#1 vs#2 honor kds

"i still applaud you for your creativity in your storytelling. impressive but there's room for improvement."

Given that english is not my native language, I guess there really is room for improvement; as for "i don't even know how that zombie kd can come up with such story", you have to admit that Bishop did not erased your ww based on a "such story" invented by "a zombie kd", I think we can both assume he did that BASED ON FACTS. That I'm saying as in regard to your comment that we "all like creativity". I think it's a word you really like, since it pops every other post.

While I still wait for any kind or explanation of the non-fictional fact that you were proven cheats by the admin, (since that pathetic try from above is anything BUT an explanation), I'll try and practice my english skills. I don't want to let down people in here, especially those who cheer me.

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Originally Posted by jacko

"i still applaud you for your creativity in your storytelling. impressive but there's room for improvement."

Given that english is not my native language, I guess there really is room for improvement; as for "i don't even know how that zombie kd can come up with such story", you have to admit that Bishop did not erased your ww based on a "such story" invented by "a zombie kd", I think we can both assume he did that BASED ON FACTS. That I'm saying as in regard to your comment that we "all like creativity". I think it's a word you really like, since it pops every other post.

While I still wait for any kind or explanation of the non-fictional fact that you were proven cheats by the admin, (since that pathetic try from above is anything BUT an explanation), I'll try and practice my english skills. I don't want to let down people in here, especially those who cheer me.

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Mad props to you for your grasp of the English language as a non native speaker.

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Originally Posted by jacko

"i still applaud you for your creativity in your storytelling. impressive but there's room for improvement."

Given that english is not my native language, I guess there really is room for improvement; as for "i don't even know how that zombie kd can come up with such story", you have to admit that Bishop did not erased your ww based on a "such story" invented by "a zombie kd", I think we can both assume he did that BASED ON FACTS. That I'm saying as in regard to your comment that we "all like creativity". I think it's a word you really like, since it pops every other post.

While I still wait for any kind or explanation of the non-fictional fact that you were proven cheats by the admin, (since that pathetic try from above is anything BUT an explanation), I'll try and practice my english skills. I don't want to let down people in here, especially those who cheer me.

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Bro, with all due respect I never mention anything about your English or my English or anyone's English

I'm just saying that your story sounds farfetched and it needs some realistic feel to sound believable.

I've already said my piece in that matter, it's not like you going to choose to believe me, you are free to choose whatever you like to believe.

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Originally Posted by Band of Horses

Mad props to you for your grasp of the English language as a non native speaker.

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These kids these days, where do they get their engarish from?

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Originally Posted by jacko

they have some multi's in them, in order to get us the wins". Are these real enough for your like ?

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Can anyone in Sanctus speak to whether or not TBB had a multi in your KD when you withdrew from them at min time?

Brb, popcorn is running low.

"I'm just saying that your story sounds farfetched and it needs some realistic feel to sound believable.

I've already said my piece in that matter, it's not like you going to choose to believe me, you are free to choose whatever you like to believe."


That takes us to the conclusion that was obvious all along, but I didn't wanted to jump right at it. And that conclusion, my friends, is that we have to choose between A) or B)

A) if sarcasm is right, then obviously Bishop is wrong; if he is wrong, then he had done a great injustice and after that he ran and hid behind his all-powerful admin status.
B) if sarcasm is wrong and Bishop right, then TBB are cheats and they've been punished accordingly

Well, let's toss a coin here, hmmmmmmm ..... really, really, hard choice .... hmmmm, should I believe an user posting on forums about how we're "creative in storytelling" or should I believe the admin of the game, who watches over and takes action when it's the case ..... Ok, I have to admit : for me, it's not really that hard. I choose to believe the admin, imagining that he had REAL, POSITIVE FACTS THAT YOU GUYS CHEATED. Otherwise, I would be forced to admit that he himself is a cheat, thus making this whole game a cheat. I would have to stop playing it, then.

Since I don't want to do that, I choose to believe the admin, not the user(s) defending with non-arguments. EZ.

LE : tell me this, sarcasm : in your opinion, is Bishop a cheat ? I mean did he punished you guys for nothing at all, was he wrong all the way ? Y or N.
Since this is really a simple question, I expect a simple answer from you. Come one, it's not that hard. Was Bishop right punishing you or was he wrong ?

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Typical FS play, not even surprised: screw over a "warring ghetto" (in their terminilogy) to obtain favours for future ages. Now next age if FS is in a bad spot theyll call on CR to bail them out with a double-hostile and so the chain of ****-powerplay that FS has showcased over the ages continues.

CR is reaching new levels of patheticness. I hope for you Mango comes back next age or we'll have to start calling you "warring tier". Of course you can also join the Kebab-tier with your new friends.

TBB knows our stance on this issue. As soon as we interfere the MAP group will use it as an excuse to GB both of us. Its better thus for both us and TBB if we stay out.

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I like your MAP angle, I must admit. It is clear to me you needed new bogyman to wave infront of tools that buy into your bs, now that your standard feyr play rant became obsolete.
It fascinates me how you work on introducing this new "threat" into people's mind.

I really do admire your people skills.
I find it fascinating that you, self proclaimed cheater, consistently manage to convince people to ****play and cheat in order to push your own agenda at their expense.
And all you have to work with are some vague "everybody does it" argument.

Even if I despise your ingame etics and behavior, I do hope you manage to translate your online skills to RL and profit from it, alltho hopefully w/o this sociopath manipulative underlining.

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Originally Posted by jacko

"I'm just saying that your story sounds farfetched and it needs some realistic feel to sound believable.

I've already said my piece in that matter, it's not like you going to choose to believe me, you are free to choose whatever you like to believe."


That takes us to the conclusion that was obvious all along, but I didn't wanted to jump right at it. And that conclusion, my friends, is that we have to choose between A) or B)

A) if sarcasm is right, then obviously Bishop is wrong; if he is wrong, then he had done a great injustice and after that he ran and hid behind his all-powerful admin status.
B) if sarcasm is wrong and Bishop right, then TBB are cheats and they've been punished accordingly

Well, let's toss a coin here, hmmmmmmm ..... really, really, hard choice .... hmmmm, should I believe an user posting on forums about how we're "creative in storytelling" or should I believe the admin of the game, who watches over and takes action when it's the case ..... Ok, I have to admit : for me, it's not really that hard. I choose to believe the admin, imagining that he had REAL, POSITIVE FACTS THAT YOU GUYS CHEATED. Otherwise, I would be forced to admit that he himself is a cheat, thus making this all game a cheat. I would have to stop playing it, then.

Since I don't want to do that, I choose to believe the admin, not the user(s) defending with non-arguments. EZ.

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seriously, you can believe whatever you like and delete your prov if you want, it matters little to me.

like I said, I'd be very impressed if anyone in this server could plant a multi in a SPECIFIC KD just to get War Win.

and now you are assuming that we plant multi in other 6 kd to get war wins.

just imagine and let that sink in.

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Originally Posted by citadela01

I like your MAP angle, I must admit. It is clear to me you needed new bogyman to wave infront of tools that buy into your bs, now that your standard feyr play rant became obsolete.
It fascinates me how you work on introducing this new "threat" into people's mind.

I really do admire your people skills.
I find it fascinating that you, self proclaimed cheater, consistently manage to convince people to ****play and cheat in order to push your own agenda at their expense.
And all you have to work with are some vague "everybody does it" argument.

Even if I despise your ingame etics and behavior, I do hope you manage to translate your online skills to RL and profit from it, alltho hopefully w/o this sociopath manipulative underlining.

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anyone that has met me IRL knows that Im far from my uto personality. This is a game after all, yet a game we want to do well at all of us. Currently the MAP Alliance is working against the interest of the majority of players playing this game. Examples are TBB, but also Ascension a few weeks ago.

At the same time Im also adding a layer of complexity to your game, so you should be happy I manage to keep lively a dying game. Hate/revenge feelings make people stick around as much as love! I dont think Ive ever been vague in here. Ive given concrete examples of the KDs involved having partaken in comparable actions.

As for an agenda, there is none but parity. If the MAP alliance would allow all of the competing server to be part of their group, it would go a long to solving many of the grudges. All we as Sparta ever wanted was to have a fair shot in a level playing field. the playing field has been skewed through age-long links which results in unequal CF negotiations, bands of supporter-KDs FSUing competition and unequal help in case of ****play/DBs (we received close to none when Pandas DBed us).

Good evening cita <3

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

anyone that has met me IRL knows that Im far from my uto personality. This is a game after all, yet a game we want to do well at all of us. Currently the MAP Alliance is working against the interest of the majority of players playing this game. Examples are TBB, but also Ascension a few weeks ago.

At the same time Im also adding a layer of complexity to your game, so you should be happy I manage to keep lively a dying game. Hate/revenge feelings make people stick around as much as love! I dont think Ive ever been vague in here. Ive given concrete examples of the KDs involved having partaken in comparable actions.

As for an agenda, there is none but parity. If the MAP alliance would allow all of the competing server to be part of their group, it would go a long to solving many of the grudges. All we as Sparta ever wanted was to have a fair shot in a level playing field. the playing field has been skewed through age-long links which results in unequal CF negotiations, bands of supporter-KDs FSUing competition and unequal help in case of ****play/DBs (we received close to none when Pandas DBed us).

Good evening cita <3

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And is it in the best interests of the game to have butthurt KDs likes yours who get mad because their age is over and instead of even trying to fight for #1 decide to try to chart-shape by feeding hundreds of millions of gold into conflicts?

@sarcasm :

Well, your continual refusing of giving a straight answer to such basic question tells pretty much everything. I stop here, I have better things to waste my time with.
GL with that "I'm-in-denial-but-I-hope-I'll-win-discussions-if-I-just-stick-to-my-story,-even-without-arguments" attitude; as one guy said it already to someone else in here, I hope it actually does anything constructive for you in RL, 'cause in here it doesn't do you any good. It just shows how impossible is for you to accept defeat.

PS : I have no real reason to delete my account, you failed pretty bad to give me a valid one. Besides, I hope I'll get the chance to feed on some of you guys in TBB, later this age. Is not like you wouldn't deserve something like that ...

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

anyone that has met me IRL knows that Im far from my uto personality. This is a game after all, yet a game we want to do well at all of us. Currently the MAP Alliance is working against the interest of the majority of players playing this game. Examples are TBB, but also Ascension a few weeks ago.

At the same time Im also adding a layer of complexity to your game, so you should be happy I manage to keep lively a dying game. Hate/revenge feelings make people stick around as much as love! I dont think Ive ever been vague in here. Ive given concrete examples of the KDs involved having partaken in comparable actions.

As for an agenda, there is none but parity. If the MAP alliance would allow all of the competing server to be part of their group, it would go a long to solving many of the grudges. All we as Sparta ever wanted was to have a fair shot in a level playing field. the playing field has been skewed through age-long links which results in unequal CF negotiations, bands of supporter-KDs FSUing competition and unequal help in case of ****play/DBs (we received close to none when Pandas DBed us).

Good evening cita <3

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Its good to hear your RL persona is different from uto one, patronizing aspect aside, that is a good thing.

You give yourself too much credit, as far as player base goes you do far more damage than good imo.

There is no alliance, other than the one you are working so hard on making with Sanctus and satelites. If you can manage to convince people about existence of this new, ugly entity in which known enemies work side by side, than props to you.

You are not looking for a fair shot and even playing field. You are looking for an unfair advantage like so many before you.
I see you as product of your enviroment, you were introduced to the game of cheating and abusing by people who looked to profit on you. You simply spiraled out of control with it.

I understand this may seem as something new and revolutionary to you, but its really not. Its just rehashed case of many people who went down the same pattern of behavior before you, some with remarkable success.

In reality the only thing that makes you pop out from previous "barts" is your desire for spotlight and presence in forums.
Catch22 is that same exposure brings unwanted attention, if you played silent game you could get away with much more, and make much fewer enemies along the way.

In the end I am just sorry you manage to drag other people to your level, like you did with tbb and jesters this age.
Its getting harder for the rest of us to just play normal utopia.

Good evening to you too.

edit:
Ill make a wild guess here.
It intrigues me how you silently introduced MAP phrase as some entity existing in the game, and than expanded it to a phrase MAP Alliance in your last post. What is your motivation for this I wonder ?

I am going to speculate there are talks going on behind curtain about creating alliance of Sparta/Sanctus and some third party kingdoms. Under a premise of needing a leverage to "defend" against this suposed entity.
Just food for thought for random reader.

Whaaaat ? who's MAP alliance? thought we were angry at Feyrplay? (from what i understand feyrplay is no more anyway, so no need for alliances).

Im at a loss can someone fill me in, who's what and which KDs is in this alliance?

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

These kids these days, where do they get their engarish from?

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Maybe I got it in the same place a buddy of yours (and mine), Kostas, got it; Greece. Or maybe it's another country, not very far from this one :P

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Originally Posted by citadela01

\
I am going to speculate there are talks going on behind curtain about creating alliance of Sparta/Sanctus and some third party kingdoms. Under a premise of needing a leverage to "defend" against this suposed entity.
Just food for thought for random reader.

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I wonder about that as well. *grabs popcorn*

People always say the game is too small for this or that. I recommend throwing a superball as hard as you can in the bathroom. Tell me that's not fun. Shut the door; safety first.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

I recommend throwing a superball as hard as you can in the bathroom. Tell me that's not fun.

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That's not fun.

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Quote Originally Posted by jacko View Post
they have some multi's in them, in order to get us the wins". Are these real enough for your like ?

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Can anyone in Sanctus speak to whether or not TBB had a multi in your KD when you withdrew from them at min time?

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No : )

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...pcorn-Soda.gif

Had to get more and make sure it doesn't run out I can't miss the show.

Saying that Bart corrupted Jesters and TBB is giving him far too much credit. They were so all along, Bart simply utilized them for his own agenda.

The funny thing is that in previous ages the signs were all there. Countless complaints about foul play that were shrugged off by the very same people that are now up in arms about it. The issues isn't a new one. The only thing that changed is the target they chose.

@sarcasm...if you don't think planting a player in a specific kingdom is possible, you missed a lot. It can and has been done multiple times.
Also, if you were really all about warring and didn't care about crowns there would be no need for financial aid and all that.

as far as acres for gold trades...they come in different packages, such as a kingdom wanting to regulate their size and asking for a land drop and the hitting kingdom offers gc in return. Or a kingdom demands acres for a cf and offers gc in return,,,and then there is the case where gold is offered to a kingdom in order to chart shape...I am sure there are more versions and while some are dirty others are not quite as bad. And yes , there are still kingdoms that do not do any sort of land for gold trades, or land for services or gold for services deals.

Regardless what value, may we have an update of the current situation?
I still see TBB slightly bigger than CR in NW and at same acreage. So means more troops?
Then what the is the big deal? Just war again?

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

Saying that Bart corrupted Jesters and TBB is giving him far too much credit. They were so all along, Bart simply utilized them for his own agenda.

The funny thing is that in previous ages the signs were all there. Countless complaints about foul play that were shrugged off by the very same people that are now up in arms about it. The issues isn't a new one. The only thing that changed is the target they chose.

@sarcasm...if you don't think planting a player in a specific kingdom is possible, you missed a lot. It can and has been done multiple times.
Also, if you were really all about warring and didn't care about crowns there would be no need for financial aid and all that.

as far as acres for gold trades...they come in different packages, such as a kingdom wanting to regulate their size and asking for a land drop and the hitting kingdom offers gc in return. Or a kingdom demands acres for a cf and offers gc in return,,,and then there is the case where gold is offered to a kingdom in order to chart shape...I am sure there are more versions and while some are dirty others are not quite as bad. And yes , there are still kingdoms that do not do any sort of land for gold trades, or land for services or gold for services deals.

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1. I never utilized either. They very much made their own decisions. They came to me for gc and they got it. Obviously due to CR's foul play vs Sparta we were a bit more generous.
2. They don't come in different packages. Gc is given, land is taken. Whatever the reason/amount/whatever does not and should not matter.
3. Good KDs that win a lot of wars always get more stick from others. My personal experience with TBB/Jesters has always been good through the ages even when we were warring tier. And that is saying something because warring-tier KDs are notorious for breaking wardeals and build advantages in other shady ways.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

1. I never utilized either. They very much made their own decisions. They came to me for gc and they got it. Obviously due to CR's foul play vs Sparta we were a bit more generous.
2. They don't come in different packages. Gc is given, land is taken. Whatever the reason/amount/whatever does not and should not matter.
3. Good KDs that win a lot of wars always get more stick from others. My personal experience with TBB/Jesters has always been good through the ages even when we were warring tier. And that is saying something because warring-tier KDs are notorious for breaking wardeals and build advantages in other shady ways.

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Can't wait for people to jump at Bart's comment #3 and say "we take it with a grain of salt".
Popcorn and peanuts ready!

@citadela
I may have a number of questions for you so bear with me. Honest answers would be greatly appreciated.
It was I who started calling it the MAP Group and the MAP Consortium, Bartman simply adapted the term, I was born in it, molded by it. If the things referred to are make-belief why on Earth do you think Spartans are not helping with the double hostile taking place? Also, the double hostile seems well executed and planned, since it's technically not a double hostile until TBB spring the trap set by you, like Francis so readily explains and they are just "making it worse" by even talking about it. It's mere hits trading and some random GC/horses stealing, at least this is the strategy you tackle the justification of your actions on these boards with this time. So tell me again, is this another example of the MAP Consortium NOT being at work?
Finally, since when have you become blind to such things and are you really OK with the double hostile taking place? Is this really where you want FS to go? I'm not judging, I'm asking, I've always thought of you as something other than that so just make things clear once and for all for me, do me this one small favor even though you owe me none.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Jesters has always been good through the ages even when we were warring tier.

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lol?
Oh, missed the personal experience part, now I get it.

FS hit TBB and gave meter when TBB had no meter with any other kd in the game. TBB entered a double hostile situation because they panicked and couldn't close out open relations with FS before they gave the button to CR.

How is this in any way shape or form about FS or CR?

These are the technicalities they will justify this with, it's the FS MO, they played it well this time, much better than those spectacles with Pyro, mad props. Well, to be fair, TBB helped quite a bit, swallowing the bait whole.

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Originally Posted by maccar86

FS hit TBB and gave meter when TBB had no meter with any other kd in the game. TBB entered a double hostile situation because they panicked and couldn't close out open relations with FS before they gave the button to CR.

How is this in any way shape or form about FS or CR?

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My understanding...
FS hit TBB-Legal
TBB wave CR without closing relations-Legal but foolish as FS is still entitled to continue hitting TBB
TBB war CR-Legal
FS stop hit when CR and TBB in war-Legal

So what is TBB b*tching about?

CR hit them first and have stolen from them. FS interfered here, obviously they will say unaware of the situation, but let's be honest, this was planned from the start. It doesn't actually matter what you say or believe either. What matters is, Spartans are not strong enough to combat the MAP Consortium, that's what it comes down to. We can Uto lawyer and argue here all we want, it will not change a thing.

I see this more as a personal eyeopener as to what FS actually is. No matter the situation they could always pull out from hitting a KD that has done nothing to them and is otherwise engaged - the warring KD that they are they should be looking for wars not to double team someone, but they choose not to, they are part of the MAP Group and are just acting on the agreement they signed, the agreement that controls the server.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

These are the technicalities they will justify this with, it's the FS MO, they played it well this time, much better than those spectacles with Pyro, mad props. Well, to be fair, TBB helped quite a bit, swallowing the bait whole.

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I had many times this kind silly talks with different people but main ABS/ASF when sides play with words so i can understand you, BUT we all know what is going and why. If you want to blame some one and use definition MAP start with Sparta and Bart. Your donation 300 mill gold in active b2b wars is what trigger all. If you didn't interfere in it CR will have won his second war long ago and both sides will have already his CF deal. Why bich now how its unfair to TDD when Sparta/TDD already acted unfair to CR. What is going now is actually fair and what need to be given for answer when other party chart shape this drastic.

How i posted already i SUSPECT Sparta plan was to bring his friends big and before age end to deal break Emerity and GB them for win n1 land spot. Its why you gave for FREE 300 mill gold to TDD because you need them for your plan to work. Now when its not work Sparta is most upset from all.

p.s.
look like i messed kd name we war for 2-3 times this age but its not important :P

What a weird scenario, one month i read Matija ****ting on Bart for everything, now i see him in Sparta blaming Feyr, MAP, Aliens, Trump for everything. You can get lost in these small, yet entertaining forums if you don't follow closely (hell, you'll get lost either way) :)

Actually Elit, I've just joined this KD for reasons different than crowning. I'm not in the very least upset by that, like I said the closer I come to the understanding of certain KDs the better I will understand Utopia and we all know knowledge is power.
CR have done the same in the past, them or their allies were never processed for it because they were already a part of the MAP Group. It's this prevalent hypocrisy that upsets me, they come to these boards and act clean, they even attack Bart as a person for doing the same things they have always done.
FS is in it because they always try to benefit when the top fights, the lowest path of resistance is to side with the strong of course, ever since BB sort of lost out in power they do CR's or Emeriti's bidding, see that's how strong their "beliefs" are.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

CR hit them first and have stolen from them. FS interfered here, obviously they will say unaware of the situation, but let's be honest, this was planned from the start. It doesn't actually matter what you say or believe either. What matters is, Spartans are not strong enough to combat the MAP Consortium, that's what it comes down to. We can Uto lawyer and argue here all we want, it will not change a thing.

I see this more as a personal eyeopener as to what FS actually is. No matter the situation they could always pull out from hitting a KD that has done nothing to them and is otherwise engaged - the warring KD that they are they should be looking for wars not to double team someone, but they choose not to, they are part of the MAP Group and are just acting on the agreement they signed, the agreement that controls the server.

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Wrong!

TBB plundered CR *2 - didn't give meter
CR did not retal those hits.
FS hit TBB * 7 and gave meter - TBB had no meter with any other kd on the server
CR hit *2 in retal to the 2* TBB hits some hours earlier. - didn't give meter
TBB full wave CR while having open relations with FS.

That has been widely documented through this entire forum. Stop trying to twist the scenario to make FS look at fault here and your BS allegations on how they play the game.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Actually Elit, I've just joined this KD for reasons different than crowning. I'm not in the very least upset by that, like I said the closer I come to the understanding of certain KDs the better I will understand Utopia and we all know knowledge is power.
CR have done the same in the past, them or their allies were never processed for it because they were already a part of the MAP Group. It's this prevalent hypocrisy that upsets me, they come to these boards and act clean, they even attack Bart as a person for doing the same things they have always done.
FS is in it because they always try to benefit when the top fights, the lowest path of resistance is to side with the strong of course, ever since BB sort of lost out in power they do CR's or Emeriti's bidding, see that's how strong their "beliefs" are.

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Because it is the last T10 KD on the server that will have you?

This is for the people who play in ghetto kingdoms and wonder how things work in the "top tier". While I am new to this level of excellent game play, I think I have learned enough to kind of interpret the rules of engagement to those who are confused by the many posts in this thread.

a) In top tier, you can beat a kingdom in war, and then wave them again as soon as they come out of protection and take even more land and honor from them. Since they are in no position for an immediate rematch, they will be forced to give up their honor and land whether they like it or not.

b) If you lose a war, and find yourself being farmed by the kingdom you just lost to, you are not allowed to seek financial aid to help you prepare for the rematch, but you are allowed to ask other friends to beat down the winner's top provinces so you can break them in war.

c) If you are part of the MAP alliance, you make the rules, change the rules and can break the rules anytime you like and noone will do a thing about it.

To sum it all up, if you are in a ghetto kingdom and like to war...Stay there. You will find that most ghetto kingdoms fight with honor and respect and the wars and war forums are usually fun and exciting.

CR has stolen GC and horses, eh nvm, like I said doesn't matter.

BB hasn't kicked me out, I left, truth be told staying there was becoming more of a nuisance than pleasure for both me and them though - it was the right decision to leave. I have no idea where other KDs stand on taking me in, I don't care, I have other options, I have people that I can rally and start a KD of my own if all else fails - not trying to brag, just letting you understand my situation, I'll give you this power value since I'm in a good mood as I always try to be.

actually as Zauper posted log:
TBB (6 hrs):
21/50SWH45k|4/19IR39|4/8PIT18|12/16MS77|2/4BG|2/3RTV6.5k

45k WH and 6.5K WH. game changing.

OT, would be fun to have Matija KD :P i'd like to see it

MyNameIsKingdom, the destroyer of Worlds.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Ed

This is for the people who play in ghetto kingdoms and wonder how things work in the "top tier". While I am new to this level of excellent game play, I think I have learned enough to kind of interpret the rules of engagement to those who are confused by the many posts in this thread.

a) In top tier, you can beat a kingdom in war, and then wave them again as soon as they come out of protection and take even more land and honor from them. Since they are in no position for an immediate rematch, they will be forced to give up their honor and land whether they like it or not.

b) If you lose a war, and find yourself being farmed by the kingdom you just lost to, you are not allowed to seek financial aid to help you prepare for the rematch, but you are allowed to ask other friends to beat down the winner's top provinces so you can break them in war.

c) If you are part of the MAP alliance, you make the rules, change the rules and can break the rules anytime you like and noone will do a thing about it.

To sum it all up, if you are in a ghetto kingdom and like to war...Stay there. You will find that most ghetto kingdoms fight with honor and respect and the wars and war forums are usually fun and exciting.

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So far a/b/c is correct but its NOT how normally all go in top.

a. 2 KDs war one really loss other win both CF, or war end even no real winer often result b2b wars.

b+c its not good to ask other kingdoms to help you for your 1vs1 b2b wars. Dont matter how its processes. Most from time in TOP its stay much more clean from warring range because most KDs in top have CFs and number total KDs involved are much less from warring range. So if we compare warring/honor range and TOP i can tell you TOP play much more clean...still regular we can face total BS here too.

To sum it all: Utopia is very very dirty game (i have see other dirty game too) where humans show all his bad sides and you cant expect much fairness. Every time when one is feel like he can break rules (moral or game) and he wont get catch he do it. Its sad but its what i have see for so long.

I am confused... Am I a part of MAP alliance? would have been nice to have when CR 3v1 me oop

BTW when TBB cry now how they play so fair and how CR was bad one for ask for land lets remind you what you did early this age. YOU waved CR right after left from his war and you had over 3 mill NW advantage. Was clear CR cant war you like this and we asked for CF. TBB didn't offer us some kind terms for not hit our important prov but keep hits us for 2 days till noting left for you and after it TBB accepted CF. So when you act harsh and don't care for other ppl feeling why you expect other to be different to you?