Pyro v Green(?) v CR

[bombdigie]

This post is not only disingenuous but deceitful. Let's go through the course of events without lying so that people can actually analyze the situation.

The first time I messaged you was about 2 hours after your WW. I wished you congratulations on the WW and becoming the forth ranked kd in the server. I stated that you could give acres in a cf or that we would be waving you when you come oow. You replied that "After some discussion with KD mates we've decided to decline your offer." After this you then messaged our M and S to ask for confirmation that we would be waving you and our S at the time(Jwuzi) messaged you stating that we would be waving you. Rejecting cf offers is fine, and so i sent a message back stating "Oki. If you need anything or have a change of plans can find me on IRC or ask someone on IRC to slack me and i'll pop on. "

This was 4+ days ago.

After we go fort a day later you send us a message that you now would like a CF, but one that doesn't give land until after a war with pyro. This is a very reasonable request and one that we were more than happy to fulfil. I responded:

"Is there any way you could come onto IRC to talk? We already went fort/switched builds/started prep for you guys, but we'd still be open to a deal that gets you guys a fun war as long as it was made fairly quickly(since we'll have to keep prepping utnil deal is made). Can find me(topsy), zauper, or jwuzi on IRC. "

At this point I have given you 3 names and stated that if you asked basically anyone on IRC to find us we could be slacked and come online. Not only do we not get a further message from you ingame until right before the wave, but NONE of us recieve an IRC message. Now if I had only given you my name and you had happened to only be on IRC for the 6 hours i sleep and turn off IRC then I'd say fine; however, I gave you 3 names. One of these ( zauper) hasn't logged off from his IRC name since i've been playing and he certainly didn't recieve a message.

What is amazing to me is that you were able to talk "in detail" with nesta and pyro, and yet you took 1-2 days to respond to us and never once reached out to us on IRC even as we actively had people idling waiting for you. Furthermore, you read my messages within an hour after being sent every single time, so you can't very well say that you didn't see them or weren't online. You were willing to spend time concocting a plan to fake-hostile, but weren't willing to spend the few minutes it would have taken to make the cf.

As for your silly attempt at a fake hostile instead of a real hostile: I can't even blame you. If you were speaking in detail with prot and nesta to make this plan then they should have told you that a bunch of 0 acre hits would never be considered a hostile.

So, after 4 days of me messaging you, idling, preparing, waving, and even giving you more people after the wave that you can contact directly, you finally message us and we get a deal done in an hour. We would have made a deal within an hour 3+ days ago that didn't waste all of our time if you hadn't been convinced to forgo diplo in favor of fake hostilities. Instead you rejected a cf offer, then didn't reach out to us, then had the audacity to post something like this on the forums.

Legality is one of the few honest people left in this game, STFU

The war is about to begin.

[Palem]

Why make zero acre hits if its a real hostile?

Because that's the lame ass kind of stuff they felt they had to do to try and get a fair war and not have CR wave into it. I'm not saying the 0 acre hits weren't super pathetic or that not doing diplo was a great idea. What I'm saying is, if CR gives BB 48 hour notice and they're both pumping to war each other, it's bull**** if Pyro jumps in and starts hitting one of them before the notice is up on the grounds of "they weren't hostile yet". It's the same situation here. As prot said, this is dibs all over again.

edit: i'd also add that we'd much prefer the war to be on as even terms as possible and even offered GC to help expedite them sploring and/or retraining. That's really up to pyro/Green to decide though. I suspect pyro is fine warring with the advantages gained through their advice.

I'm sorry Topsy, but this is like giving a family a tent after you burned their house down. If you wanted to be fair and let them fight on even terms, then waving one of them would have been avoided.

I don't mind the whole hardcore mentality, but you're trying to play both sides of it and it looks bad. You can't be full on "All your acres are belong to us and we will take them when it best conveniences us" and also be full on "We respect the rights of all utopians to fight on an a level playing field and still strive to work against all those who oppose such philosophies". The two don't mix because one generally compromises the other.

[jwuzi]

it's bull**** if Pyro jumps in and starts hitting one of them before the notice is up on the grounds of "they weren't hostile yet"

If you don't have a cf with a kingdom, don't they have every right to wave you if you're not hostile?

Also, in that situation I think both kds would be happy for a button from a smaller kd :/

edit: Although this means people will start re-adjusting cf's to help friends and allies etc etc.

Why is nobody saying that CR and Pyro are allied and this was all a ruse?

And who the **** is BoH

[Palem]

If you don't have a cf with a kingdom, don't they have every right to wave you if you're not hostile?

If you want to get technical, you have every right to wave a kingdom regardless of cf's or hostilties. That being said, common courtesy around utopia is that you respect 1v1 fights and don't interfere and it's on pretty good standing with notices and such that you don't have to be "hostile" for people to stay out and respect the upcoming fight.

This is what I'm talking about. If you want to be of the attitude "We can wave whoever we want whenever we want" that's fine, but own it. Stop hiding behind this
"Well we told them we were gonna hit and they didn't say anything back and we knew they had a fight coming up but then they tried to do these lame hits to and say they're hostile so we went ahead and waved them like we planned because we weren't going to respect such a lame attempt at faking a hostile" that you guys have been flinging all over this thread lol

[Zauper]

Because that's the lame ass kind of stuff they felt they had to do to try and get a fair war and not have CR wave into it. I'm not saying the 0 acre hits weren't super pathetic or that not doing diplo was a great idea. What I'm saying is, if CR gives BB 48 hour notice and they're both pumping to war each other, it's bull**** if Pyro jumps in and starts hitting one of them before the notice is up on the grounds of "they weren't hostile yet". It's the same situation here. As prot said, this is dibs all over again.

I agree -- this is like dibs. Pyro and Green were trying to dib eachother with fake hits, and we denied their dibs on the grounds of them not actually having relations with eachother. If they didn't want us to hit them, they could have talked to us (my zauper nick has been online for 20+ days without a pm from them), or been in actual relations.

We're not saying we 'dibbed' them would have hit regardless. We're saying they weren't in relations and were thus free to be hit. Beyond that, if you do believe their contention, that agreeing to fight creates 'dibs', then we 'dibbed' them first by telling them we were going to wave.

Look, it's simple -- we don't consider 'war agreed' to be hostile, and we especially don't consider 'war agreed' to be hostile in the context of putting it up after being told you're going to get waved. If they had real relations, we would have stayed out. The same way that if kd A notices kd B, and then kd B notices kd C, you wouldn't expect A to stay out until after B and C fought. You may, however, expect them to if B and C were in war when noticed expired.

[Korp]

Because that's the lame ass kind of stuff they felt they had to do to try and get a fair war and not have CR wave into it. I'm not saying the 0 acre hits weren't super pathetic or that not doing diplo was a great idea. What I'm saying is, if CR gives BB 48 hour notice and they're both pumping to war each other, it's bull**** if Pyro jumps in and starts hitting one of them before the notice is up on the grounds of "they weren't hostile yet". It's the same situation here. As prot said, this is dibs all over again.

Why not just wave them properly? Then it would actually be a real hostile and not a "fake" one?

Also, if CR and BB didnt have their bases covered and Pyro was able to wave them within that timeframe it would be perfectly legit deal.

[Anri]

Some ppl might take Palem serious just because his name is green...

[Elborracho]

This is getting out of hand. All the above post have their points, but truth is, we had a planned war with pyro, diplomacy should perhaps have been better, but we did our best to stick with our deal with Pyro without stepping on anyones toes.

The reason we went anon this age is to avoid all this Fu"#"#ng drama all the time. All our kd is about is war, and to stick around for our friends in that kd.

All this drama destroys the game. We don't care abt the charts or the forums. WE might endup in the charts, but thats not our goal, but it happens cause we are dedicated to the game. And you can look at any Green member forum post to see we arent active here either:D

unfortunally this game has ended up that half the game is trying to keep bullies and A-holes from beating on u. Cause it seems there is a lot of "rules" but no one seems to follow them.

But I guess we can do as FS last age
If we win, is because we are awesome, If we lose it's because CR.
Either way:D

[Godly]

I have not asked since........... age.... 57? The only reason I asked was because of maximouse. I don't give a **** how good or not I am, I would not ever choose a kingdom that you were involved with unless it had a number of friends in it and everyone was ok with me putting you on ignore (since I assume in the event you had anything important to say, it could be pasted to me).

I am not telling you how to “win at utopia”, btw. I was suggesting that you could be less of a prick. I don't think many would disagree with me there. I have never, nor will I ever, care about who wins "the crown". If I did, I would have tried to cultivate the relationships and connections to do that. Is there ANY indication I have ever done that? Nope.

I am not impressed by you Godly. I never have been. You are not impressed by me, and never have been.

The important difference between you and I, is I don't go out of my way to **** on people. I don't get some sort of ego boost (or present some affected ego trip if you argue that your forum persona is an act) from this game. This is just a way to waste time while I am idle between tasks.

Your response is the typical rejected person. "I would never play in a kingdom with you." You have tried and I have blocked it every single time. You will never play in a good kingdom ever again, if you continue to piss me off. I have way more pull in utopia than just my kingdom. I can literally tell any monarch in utopia that I'm joining their kingdom if they boot you and it will be done within 20 seconds. You know why? Your value in utopia is about as low as it can be and my value is about as high as it can be. You are just some random dude that talks a lot of stuff and runs a subpar province. I am an actual living legend. *I* bring the crowns. *I* bring the prestige. *I* bring the tactics. *I* bring the top players. I can literally create a CR type competitive kingdom from any shell. Know who you're talking to before you end up exiled.

And if you're trying to trigger me, it's not working at all. I'm not mad. I view utopia as such a low competitive game at this point that I wouldn't mind taking a round off just to prove a point.

[Bishop]

Because that's the lame ass kind of stuff they felt they had to do to try and get a fair war and not have CR wave into it. I'm not saying the 0 acre hits weren't super pathetic or that not doing diplo was a great idea. What I'm saying is, if CR gives BB 48 hour notice and they're both pumping to war each other, it's bull**** if Pyro jumps in and starts hitting one of them before the notice is up on the grounds of "they weren't hostile yet". It's the same situation here. As prot said, this is dibs all over again.

This whole 'notice' thing is ass and should be ignored at every stage possible.

[Band of Horses]

Your response is the typical rejected person. "I would never play in a kingdom with you." You have tried and I have blocked it every single time. You will never play in a good kingdom ever again, if you continue to piss me off. I have way more pull in utopia than just my kingdom. I can literally tell any monarch in utopia that I'm joining their kingdom if they boot you and it will be done within 20 seconds. You know why? Your value in utopia is about as low as it can be and my value is about as high as it can be. You are just some random dude that talks a lot of stupid things and runs a subpar province. I am an actual living legend. *I* bring the crowns. *I* bring the prestige. *I* bring the tactics. Know who you're talking to before you end up exiled. And if you're trying to trigger me, it's not working at all. I'm not mad. I view utopia as such a low competitive game at this point that I wouldn't mind taking a round off just to prove a point.

But then he could just join the kd you left. You can only play in one kd at a time.

[Bishop]

I can literally tell any monarch in utopia that I'm joining their kingdom if they boot you and it will be done within 20 seconds.

[Palem]

Look, it's simple -- we don't consider 'war agreed' to be hostile, and we especially don't consider 'war agreed' to be hostile

Saving this for future drama :)

[Meep]

This whole 'notice' thing is ass and should be ignored at every stage possible.

Notice is a mutual thing, and if both people feel it benefits them, why would they ignore it, or why agree to it in the first place?

[Korp]

Your response is the typical rejected person. "I would never play in a kingdom with you." You have tried and I have blocked it every single time. You will never play in a good kingdom ever again, if you continue to piss me off. I have way more pull in utopia than just my kingdom. I can literally tell any monarch in utopia that I'm joining their kingdom if they boot you and it will be done within 20 seconds. You know why? Your value in utopia is about as low as it can be and my value is about as high as it can be. You are just some random dude that talks a lot of stuff and runs a subpar province. I am an actual living legend. *I* bring the crowns. *I* bring the prestige. *I* bring the tactics. *I* bring the top players. I can literally create a CR type competitive kingdom from any shell. Know who you're talking to before you end up exiled.

And if you're trying to trigger me, it's not working at all. I'm not mad. I view utopia as such a low competitive game at this point that I wouldn't mind taking a round off just to prove a point.

Lets talk about typical responses and behaviour, how come we never heard of this Godly/alexander? But about the time Utopia started to go downwards in a rapid pace we started see and hear about this Godly fella and the more the game degenerated and good competition went away the more Goldy started to talk and claim how good he was.

You dont bring ****, you havent proven yourself with anything Godly you just ride on the fame of actual good players then pretend to take all the credit. Hence why nobody heard of you when Utopia was actually competitive. Man, you should go and create this own kd of yours from scratch take 24 nubs and win the age. If Mansoor can do it im sure you could as well!