Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

[Ahab]

humans and fearies still seem a bit too strong and in an age with many more and stronger hybrids, orcs and undeads seems to be lacking defence against it.

my note on avians is that their elite is very weak for the cost and what use will a A/t possibly have of vermin?
change vermin and increase the def value(6/4 or 6/3 to rival elves and dwarves) or decrease the cost of the elite to 650 at least.

vermin? make it a thief op and increase its effect by 50%. starvation has been a far too small factor in this game for too long and its really an interesting mechanic.
possibly making it a rogue and avian exclusive? this will increase the worth of greater arson(a seldom used op). rogue as it is, is a weak personality at the moment(sure AW will be more powerfull now but how fun is it to only cast that 24/7?)

An avian a/t with elites only defending at 2 is just massacre bait, not a viable combo at all. The +40% thievery damage bonus on a race with no other t/m advantages and weak elites is bizarre.

[Maxin]

The Orcs are op.
Remove the Reflect Magic spell, lower attackpower to 8 or remove train elites with credits.

Not many people saying this because they go- "Hell yeah! Im playing Orc next age, what a setup for my kd!!!" in their mind.

[Ahab]

The Orcs are op.
Remove the Reflect Magic spell, lower attackpower to 8 or remove train elites with credits.

Not many people saying this because they go- "Hell yeah! Im playing Orc next age, what a setup for my kd!!!" in their mind.

Actually quite a few people have said it.

[tak3shi]

I would like to point out that even stupid posts are more productive than that.

lol realest got owned :P

[UtopiaKarateKid]

When you can NS you cant have a high offence elites because your thievery ops would already help you reduce the defence of your target. That's how the races shape always like. Have a look at the Halfling and Faeries, their offence are usually low.

The lost of Clear Sight spell probably means that usually Clear Sight spell does not give to races which has thievery advantages, thats how I noticed from the ages changes.

Personally I think Merchant should be the best since what A/T require the most is usually money, or Rogue for better propaganda gain with the bonus combo. If not same usual Clerics but a Cleric wont be having the income needed to train its thieves for oping. So overall Sage and War Hero is a no no for sure and next is Mystic should be the least possible personality that would be picked as a combo.

Vermin I agree it seems weird for an Avian, Human would seems more suitable, but it sounds logical because it is been given to an A/T race.

A/T race which has the ops damage as well combine with the attack speed is quite powerful. The only thing I feel is perhaps that -10% attack gain instead that makes ppl feel Avian is too weak at the moment.

It means you can NS (with the cost of thieve losses), you can break your target with a lower offence, you can attack faster(with the cost of greater elites losses), but in the end your gain is been reduced. So its kind of feeling like investing twise the effort but end up getting a same result and wasting effort. If you imagine all the pros and cons of Avian without its -10% gain, then the race should seem a lot better.

[azdw]

My opinions;

When killing dragons races spec value have to be taken into consideration. A 6 def spec should do 6 damage, not 5. Fae's off spec should do 4.

RACES

Avian; remove vermin (makes little sense or use), add a little extra (like -25% attack time, or slightly cheaper elite).

Dwarf; still a little weak, give them +20% BE.

Elves; remove nightmare, but give them some more spells to play with.

Faery; for a TM race only it looks good. If you want someone to consider them for A/M etc, change off spec penalty to +20% offensive losses or something similar, not completely ruining their hybrid role.

Halflings; seems a bit weak. Give them Vermin and Aggression back at least. First makes sense, the second does not, but give the soldiers+aggression strat merit.

Humans; a little weak all rounder. +15% Pop should go a long way to help.

Orcs; remove Reflect Magic OR switch to -25% TPA and WPA OR +25% Damage from Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage.

Undead; give them back Nightmare and reduce sci penalty to -15% or something.

PERSONALITIES

Merchant; perfect.

The Sage; a little weak, needs a small boost. Give them back the free science from land OR reduced book costs, or something else.

The Rogue; perfect.

The Mystic; good, though it seems slightly stronger than Rogue, and I think those two should be balanced.

The Warrior; like it.

The Tactitian; if you make Orcs a little less powerful, I don't think this personality is too OP. Orc/Tact looks a bit too strong atm.

The Cleric; a small generic bonus might make this a little more exciting. How about a small BR bonus.

The War Hero; too weak. Give him -50% losses from Ambush or something similar that fits.

[TerricK]

For all of you complaining about the hybrids being "unplayable" with the potential changes! You fail to realize the damage a small group of A/t and A/m can do in war. Theyre still able to hit any pure attacker with their army out without suiciding..... With changes right now a core of avians and dwarfs will be able to compete all age with undead/orc kingdoms... 12 avians running 4 rTPA with +40% thievery damage and some science can deal out some heavy damage during war...

[Ahab]

When killing dragons races spec value have to be taken into consideration. A 6 def spec should do 6 damage, not 5. Fae's off spec should do 4.

Someone else made this point earlier, and I agree with this too. I've always thought it was wrong for specs to fight dragons at different numbers than they fight other races in the game.

[TRiV]

**** is boring.

Undeads
1600gc Elite
+1 deff spec

Orc
1200 Elite
-15% tpa/wpa

Elves
Change elite to 7/3

Faery,
give back MS

Dwarf/avian/Human
Just boring, dont know what to do.


Throwing out some random T/M damage to various races wont change anything. Still no space to get any good modifiers. Everything just seem like some random changes for **** and giggles

[Natsu]

For all of you complaining about the hybrids being "unplayable" with the potential changes! You fail to realize the damage a small group of A/t and A/m can do in war. Theyre still able to hit any pure attacker with their army out without suiciding..... With changes right now a core of avians and dwarfs will be able to compete all age with undead/orc kingdoms... 12 avians running 4 rTPA with +40% thievery damage and some science can deal out some heavy damage during war...

The issue with Avians is that the lack the space allocation.

-20% Attack Time (Was -30% Attack Time). This means if Avians want to get their attack times down where they were it would take an Avian/Tactician or building alot more barracks.
Lost the +1 def spec so you need more defense specs to reach the same mark (less chance to turtle in a sense)
For the +40 thievery damage you need the thieves for it (4rTPA in your case)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets say you have 10% Homes for the sake of improving population a bit more along with an 8% pop bonus at 1000 acres:

900 x 25 = 22500 (population from homes)
100 x 33 = 3300 (population from homes)
This equates to 25800 base max population

25800*1.08 = 27864 max population
27864 * 0.68 = 18947 military force
18947 - 4000 = 14947 military

Guess what you only have 14947 soldiers to allocate into defense specs and elites if you don't run any wizards with a 68% draft rate.

8000 * 7 = 56000 raw MO from elites
(6947 * 5) + (8000 * 2) = 50735 total defense (34735 defense when all elites are out)

[Twyla]

Just my preliminary take on the second round of proposals:

Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage

-10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW

Ummm... Gee, now they're only the teeniest bit faster on attacks than Tacticians - and Avian Tactician can just match their current base racial mod. But I can cope with that if they have something worthwhile to compensate for it.

+40% Thievery Damage?!? That's a new twist on Avian - doable, I suppose, but nowhere in line with their archetype. This certainly doesn't blow my skirt up.

Lost one point defense on their Specs and two points on their Elite (which now costs MORE)! If you're trying to turn Avians into Age 54's prey species, you've succeeded admirably.

Lose the Thievery mod, bring back 6-point Specs (Dspecs at minimum, preferably both), and give them an 8/2 Elite for that price & NW (and for the love of whatever deity you worship, give them a spell book worthy of an attacker) and Avians just might survive.

Dwarf
+10% BE
+30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use Credits to raze buildings

+50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW

This one is actually pretty good. Gaining a respectable Elite actually makes them viable again. The spell mod is an unusual perk - not traditional, but workable. Maybe nudge their BE bonus up to +15%, assuming they don't keep their current +20%.

Elves
+50% WPA
+1 Mana in War
+1 Defense Specialist Strength

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW

Might could use a smidge of polish, but quite workable as-is.

Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW

Also quite workable.

Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 Stealth
-50% thief cost

-15% Birth Rate

Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW

Spell book is a little weak. Maybe give back Vermin and Aggression.

Still needs a bit more.... Perhaps making Homes twice as effective for them (subject to DBE) will even them out.

Humans
+10% Population
+50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

Should probably rein in the Thievery and Spells bonus to +40% each. Give back GP and maybe +15% Income and you may be onto something.

Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits

-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage

Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW

I'm with many others in agreeing they should lose Reflect Magic - perhaps give it to Halfers since they need the boost. Otherwise, they look fine to me.

The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

-25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 7.5NW

Even with the increased Science penalty, these guys seem a bit much, but I'm not quite sure what needs changing. Definitely should lose GP - that's more in line for Humans than Undead.


Personalities look good although, by reducing Sage's protection from -75% to -66%, maybe they should regain a modest discount to research expenses - at least -10% Book Costs.

[khronosschoty]

I like these changes 100% better, thank you so much!!

[marksss]

ALL HAIL THE UTOPIAN GODS!

even i am impressed!

being t/m is the only way to go. and still be able to attack as well. no more waiting around for a t/m to show up cause you can do your on t/m ops. +50 halfers woo hoo!

[khronosschoty]

Very constructive post, thank you!

lol, it was just a day's time and the thread increases 5 pages long xD Actually the way I saw the races changes are like pairs, perhaps thats what the development team wanted for the next age.

Pair 1, Hybrids:
Avian - A/T
Dwarf - A/M

Pair 2, Super T/Ms:
Elf - Super Mage
Halfler - Super Thieve

Edited Pair 3, Strong Offence Attackers:
Orc - Strong Offence Attacker without oping ability and with better magic defence
Undead - Strong Offence Attacker with oping ability and without any t/m defence

Pair 4, T/Ms:
Faery - Quality T/M with bonus in Wpa Tpa and Damage
Human - Quantity T/M with bonus in Population and Damage


PS: Human actually doesn't lose his income strength totally. The +30% income is swifted towards the ToG spell which you will no longer see an inactive Human race with millions of gc, but with hundred of thousands of runes perhaps :p


Overall, you can see eventually there is no absolute way for a race to turtle and defence themselves like an unbreakable castle. Every races has its weaknesses and it is breakable.

But still, I am against the Elfs with extra manas and Nightmare spell as usual :\

[marksss]

no specs? elites only?