and next is Mystic should be the least possible personality that would be picked as a combo.
Vermin I agree it seems weird for an Avian, Human would seems more suitable, but it sounds logical because it is been given to an A/T race.
A/T race which has the ops damage as well combine with the attack speed is quite powerful. The only thing I feel is perhaps that -10% attack gain instead that makes ppl feel Avian is too weak at the moment.
It means you can NS (with the cost of thieve losses), you can break your target with a lower offence, you can attack faster(with the cost of greater elites losses), but in the end your gain is been reduced. So its kind of feeling like investing twise the effort but end up getting a same result and wasting effort. If you imagine all the pros and cons of Avian without its -10% gain, then the race should seem a lot better.
My opinions;
When killing dragons races spec value have to be taken into consideration. A 6 def spec should do 6 damage, not 5. Fae's off spec should do 4.
RACES
Avian; remove vermin (makes little sense or use), add a little extra (like -25% attack time, or slightly cheaper elite).
Dwarf; still a little weak, give them +20% BE.
Elves; remove nightmare, but give them some more spells to play with.
Faery; for a TM race only it looks good. If you want someone to consider them for A/M etc, change off spec penalty to +20% offensive losses or something similar, not completely ruining their hybrid role.
Halflings; seems a bit weak. Give them Vermin and Aggression back at least. First makes sense, the second does not, but give the soldiers+aggression strat merit.
Humans; a little weak all rounder. +15% Pop should go a long way to help.
Orcs; remove Reflect Magic OR switch to -25% TPA and WPA OR +25% Damage from Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage.
Undead; give them back Nightmare and reduce sci penalty to -15% or something.
PERSONALITIES
Merchant; perfect.
The Sage; a little weak, needs a small boost. Give them back the free science from land OR reduced book costs, or something else.
The Rogue; perfect.
The Mystic; good, though it seems slightly stronger than Rogue, and I think those two should be balanced.
The Warrior; like it.
The Tactitian; if you make Orcs a little less powerful, I don't think this personality is too OP. Orc/Tact looks a bit too strong atm.
The Cleric; a small generic bonus might make this a little more exciting. How about a small BR bonus.
The War Hero; too weak. Give him -50% losses from Ambush or something similar that fits.
For all of you complaining about the hybrids being "unplayable" with the potential changes! You fail to realize the damage a small group of A/t and A/m can do in war. Theyre still able to hit any pure attacker with their army out without suiciding..... With changes right now a core of avians and dwarfs will be able to compete all age with undead/orc kingdoms... 12 avians running 4 rTPA with +40% thievery damage and some science can deal out some heavy damage during war...
Someone else made this point earlier, and I agree with this too. I've always thought it was wrong for specs to fight dragons at different numbers than they fight other races in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by azdw
**** is boring.
Undeads
1600gc Elite
+1 deff spec
Orc
1200 Elite
-15% tpa/wpa
Elves
Change elite to 7/3
Faery,
give back MS
Dwarf/avian/Human
Just boring, dont know what to do.
Throwing out some random T/M damage to various races wont change anything. Still no space to get any good modifiers. Everything just seem like some random changes for **** and giggles
The issue with Avians is that the lack the space allocation.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerricK
-20% Attack Time (Was -30% Attack Time). This means if Avians want to get their attack times down where they were it would take an Avian/Tactician or building alot more barracks.
Lost the +1 def spec so you need more defense specs to reach the same mark (less chance to turtle in a sense)
For the +40 thievery damage you need the thieves for it (4rTPA in your case)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets say you have 10% Homes for the sake of improving population a bit more along with an 8% pop bonus at 1000 acres:
900 x 25 = 22500 (population from homes)
100 x 33 = 3300 (population from homes)
This equates to 25800 base max population
25800*1.08 = 27864 max population
27864 * 0.68 = 18947 military force
18947 - 4000 = 14947 military
Guess what you only have 14947 soldiers to allocate into defense specs and elites if you don't run any wizards with a 68% draft rate.
8000 * 7 = 56000 raw MO from elites
(6947 * 5) + (8000 * 2) = 50735 total defense (34735 defense when all elites are out)
Just my preliminary take on the second round of proposals:
Ummm... Gee, now they're only the teeniest bit faster on attacks than Tacticians - and Avian Tactician can just match their current base racial mod. But I can cope with that if they have something worthwhile to compensate for it.Quote:
Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage
-10% attack gains
No Access to Stables
Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW
+40% Thievery Damage?!? That's a new twist on Avian - doable, I suppose, but nowhere in line with their archetype. This certainly doesn't blow my skirt up.
Lost one point defense on their Specs and two points on their Elite (which now costs MORE)! If you're trying to turn Avians into Age 54's prey species, you've succeeded admirably.
Lose the Thievery mod, bring back 6-point Specs (Dspecs at minimum, preferably both), and give them an 8/2 Elite for that price & NW (and for the love of whatever deity you worship, give them a spell book worthy of an attacker) and Avians just might survive.
This one is actually pretty good. Gaining a respectable Elite actually makes them viable again. The spell mod is an unusual perk - not traditional, but workable. Maybe nudge their BE bonus up to +15%, assuming they don't keep their current +20%.Quote:
Dwarf
+10% BE
+30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use Credits to raze buildings
+50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available
Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW
Might could use a smidge of polish, but quite workable as-is.Quote:
Elves
+50% WPA
+1 Mana in War
+1 Defense Specialist Strength
Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW
Also quite workable.Quote:
Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA
-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2
Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW
Spell book is a little weak. Maybe give back Vermin and Aggression.Quote:
Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 Stealth
-50% thief cost
-15% Birth Rate
Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW
Still needs a bit more.... Perhaps making Homes twice as effective for them (subject to DBE) will even them out.
Should probably rein in the Thievery and Spells bonus to +40% each. Give back GP and maybe +15% Income and you may be onto something.Quote:
Humans
+10% Population
+50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW
I'm with many others in agreeing they should lose Reflect Magic - perhaps give it to Halfers since they need the boost. Otherwise, they look fine to me.Quote:
Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits
-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage
Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW
Even with the increased Science penalty, these guys seem a bit much, but I'm not quite sure what needs changing. Definitely should lose GP - that's more in line for Humans than Undead.Quote:
The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed
-25% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 7.5NW
Personalities look good although, by reducing Sage's protection from -75% to -66%, maybe they should regain a modest discount to research expenses - at least -10% Book Costs.
I like these changes 100% better, thank you so much!!
ALL HAIL THE UTOPIAN GODS!
even i am impressed!
being t/m is the only way to go. and still be able to attack as well. no more waiting around for a t/m to show up cause you can do your on t/m ops. +50 halfers woo hoo!
Very constructive post, thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtopiaKarateKid
no specs? elites only?
I really like this analysis... until the end. I hope I'm not being defensive, as this age I'm playing an Elf/Mystic. Either way I'm not playing an Elf again next age, I just figured I'd give my input specifically on Elves since that's what I know best:Quote:
Originally Posted by UtopiaKarateKid
With these changes, Elf/Mystic should be specialized into duration spells, while Faeries hold the edge in instant/damage spells (+30%). Giving them NS isn't as big a deal as if they still had +30% instant damage... because as it is with these changes that is still a job ideally handled by Faeries.
Considering the nerf to their attacking ability, I really don't think the continued mana bonus/added NS is unwarranted. They should be capable of being good mages if they can't attack nearly as well. And it's not like we saw a ton of Elves the last 3 ages even with the mana bonus. So obviously the mana bonus isn't making the race overpowered!
I still think the Elf changes are perfect and the numbers behind them are perfect... it gives them purpose and significance as a support class! Before they were just sub-par attackers and sub-par mages. I, personally, don't mind them losing a little bit of one or the other to make them actually good at something.
My feedback is that It's a good balance this round except Human race.
Even with the +10% pop and the ability for Human to go purely leets, Human would still be very weak. Spending all peasants into leets would still be a very weak race, let alone trying to hybrid it into an A/t or an A/t (worst is A/t/m). I would recommend to remove the either the thievery bonus or magic bonus for humans (Humans are supposed to be weak at magic anyway) and give Human a 6/5 leets to balance out everything.
0.0 im honoured... thank you :)
I think dwarf should get +40% instant spell damage to parallel the avian's +40% thievery damage so that +30% (faery), +40% (avian/dwarf) and +50% (human) damage values are all in the game for both thief and mage damage.
Race Changes
Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage
- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables
Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW
Right now versus dwarf, orc, or undead avians are really left behind. They also lack more space to hybrid out as well. To tune them upwards i'd adjust their attack time back to 30%, up their elite to an 8/2, and bringing back Ver.1 war spoils. This gives them the ability to hybrid out easier and protect their valuable elites. War spoils normally is a risky move, but on an avian with incredibly fast speed and instant growth they could get their elites back in time, and a higher population with town watch, for a more sturdy defense. Not terribly stronger defense mind you but sturdy enough for them to plan their next surgical strike.
Dwarf
+ 10% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings
+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available
Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW
Perfect. Simply perfect.
Elves
+50% WPA
+1 mana in war
+ 1 defence specialist strength
Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW
Perfect as well.
Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA
-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2
Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW
All i'd do is remove the -2 from specs and change elite value to 3/7. With those faeries are in line with other races wanting to be TM with this race being the base, while others races specialize in one or the other.
Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 stealth
- 50% thief cost
-15% Birth Rate
Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW
Needs something to clean up space for a/T's but i'm stumped as to what as humans now have the pop bonus.
Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW
Versatile race.
Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits
-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage
Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW
Strong race with no real definate negatives in it's primary role. Instead of the ops negatives put a +10% Enemy Operations Damage or Suffers 10% more casualties as a penalty to limit them in some way. The extra casualties they suffer are made up by their credits by gains and/or personality.
The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed
- 25% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 7.5NW
I personally love the undead race but it's way overshadowed by orc and even dwarf for me. It takes two bonus slots for an effect that is either easily avoided, or very hard to guage. And it's specialist conversions work only on land based attacks while still suffering losses. I'd be happy to drop the elite to 8/3 or 7/4 at the same prices, leaving orc king for best attacking elite, to really up the virulence factor when undeads attack. They are penalized enough by the severe science limitations, but if the plague was left random on defensive hits/plagued provinces, but 100% plagues on successfull offensive strikes, it makes planning and coordinating attacks with this race just as important.
Personality Changes
The Merchant
+30% Income
-50% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks
Immunity to all Income Penalties (Riots, Plagues, etc.)
Great.
The Sage
+ 25% Science effectiveness
-66% Losses on Learn Attacks
Immune to The Plague
Nice. Needed a little nerfing and done without damaging the personality too much overall.
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are twice as effective (subject to DBE)
I'd remove the DBE penalty from this or up the power/difficulty of those 3 operations. While i've used them this round I used basic thievery operations a LOT more than I did these three due to the rest of the thieves operations being more useful. For example greater arson could destroy specific buildings and make them uninhabitable for a set ammount of hours. Barren land already has a spot in growth page so the timer on it could be seen from there. Assasinate wizards could stay as difficult since i'm expecting more a/m's next round. Propaganda honestly I'd rather see it be targetable like Greater Arson. This way you don't have operations in which you lose thieves but gain 0 of a type just because it's not there at the time or not even trained.
The Mystic
Access to Meteor Showers
All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective
+50% Spell Duration (For Duration Spells Only)
+1 mana per tick in War
Perfect.
The Warrior
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range
Very nice.
The Tactician
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage (in war)
Very very nice!
The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Animate Dead spell always active
I'd add a birth rate bonus on it as well to stimulate your province. Makes sense that a cleric on hand would ease childbirthing.
The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time
It's still weak as a personality. For you to make it an honor based personality I'd add something on the line of "Gains 3 honor/tick" to it and remove the gains to honor. Honor is hard to come by and even harder to keep. The extra honor gained per hour would end up being 72 a day or 504 a week. If a province never fought, entered war, and stayed safe an entire age they would only be at 8556 honor by the end of the age. The chances of a province staying safe that long are slim to none, but would allow the province to slowly move back up the ladder to get the bonuses from it back again.