stop flaming people pillz.
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stop flaming people pillz.
Calling somebody stupid is not flaming. You should stop pandering to non-whites and emotionally sensitive manchildren.
While I do that, you should go look up what flaming means.
Break!
"1. To engage in an online argument usually involving unfounded personal attacks by one or more parties."
I was neither engaging in an argument, nor was I making unfounded personal attacks. He is obviously stupid and made a stupid comment. My comment was thus justified.
I've got stuff to do man, I'm not gonna sit here and argue about whether or not you were flaming or whether or not it's ok to call someone stupid.
You were. It's not. Stop doing it.
If you want to be a jerk, do it following the rules. There's no rules about being mean in general.
That's what the ignore list is for.
I was not, it is, and I will do as I please.
There is also no reason you had to derail the thread while addressing this non issue. I suggest that your spam be deleted.
Game mechanics fixes:
Remove decreasing building efficiency, or
Remove maxes on buildings, no need for both systems
Increase draft rates, and or patriotisms strength
Increase sciences strengths, %s, and weaken sages powers to compensate
Increase birth rates basic rate outside of war
Increase post war birth rate drastically, 1000-10000%,
makes no difference to anybody cept those it should, provs under 1k peasants
Increase pop bonuses, give one to a personality or 2, plus stronger sci
Make buildings free to build post war, plus instant build time
Decrease topfeeding penalties, gains reduction, higher losses, fix this somewhat
Increase armoury % troop cost reduction/wages reduction maximum potential
Decrease base troops death rate in and oow, or increase hospitals strength
Give 1 personality or race ambush protection
Remove ambush
Or, half ambush death rates
The aim is generally to speed the game
Banned for 24 hours. Keep your trap shut next time when you get told.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
We aren't interested in game mechanic stuff, as i clearly pointed out in post one of teh suggested changes here -Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I know we don't have a lot of mathematicians in here, but the formula for DBE [ Effective % = Actual % * (1-Actual %) ] is what creates the 'cap'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
Sure, you could run 80% of a given building [ 0.8*(1-0.8) = 0.8*0.2 = 0.16 or 16% effect ] but anything over 50% (at least so far as %-based Building Effects go) is worse than just running 50%.
Draft Rates are fine as they are, though Patriotism might could use a slight tweak - not by much, however.
This would effectively eliminate Sage as a Personality. The whole point of Sage getting the nice Science bonuses is because they DON'T get the nice bonuses (such as +50% Honor Bonuses, Extra General, -50% Combat Losses, etc) that the other Personalities do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
This might actually bear some merit - mainly because the logic is sound but I'm against lowering Birth Rates during War.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
Nice idea in theory, but too readily abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
Between Cleric granting 50% lower losses, Undeads having 50% lower offensive losses, and Hospitals in general, there's no need for any additional casualty modifiers for Ambush. As-is, Ambush is about the only means to contend with an Undead Cleric's Elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
Umm cant people read?
Yes Landro, some people may made unreasonable suggestions but many of us here are with years of experience into the game, so naturally it makes no sense to tease on those who has less just because we stayed in the game longer. In the opposite we should guide them that is what they called the word a senior for, the role is to aid but not to tease.
crease posts are interesting to read, for many of his views share the same as mine :p His comment on the Rogue is the funniest one as it sounds truth in an ironic way lol. About his views on humans I do not agree on that as I do not think is as weak as he says. In another words, imo, lets say if you require an experienced player to play the Faery, then you require an elite player to play the humans.
This race has no strength in Wpa Tpa? It has no offence capability like the Avians, and his defence is moderate as well, but at least not a weak defence like Avian too right? All he has is a population boost and super damage % on spells and ops. ToG and FoK is not meant for funding dragons in warring, that is what I thought. These spells only served as a purpose for them to prepare faster or better before a war took place.
The 50% thievery damage is not given only when a war took place, you are enjoying this damage % even when you are out of war which means you can steal resources better than other races. And when you can steal better, you pump your prov faster, result in you prepare yourself better.
Imo the way how I see the Humans are been changed in such a way, is that this race is been given a huge bonus in both magic and thievery damage, but it depends on your skills, that whether you can make use of this two bonus that is given to you or not. That is how I interpret the Human race in the changes they made.
About the Orcs I does agree that it is a bit too strong. In my previous suggestion I even suggested to nerf the effectiveness of its WTs and further increase its weakness on tanking spells and ops in wars. However like one of my previous post here has mentioned, since I noticed that maybe, the Orcs are to be made as an opposite pair to compare against the Undead, so I saw a reason and logic why they made this changes, and therefore I feel not neccessary to comment on the race anymore deeper since I think they had already made their mind on it.
And midoki's post share the same view as mine about the Humans, that I do not think they are meant to be a normal race this age but rather an experimental one from the development team. What he said is not something stupid Pillz, it is his direct sense when he saw the changes at the Humans like I did.
I believe no matter how many years we had played the game, no one here is convinced enough to say they are 100% correct in everything about the changes of all races/pers every new age. I believe the persons with the most experience in the game would be the development team themselves who had done it since the beginning without missing an age at all, but threads such as this still exist to collect the opinions from all other players. So sometimes it is good to be humble a bit Piilz, nothing is absolute and it is not good to call other people stupid.
A simple way to balance Orc, UD, and Faery
Orc: 8/2 or 8/3 elite
Undead: 8/3 or 8/4 elite
Faery: 3/7 elite, lower pop penalty to -5%; or keep 3/8, but give them much harsher penalties.
Other things might need to be worked with, but it is very hard to balance the game when orc and undead elites are so good offensively, when they already have bonuses that are awesome for a heavy attacker... even moreso when the only other armies are at best 7/5 or 6/6, and the two 7/5 races have horrible elite defenses. It would also do a little bit to reduce the level of absurd offenses that some provinces are able to maintain in war.
Then again I shouldn't give the devs ideas...
nooblet, I played Fae last age with 3/7 elites and was broken only 2x (and 1 bounce). If you lower Orc and UD elite offense Fae will be completely UB
humans:
I agree with those that say human is little weak. I know +10% pop is pretty good bonus, but just comparing them to faeries who also have tree of gold they don't seem like that strong of attacker. 5/5 is pretty gimp when you can say faery can produce a 8 defense elite and 3 offensive spec=11 and best human can do is 10. I know faeries have -10% pop bonus, but they have modded wpa/tpa(compensates with pop bonus needing less thieves/wziards to achive the same wpa/tpa) numbers in addition to +30% ops damage. It will be very hard for human to achieve in my view a very strong province that is hybrid when it seems even compared to faery it seems blah which is bad considering faeries are not an attacking race! i know Turtles have a certain advantage above static defenses but still they are quite weak when it comes to other races in the role of hybrid. Perhaps something unique like stables hold 50% more horses making horses and option worthwhile in this game, or just taking them down to +5% pop and making there elite 6/5, or just giving them straight +10% science effect or something might go a long way to just sure them up. This is my opinion of course, but i just feel the +50% damage is powerful but not if you just cant produce the numbers to make it a successful hybrid. +50% damage just doesnt help much if you fail your ops :)
avians:
Maybe slightly weak. Perhaps just small boost. I like the idea of making them less ambush-able but with their lower attack gains I don't see it as that strong of a boost. I was thinking perhaps more along the lines of giving them Invisibility spell might help some to go along with thief op bonus and perhaps 10% reduction in cost of thieves.
Sage:
-5% science cost or small amount of books per acre. Just a little to add something to this. Very hard to make sciences alot strong without any help in adding books, tho I suppose if you in kingdom that wins wars you can be strong sage, but it requires kingdom winning wars or not warring..poor chaps who war and loss as sage are most penalized personality in game. Perhaps something intresting like sage even in loss war "learns from thier" losses and gains 20bpa across the board. Couldnt be very strong or this would be abused I suppose.
I like everything else pretty much and the direction things are going, mechanics and racial changes. I always feel that to make the game more interesting you should always make races more unique with more bonus and do a few as possible negatives to each race. For example balance the races by giving them all buffs that balance out instead of alot of penalties that balance out and that's how I see the direction is going more, so good job. I know sometimes if just becomes necessary for there to be negatives to balance, but make it last case scenario.( ie:like dwarfs not being able to accelerate construct, this makes sense as not to overpower their ability to free building) Since it is fairly radical changes hard to put a exact balance on the numbers in my mind.
Disclaimer:(lol)My opinion is posted here and I know people will disagree :) but it just writing how I look at races and whether I would choose to play that race/person or not and why. Cheers~
You give human all these T/M bonuses but they will never get the numbers to make use. +10% pop gives a bit of compensation, but really human should get something else. Maybe raising elites to 6/5 would even it out a bit. Perhaps a NW advantage, instead? If you left the elite at 5/5 with +10% pop you could change the NW value of the elite to maybe 4. Giving them a usable edge again.
At first I liked the +50% horses idea mentioned above. But I feel the most negative downside to horses is the NW influx. I would support this idea (instead of the above NW idea) if it was increased horse capacity AND horses have no net worth value. Maybe also add horse capacity to another build for human as well, homes hold 60 horses by default. Either way, giving human enough horses for every attack, without adding NW to their already bloated stack and minimising build % needed would compensate their low troop figures.
MistyM: a offensive AND defensive elite has a clear advantage over a defensive or offensive only elite. To have the option to send only what you need maximising defense for every attack, coupled with the turtling option by just not attacking is a massive advantage. To just add elite values up and have that as your reasoning of imbalance is not very effective.
I think it is a good idea to give a race potential hybrid qualities but making it very difficult to play. A high risk play style that would be attractive to the more experienced players. This is how it should be. I just think hu are a bit too low atm, but just a bit.
Buffing Rogue
I thought rogue could use a buff, but I was unsure on what to give them. You could give them more +damage or thievery efficiency but there already is a lot of those going around. Instead I was thinking of:
1. Increasing maximum possible damage (Max % of Total) by ops by X% (perhaps 10%) this would work well with + damage done. (If the normal max is 10% rogues would be 11%)
or
2. Increase the thievery ops war bonus (is 25% now). Please note that the maximum possible damage (Max % of Total) isn't the same in war and outside of war for some ops.
Edit: See Thievery Yield (wiki) on war bonus.
or
3. Removing or lowering % lost resources on ops. (stealing food, gold, horses and kidnap)
After reading what a lot of others have had to say (and weighing things accordingly), here's what I believe to be an equitable balance:
The Races
Since the Devs are aiming towards a bit more hybridization, I worked towards making Age 54's Avians the Thievery counterparts of Age 53's Elves. Like Elves, they retain their 6-point Defense Specialists - freeing up a bit of room needed for Thieves.Quote:
Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% Thievery Damage
+1 Defense Specialist Strength
- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables
Spell book: Town Watch, Fanaticism, War Spoils (Removed Vermin)
Elite: 8/3, 800gc, 7.0NW
Also, their Elite has been revised comparable to an Elf. Whereas an Age 53 Elf Lord is 7/3, 600gc, and 6NW - 8/3 and 6.6 NW when mounted - the Avian would be 8/3 (same) and 7.0NW (vs 6.6NW) but 200gc more expensive to compensate.
While I still disagree with reducing Avian's attack time bonus - particularly by that much - such a reduction would be a tolerable trade-off with the Thievery mod and revised Elite.
Apart from the -25% TpA mod, Age 53's Dwarf wasn't bad. Adding the Magic mod and improving the offense of their Elite (which the Devs already did) is plenty in that department. Only change needed is a slight tweak to the NW of their Elite.Quote:
Dwarf
+ 20% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings
+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available
Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/4, 750gc, 6.25NW
If Elves are to remain viable as A/Ms, they need to retain their Age 53 Elite. Apart from that, a slight tweak to their Spell Book is all that is needed.Quote:
Elves
+50% Magic Effectiveness (WpA)
+1 Mana Regen in War
+1 Defense Specialist Strength
Spellbook: Clearsight, Pitfalls, Reflect Magic, Amnesia, Nightmare (Removed Mage's Fury)
Elite: 7/3, 600gc, 6NW
So far as I'm concerned, the Devs nailed this one - nothing I can think to change on it.Quote:
Faery
+30% damage on Spells and Ops
+30% WPA and TPA
-10% Population
-2 Offensive Specialist Strength
Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW
Halfers were moderately well this Age though, with losing the Population and Recon bonuses, they need something to compensate. Making Homes more effective for them (16 extra pop vs 8) offers similar increases while doing so at a price. They keep Aggression (for their 3/1 Soldier tactic) and also gave them Mystic Aura - appropriate for the jammy lil buggers and a modest boost.Quote:
Halflings
+50% Thievery Effectiveness (TpA)
+1 stealth
-50% thief cost
Homes are twice as effective (BR subject to DBE)
-25% Birth Rate
Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch, Mystic Aura, Aggression
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 550gc, 5.75NW
At a bit of a loss where Humans are concerned, as they now have no clear-cut role - then again, one of their classic hallmarks is versatility. Increasing their Elites to 6/6, combined with their Population bonus, grants them that flexibility.Quote:
Humans
+10% Population
+40% damage on Spells and Ops
Spellbook: Greater Protection, Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 6/6, 700gc, 6.75NW
Removed Reflect Magic, as it makes no sense for any Race which does not have a propensity for magic. War Spoils, however, is an appropriate replacement.Quote:
Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits
-50% damage on Spells and Ops
Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, War Spoils (Removed Reflect Magic)
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.5NW
Town Watch is simply not an appropriate spell for Undead - as with Orcs, replaced with War Spoils.Quote:
The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed
- 25% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Greater Protection, War Spoils, Animate Dead, Chastity (Removed Town Watch)
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 8.0NW
The Personalities
All of these are near-perfect as presented, so... Yeah, here they are - again. :p Only change made was adding Mage's Fury to Mystic, where it rightly belongs.Quote:
The Merchant
+30% Income
-50% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks
Immunity to all Income Penalties (Riots, Plagues, etc.)
The Sage
+ 25% Science effectiveness
-66% Losses on Learn Attacks
Immune to The Plague
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are twice as effective (subject to DBE)
The Mystic
Access to Meteor Showers and Mage's Fury
All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective
+50% Spell Duration (For Duration Spells Only)
+1 Mana regen in War
The Warrior
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range
The Tactician
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage (in war)
The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Animate Dead spell always active
This one really drew my attention in an odd direction...Quote:
The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft expenses
Immune to Dragons
Units sent to fight Dragons cause 1 additional damage each
War Heroes are, well, heroes! They're famous (or infamous), so the +50% Honor Effects is quite suitable. As people are more eager to join a War Hero in their various enterprises, the decreased expenses for drafting made sense as well.
Decreased training times, however, didn't make sense. If anything, they'd be liable to increase due to the extra time needed to weed out the fanboys who got in over their heads.
And then it hit me... "Why do we need to cower in the presence of a Dragon?!? OUR leader is a great WAR HERO!!" That courage also extends to the troops sent to kamikaze against Dragons - they're actually EAGER to die in the service of a War Hero, each troop inflicting 1 extra point of damage against an enemy Dragon.
Well, there's my nickel for this go-round...
Fix Ambush its retarded that you can ambush an ambush and that you ambush hits on other people before you ambush your hit fix it !!!
this has been discussed in length and will never happen as it is pure abuse as its finest. every kd must run this persona to aid it soldiers which kill 2 points instead of 1, hey presto dragon costs half as much to kill, send us the next one plz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twyla
Why is there anything wrong with this mechanic lad?Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk
We need to discuss how to balance rogue/WH and avian almost exclusively. Not stuff that is working fine and will continue to do so next age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midoki
let me find your human a/t/m after being chained in a war next age, and double tap learn farm you for rest of age while ur troops are all home ok? Sage will be NO PROTECTION for the 5k bpa you will need to be competent at even 1 of these roles, and that 5k bpa will be 58 nwpa without counting the extra pop you will have. Yeah here's to 300 nwpa.
1k acres with modest 100 opa and fairly low 250 nwpa based on ur expectations is 250k nw
250k nw orc is 1300 acres at 150 opa
human off:100k
orc off: 195k
human 35 dpa:35k
orc 35 dpa: 45.5k
orc can in this situation 5tap you and you can 1tap and 2-3 ambush. and add to that you get to fb ur own pezzies with RM. Gonna be a fun fight no?
hit the like button! reply with quote that is. hah:D
Avian 8/6 armies with -20% attack time AND War Spoils?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twyla
Orcs with War Spoils?
Stop suggesting stuff please. /facepalm
You do realize, of course, just how quickly 20 times your NW in Aid is going to wreck your Trade Balance, don't you? Once taxes are factored in, it would take 2-3 times as many Soldiers for the War Hero to kill the Dragon as it would had the individual Provinces just sent the Soldiers themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by crease
Or perhaps you mean if most EVERY Province in a Kingdom was a War Hero so that they could send massive hordes of Soldiers into the fray as Utopia-brand Dragon Chow... Which would be kind of awesome, excepting for the fact that they pass up bonuses from other Personalities that are actually of some use in situations other than killing Dragons.
lol missed that one^^ now you stole my chance to troll!Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twyla
please do note, increased pop and ToG.... its not hard to aid out 100x ur nw between wars, as for the thought of it being either 1 prov or 25 that use this there's obviously a moderation, its not black and white 1 or 25 rofl.
Yet Undead Tactician with 9/5 armies (10/5 if mounted), -15% Attack Time, War Spoils, spreads/immune to Plague, no food needed, free Elites, and -50% offensive losses is weak by comparison?Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
And, just for the record, War Spoils can be as much bane as blessing. Sure, you get the land sooner, but your armies can still be Ambushed and your NWpA is grossly deflated, as are your WpA and TpA. By not using War Spoils, you at least have the defense values from your Elites to help defend your new lands - and more time to build up other protections as well.
Who the frack mounts their 9/5 armies? And yes, that undead is pure crap in comparison to your avian and WS orcs. You obviously have no clue.
undead doesn't get tact by default, and neither did you compare avian tact with undead tact. avian gets 25% more hits per time (1/0.8) wheresas undead has LESS offense than an avian with 8 point off leet and 6 pt dspec. Calc all that imba and come back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twyla
nvm i will do it for you:
pop on both:
assume 12% pop sci on avian, 9% on the undead. (undead -25% eff means sci on avian is 1.33x)
pop: (assuming no homes or honour)
undead = 27
avian = 28
35 dpa:30raw with wages+mp
avian ----5 dspec/acre
undead -6 dspec/acre
assume undead has 19 mpa avian has 20, both with 2 raw tpa
avian gets 13 epa (20 - (5+2)) 71% draft
undead gets 11epa (19 - (6+2)) 70% draft
13*8=104 raw opa
11*9=99raw opa, presto avian gets 25% more hits and more offence? Have fun with ur undead k?
if there is ever some honour or a prov with REAL science on the table then this imba widens significantly
We need to enforce a minimum of 100 IQ to post in here. Some of you must have suffered brain damage at some point in your life based on what i'm reading. I suggest scheduling an appointment with a neurologist, very obvious signs of frontal lobe impairment in these posts.
hmm, realest posted something i agree with, maybe i should fill that last spot in his kd while i can still stand the sight of him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
Baiting me aint you, for a start it hasn't been decided what race(s) we'll be having in our kd, it's stupid to do so before the offical changes. I highlighted that if they was a bank and as such larger than the attackers in opp kd then there leets allow for multi-razing smaller ppl or end of chain targets to help reduce max pop futher still, there magic effectivness also helps when opping lower NW. You can compare human and orc at the same acres all you want, it is a look at a potentally different way of playing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by crease
So you can stop your bravado, I even said at the end that they do not look like a attacking race. If the sug of there leets being only 5NW is done then there would be no difference in them being 100% leet or def specs, playing as a TM Bank this wouldn't matter as much, still not NW effecient as Faes leets NW for def points and wont be as strong in the W/TPA area as well but they have there potential still.
you were suggesting that it would be good when chained, sure this i dont mind agreeing with, but it wont be chained imo. It is a weak prov with good econ, couple fbs from an elf or dwarf or a nap or 2 and its now a weak prov with nothing going for it, not even a hit wasted.
Banking is a different story to what you were suggesting entirely, and i will allow you to believe you are correct that it will do fairly as such. Since i have not banked nor studied strategies for doing so i agree that human/merch is probably the choice for banks
Okay.... Let's assume 120 OpA and 50 DpA (raw figures, DpA w/Elites away). For now, we'll disregard Wages, TGs, Forts, etc since that's available to everyone.
Undead needs 13.33 Elites and 10 Dspecs per acre (23.33 total) to attain these figures, totaling 156.66 NWpA for raw military. Avians would need 15 Elites and 8.33 Dspecs per acre (23.33 total) for the same figures, totaling 155 NWpA. Just for the record let's also figure for Orcs, also needing 13.33 Elites and 10 Dspecs per acre (23.33 total) for 150 NWpA.
All three have the same raw OP and DP, same number of troops needed to attain these figures, and are pretty damned close in NWpA. Undead have -50% Offensive Losses, Avians have -20% Attack Times, and Orcs have +20% Gains.
So where is the imbalance you speak of?
i just displayed the 2 provinces you described in ur proposed changes on the alst page, please refer back to it, post #269 if you are having trouble. Avian has MORE pop than an undead hence bigger army. Find me an undead that can run 23.33 apa and tpa wpa and pezz/a to run a province that has more than 60% BE and is capable of preventing an avian nsing or fbing you to sht?
Coupled with that, the provs you describe have the same army, avian STILL gets 25% more uniques.
Your math is so flawed I won't even bother to explain. Refer to Realest's post.
One other thing to factor into your equations: Food.Quote:
Originally Posted by crease
Though it can vary a lot depending on how well built Sciences are, Undead can use the 7.5% Farms that Avian needs for Homes instead for exactly the same population - in spite of the penalty to Housing Science. Also, since Avian needs Food Science and Undead does not, Undead can spend those extra Books in Housing for even more population... Or War for extra gains (where Avians need 120 BpA in War Science just to offset their Gains penalty)...
Starting to become a bit clearer now?
PS - Undead STILL have 50% lower offensive losses, 11% higher gains, and 14.29% fewer Sciences to divide their Books amongst.
FOR ANYONE THAT IS NOT TWYLA: please ignore, this is regarding his own proposed changes and is irrelevant to rev 2 changes.
lol you just made a point about food.... since when was food even a point for undead. Avian has 33% more income tools and housing science numbers(assuming equal books, which is a joke, avian will have alot more)... 7.5% land is nothing.
plague and -50% off losses are why you pick undead, not no food req. But plague can be obtained from 2 undead/tacts attacking at the same rate as avian/cleric but undead needs a few rax to keep up, if avian has 15% rax then undead/tact is probably going to need 25-30% rax with lower BE from lower sci and fewer pezzies to get the same bonus from rax and the 5% extra they need to match avian base. Along with that, undead doesnt even have lower losses on defence?
edit refresh wars are fun!
you suggest that avian is going to spend 1/6 of its books into food. This amazes me lol. i have 100 bpa in food giving me 120% food production atm, if you want me to do this on my avian then i guess ill only need 4.5% farms! Pity i already answered the point about -50% losses in my last refresh:(
lets compare +11% gains to +25% uniques shall we?:D
one more note: avian gets +25% learns oow, compared to undeads -25% science fx and 11% gains, yup ud sci is going to be close to avian at all
tl:dr you describe an undead that can't exist vs an avian that can(23.33 apa)* and you cant explain how the other uses of the race outweigh the benefits of speed as they don't.
*(avian sage only, undead tact would be 86% draft for jokes!(94% draft with 2 raw tpa))
play nice guys...
Endgame, when Sciences become a much larger factor in the equation (and under static conditions), Avians would have the edge over Undead - as would any non-Undead Race. But once the dynamics come into play, they're fairly even.
Assuming an Avian Cleric and Undead Tactician start trading blows yes, the Avian will have the edge starting out, but it doesn't take long before the balance shifts - the difference in Gains takes its toll, the Undead's Animate Dead spell preserves troops to retrain while the Avian relies on an expensive trickle of Draftees to try to keep Military going - which the Undead can put a stop to by maintaining Chastity. Won't take long (maybe 3 days tops - even less if the Avian gets Plagued) before the Avian is dead in the water and the Undead feasts upon the corpse.