Lol .. so since u completely failed to win a war, get somewhere near a crown or do anything else usefull u decided to keep spitting on cj? Lol to you Sheister! Maybe time to rq again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
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Lol .. so since u completely failed to win a war, get somewhere near a crown or do anything else usefull u decided to keep spitting on cj? Lol to you Sheister! Maybe time to rq again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
You just admitted it here yourself. You say your cf moved into notice. Neither side gave notice. Emeriti gave notice first. After Emeriti gave notice, Bb then *bypassed their notice* to quick dodge farm war them. Your efforts also helped them deal break us. **** play at it's finest.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Everyone is taking advantage of current events. Some suffers and some are not like in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
As we know both warring sides need new blood (military,gold for dragons etc) hence to gain a neutral they will make promotion/offer. It is not different from real life.
For example, banks are calling me to sell new credit cards every day and they give better promotions every time i decline them. Yet they still calling me.
Offer can be tangible or intangible such as some land, some gold or backup of BB for your next war/hostile/pumps etc.
Again, despite your attempts to refute, last age emeriti did exactly what you are accusing BB of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
I point at this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
I guess i'm not following your point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Over
BB offered nothing for Pandas to join.
There was no promotion. There was no offer. There was no lower interest rate or introductory rate/fees waived.
Is there any way for me to be clearer?
This thread seems more and more like a publicity stunt. I have yet to see a step forward to a resolution of these events. All I have seen so far is a borderline insulting "proposal" coupled with further direct insults. I'm sure the leadership on both sides will know what to do and going by this thread is not one of those things.
So BB did not offer you anything as to what you are saying. But CJ did offer u a CF in good faith right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
So now you intend to take land from this GB so u end up bigger than them and then you notice them from a superior position and maybe farm them?
When did CJ offer a cf in good faith?(just want to get timing right here--not saying there wasn't any good faith on his part) Our CF was made long long long time ago and was made in the pretense that we could war on even grounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
I am still confused how people think that being in an a-war is advantageous for ANYONE. We can't pump science. We can't explore banks. We can't random for acres. We get retalled and OPed a lot.
Meanwhile, sillies (correct me if i'm wrong with these names) gets to random from aggro with orcs, they can run extreme science, they can explore banks freely, and they can pump their faeries.
Science reigns supreme.
I offered a deal to CJ, "in good faith" after we entered this awar and he rejected. So who is wanting to take advantage of who?
First, the reason FS is helping BB is because last age BB helped FS gb another kingdom who waved FS. FS owed their close friends Bb and there was no way they could say no to them if Bb gave any semblance of a reason at all. Why do you hide this and instead pretend it's some deep moral issue? The truth is you owed Bb for them helping you gb another kingdom last age.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
As for other kingdoms helping on both sides, they all have their reasons. I also disagree that "BB won the PR war by out recruiting Emeriti." BB won by having 2 of the top 3 kingdoms already in their alliance before any of this even started. They then secretly planned this for 3 weeks before then deal breaking and gb'd into war with their previously allied kingdom. Emerit's friendly kingdoms were weaker this age with coss having quit sleepy and Pewpew taking the age off. Still some kingdom's like meep's kingdom who were not friendly with Emeriti previously who had never event alked to me before this joined Emeriti to help.
All BB had to do to ensure they "won" this was to gb emeriti together with their ally pyro (2 top 3 kingdoms vs 1) and convince others to not stand up against the injustice. Their success in their deal brake and gb is more to do with their timing and the strength of their friends relative to the strength of Emeriti's friends when they choose to deal break and backstab their competition.
ermmm Taylor this? So you made a deal with CJ that you will stay out of this and then you are now part of this conflict trying to escape their notice and growing in land? CJ is staying neutral and honoring all deals and you dupe him? Lol!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne
Please man, you are supposed to represent the leadership of your KD and all you can do is propel the endless loop of accusations that this forum has become? Nobody wants to hear about this Awar anymore and I can see why.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
We never made any agreement with ANYONE to stay out of the a-war. Our initial stance was that we would not get involved--so yes, we told CJ and many others including ASF and BB that we were going to stay neutra--which we WERE going to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
However, our stance changed. I think we reserve the right to change our minds as new facts (or old facts that we did not know about because we are a new kingdom filled with players who have not played in many many ages) come to light.
How did I "dupe" CJ?
How are we trying to "escape notice?" Our provs are going to be extremely beat up after this and I presume sillies will "take advantage" of this and notice us immediately upon hearing that the a-war is over. I'm not sure how this gives us any advantageous position.
The deal that I offered cj after we entered the a-war was that in the event that SOMEHOW we come out of this thing in an advantageous position that we would allow things to be fair. He declined.
I know nothing about this proposal to flogger.
And I should add if you want a deal that directly affects my kingdom in such a way, you should talk to someone from my kingdom, not someone from another kingdom.
Flogger has already been caught in proven lies elsewhere in the threads including by Leshrak. The irony is one of his excuses for his deal break and gb is that Leshrak lied to him about knowing bour's loc YR0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
You have no game understanding if you think Pandamonium gains something out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Can we then assume that your "alliance" will not step in or attempt to help/powerplay cj's kd when the awar ends and notice is served? There's more then one way to "escape" really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
BB bouncewaved one province last age for us, cause that KD kept hitting for days into our hostile and we were tied up and didnt wanted to give them relations.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
There was no gb on them, bb razebounced third of an army from their biggest guy and they jumped in war with another ghetto and we were free to continue with our business.
If you allready take liberties with interpreting our motives, dont do the same with facts please.
We are friendly and they did us a favor, that in no way entitles them to just call on us as they see fit to do their bidding.
The fact that Pyro is BB's main ally in their so-called war against dirty play is so ironic I giggle
I thought it was quite obvious that everything I did was so that Abs alliance would continue to post and spin lies and propo (and piss off the cheaters in the process). It was quite effective, especially when the real logs were posted. When your only defense was "Coincidences" all we could do was laugh.
Theres is nothing wrong with waving a KD with no diplo ties. Eat the wave if not ready and acres are exchanged. You dont see meep crying about the 7k they lost. Man up and less QQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty Conscience
huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto_King
Spitting on Cj?Quote:
Originally Posted by scheffie
you have no idea what I am about scheffie.
Cj has been spitting at nesta and everyone who remained behind since he left. He has trolled and provoked us all since he left. He then threw a drama queen fit in these forums at the end of last age when we waved. He then used our waving as justification to circumvent a removal of his access in our private IRC and query our bot to steal intel/loc information. He then entered into a CF with us and spit at us again while doing so to claim he is being gracious.
I spit at Cj.....?
He then makes a grand stand of staying neutral while posting a god knows how many word post about how he thinks emeriti is right. He then tries to broker a "peace" after flogger posts the logs and evidence by being "neutral".
I spit at Cj?
No, Cj spits and me and everyone else in pyro because he is still a little kid who needs to try to demonstrate that he is better than Nesta. I don't know if he is or is not. He puts forth a lot of effort. He was instrumental to pyro's past success. He still can't accept that he was part of a team and respect that. He never has and he never will.
I don't spit at Cj. I am disgusted by his behavior since he left and would like him to just make a clean break and leave it alone instead of butting in and acting like a 15 year old girl in a bad high school break-up.
If Attilla the Hun were BB's ally it would not make them any less right. Emeriti is wrong and has been wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious
Taylor, your definition of exact is much different from mine. Emeriti gave Pyro notice as per their agreement and did not bypass any notice. They also did not war Simians target and did not help any kingdom deal break Simians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
That said, they did dodge Simians by warring a kingdom with whom their cf ended sooner. I don't agree with the dodging personally, but no it was not very close at all to "exactly". I'm not saying Simians were treated well, but that has nothing to do with BB.
BB claims that they didn't **** play Emeriti first, but the truth is that yes they certainly did. Bb also tries to hide that 4 Bb members read and did not respond to Bour's ingame messages asking for a cf or to talk to a Bb leader before he hit. Bb also tries to hide that Bour immediately offered all land back plus extra right from the start for a cf.
When BB rejected this, Bour then offered Bb extra gc in addition to the free land and even a fake hostile to help them get extra time to prepare for emeriti. BB tried to hide this because had they jsut accepted any one of these offers (initial cf, cf for land back plus extra, or cf for land back plus extra plus gc plus fake hostile) then bb would have been unhurt or even in stronger position relative to emeriti. This is not convenient for their narrative so they try and hide it and lie about it (see flogger) and distract from it.
Play the huh what role all you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
Lol what a waste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
bombdigie you post lies because it's all you have. I had already admitted and apologized for the content of those logs from early on and offered BB whatever they needed to make up for any harm (plus more) from the situation even though the actual harm fromt eh situation just resulted form Bb's decision to refuse to cf bour and not just take the free land and more he was offering them for a cf.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
Everyone's been guilty at some point of something bad. Pots call kettles black in this community on a weekly basis. Each day it's more of the "which one is blacker" routine. Nobody's right when everybody's wrong, eh? And now I hope that song is stuck in your head.
Hey sheister, I hope you are drunk
So he had a lil fun poking you guys over the fact that your track record has sucked since he left. Wah... He also fed you guys acres to grow and dragon gc to use in your war against Emeriti last age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
No, it absolutely makes them less right in that it undermines their claims as to what this is all abt. It also makes you both hypocrites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Our kds had lots of differences last age. Some events was worse then others. You know what i feel about Dorje and my honest opinion is that Dorje is involved in lots of **** whenever he is around in this game, maybe defend the man less and you wont lose the community respect that you always had.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
Lets try to keep this on this age events. It just gets easier because before you know it someone talk about age 50s or 40s.
I am trying my best to not be involved, the forums is all i have to read while i dont play, as much fun as it is having forum action id like to just fade out into nothingness until i some day return to this game.
GL everyone until then...
I'm genuinely confused by what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto_King
I still like cj but he can't be neutral in anything that involves pyro. Too much history there.
I like you more/hate you less now that you retired. Let me know when you're ready to come back, I currently play in a top 200 kd and could get you an invite if you pass the screening process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
No, the truth is unaltered with respect to the party that conveys it. Logic is rather immovable that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious
Q1When it is your turn to get waved on when youre not ready just man up, hand over additional acres and no QQ. Just like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor
I can agree with that. Its a rather odd thing to say though considering it has no relevance to anything I've said. Nowhere have I tried to say a truth is untrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
I agree that the truth is the truth regardless of who conveyed it, but certainly when you do the same (or worse) than what you act outraged about it indeed does make you hypocrites, so Felonious is correct. Also there is the problem that much of what your side is claiming simply is not the truth. The pats that were true have already long since been admitted and apologized for with beyond full reparations offered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
To all of the people who support and/or are involved in this aggression towards Emeriti, just realize the precedent that is being made here. This is the first dealbreak that has been made that hasn't been instantly rejected as bad. In other words, a dealbreak has now gone from "never should happen" to "well, it depends."
The conversation that happened in Emeriti's council channel is unacceptable to most rational people, but it is very common in all leadership channels to at least be discussed. The truly ethical people usually squash it before it materializes.
What this dealbreak means for the rest of the kingdoms on this server is that now a dealbreak is open to interpretation. Can we dealbreak now because a kingdom is being a bully and not accepting a CF? Can we dealbreak now because you have a yr 4 CF with a kingdom and another friendly kingdom has a yr 3.9 CF with you, and they notice you as a tactical move to prevent the other kingdom from being farmed? Can we dealbreak because a kingdom is running away? Can we dealbreak now because of a hit made into war? Can we dealbreak because a kingdom stole gold from an ally to fund their current war? The answer to all of those questions AND what Emeriti did is "no."
There should never be any circumstance in utopia where a deal is broken. Period. Final. End of statement. The moment we start opening up things like this to interpretation, all deals made are severely weakened because you never know who the next guy will be that comes along as rationalizes it like flogger has done along with his 8 kingdoms or however many he has as his army.
It's a very bad situation all together and I just want to say shame on everyone that is involved.
Actually Aqua,
Felonious did deny it several times to me. Elements were denied by you as well, then those elements clarified and recanted by you later. "Reparations" have been at the heart of the debate about the AWAR being appropriate but not the debate that Emeriti were wrong. Think of it this way, in a proceeding, we first establish guilt. The second part is where we establish sentence. Emeriti's argument is with sentencing.
The character of pyromaniacs is completely irrelevant with respect to that question or the fact that Emeriti were involved in wrongdoing. The fact that someone else has done worse in the past is not relevant in any way to your own wrongdoing. That is why her comment is completely not bearing on the conversation. Pyromaniacs never hit into someone elses EoWCF or encouraged an ally to do the same. That is the wrong which we are discussing.
Pyromaniacs was actioned by the developers for another action which is unrelated to the topic of this AWAR and as the sentence was established by the developers is beyond our review here. Pyromaniacs stole gold from a former ally last age, which is also unrelated to this AWAR and certainly of a very different character than the offense here. You (ASF) and I briefly debated the relative evils of the admittedly shady play Emeriti did to us last age. In your opinion stealing the gold from an ally was worse but on average balanced the shady play of Emeriti. In my opinion, the shady play of Emeriti last age was worse than the gold stealing and so in no way was any parity met.
However, given that all of these acts are unrelated, no hypocrisy can attach, except with respect to any holier than thou representations, which pyromaniacs has never made. However, others have pretended to be completely without fault and 100% clean. They have been and remain wrong and have yet to admit that they were wrong both in their representations of being 100% clean or their abusive comments to me. Ergo, they should remain silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
No Godly, the first question is: Given that the "deal" was originated based upon a pattern of deception and a conspiracy to use unethical play, was there a deal in fact at all? If a conspiracy can be used to encourage or force a deal which is then enforceable, what precedent does that set?
Yes. When you agree to a deal, it is a deal. You know how many deals I've forced in utopia just based on the threat of action? I got an EOA CF from Emeriti this round just by threatening to hit their banks. I also forced munk to change his province name.
Now the next time anyone makes a deal, they'll have to consider... hmm is this really a deal? Is something that I've done in previous rounds going to cause them to reneg? Are the circumstances for forcing the deal going to be scrutinized? It's a slippery slope and I'm really uncomfortable with where this is going.
There is no hiding from the fact that Emeriti's tactics with Bour were shady at best but its hardly worse than anything any kingdom has done in the last few ages. It seems to me that this gb/awar was planned long before this event but that is just my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Emeriti were wrong for what they did with Bour
BB shouldn't have deal broken
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones