Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

[goodz]

I don't understand why you want to remove MS from faeries? They are pretty one sided as it is ... why force them to run Mystics to get the MS, just weird.

Makes it so they can't be sage which is a pretty solid nerf. But I do agree I like them having all spells :)

[Lordwarallied]

thats a nerf Triv, forcing them to get that means that they wont be able to get other buffs somewhere else.

[Prometheus]

Race Changes

Avian
-35% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage

- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW

Avians will be weak attackers with only a 7/5 military, gains penalty, no stables, no space efficiency bonuses, which is fine - but at least let them be truly fast. Even this age they are still a little bit slow, needing barracks to hit below 8 hours in war. So let's improve the speed bonus slightly.

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Dwarf
+ 10% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings

+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 700gc, 6.25NW

The elite is priced too high in money and networth. They are still weak attackers with these prices, but at least not totally underpowered

--------------

Elves
+50% WPA
+1 mana in war
+ 1 defence specialist strength

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW

Decent race like this. Gonna have to be played as a hybrid, cheap elite which can defend, no problem here.

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Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW

If "all racial spells" means faery lost meteor showers, absolutely fine.

---------------

Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 stealth
- 50% thief cost

-15% Birth Rate

Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 3/3
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW

A little bit weak without their population bonus. The boost to their soldiers is not very useful at 2/2 (unless this affects dragons but I guess not), at 3/3 this becomes a useful bonus without being unbalanced.

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Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

I like this overhaul. Leave as it is, perhaps with 5nw/elite instead of 5.5

-------------

Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits

-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage

Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW

Way overpowered compared to the other races, most of which were nerfed. No orc ever performs ops in any case, so the penalty there is useless. Since we're only supposed to change numbers, put the elite at 8/2 or at 9nw, but really, think of a better penalty. Like "50% of all ops against orcs auto-succeed without taking into account tpa/wpa/wt".

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The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

- 25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1200gc, 8NW

Slightly overpowered, 1000gc/elite is trainable in elite pumps and once trained, those elites stay around. Make it harder, at 1200gc.

Personality Changes

The Sage
+ 40% Science effectiveness
-66% Losses on Learn Attacks
Immune to The Plague

Too weak, without a reduction in book costs, sages will need higher science effectiveness than suggested.

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The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

Too weak to use in a normal KD because honour is so easily lost. All war hero KDs would work, but even there it is weak. The draft cost/train time bonuses are small. If you have to tweak numbers only here, make it "1 hour training time" to add some uniqueness here.

[Lordwarallied]

Race Changes

Avian
-35% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage

- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW

Avians will be weak attackers with only a 7/5 military, gains penalty, no stables, no space efficiency bonuses, which is fine - but at least let them be truly fast. Even this age they are still a little bit slow, needing barracks to hit below 8 hours in war. So let's improve the speed bonus slightly.

--------------

Dwarf
+ 10% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings

+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 700gc, 6.25NW

The elite is priced too high in money and networth. They are still weak attackers with these prices, but at least not totally underpowered

--------------

Elves
+50% WPA
+1 mana in war
+ 1 defence specialist strength

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW

Decent race like this. Gonna have to be played as a hybrid, cheap elite which can defend, no problem here.

------------------
Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW

If "all racial spells" means faery lost meteor showers, absolutely fine.

---------------

Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 stealth
- 50% thief cost

-15% Birth Rate

Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 3/3
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW

A little bit weak without their population bonus. The boost to their soldiers is not very useful at 2/2 (unless this affects dragons but I guess not), at 3/3 this becomes a useful bonus without being unbalanced.

------------

Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

I like this overhaul. Leave as it is, perhaps with 5nw/elite instead of 5.5

-------------

Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits

-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage

Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW

Way overpowered compared to the other races, most of which were nerfed. No orc ever performs ops in any case, so the penalty there is useless. Since we're only supposed to change numbers, put the elite at 8/2 or at 9nw, but really, think of a better penalty. Like "50% of all ops against orcs auto-succeed without taking into account tpa/wpa/wt".

-------------

The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

- 25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1200gc, 8NW

Slightly overpowered, 1000gc/elite is trainable in elite pumps and once trained, those elites stay around. Make it harder, at 1200gc.

Personality Changes

The Sage
+ 40% Science effectiveness
-66% Losses on Learn Attacks
Immune to The Plague

Too weak, without a reduction in book costs, sages will need higher science effectiveness than suggested.

--------------

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

Too weak to use in a normal KD because honour is so easily lost. All war hero KDs would work, but even there it is weak. The draft cost/train time bonuses are small. If you have to tweak numbers only here, make it "1 hour training time" to add some uniqueness here.

Wait, did you just buffed Avians? on top on their actual buff? thats crazy. Dwarf elite change doesnt make them that viable. they still need an important buff. Halfers: 3/3 solds is weird. i dunno. Aggression should be brought back or double their housing effect, or aggression. Ud should be buffed, not nerfed. elites should be mroe affordable, if not, like ive said many times, make plague more virulant or give them a kill bonus instead of what i proposed from dwarves.

[Persain]

I guess you missed the part where faery lost 40% of their space efficiency? Space efficiency is the only reason faery works.

Faery was so broken this age. The nerf was required. I wouldn't mind them having +50% wpa/TPA if you nerf the elite.

Personally i'd rather they have space efficiency in their tpa/wpa than in their leets. running 100% safe from massacres with only a minor risk of conquest in the in early wars is just ridiculous. let them choose halfing level tpa & elf level wpa or unbreakable, dont give them both.

[Budlightyear]

Personally i'd rather they have space efficiency in their tpa/wpa than in their leets. running 100% safe from massacres with only a minor risk of conquest in the in early wars is just ridiculous. let them choose halfing level tpa & elf level wpa or unbreakable, dont give them both.

Agreed! Offense needs to be balanced with defense... if the fact that so many Faeries are Viscount and above says anything at all it's that as they are right now they have both.

I think as they are with these changes they should be fine, though. They lost some space efficiency, hence they can make the choice if that translates to lost WPA/TPA or lost defense when they run their province.

[DRAX]

I like the overall changes.

BUT...
I think Avians and Orcs need something extra.

I could be like:

Avians: +25% attack speed
Orcs: Massacre 5% thief/wizzies on all attacks.

[Tightpants]

Makes it so they can't be sage which is a pretty solid nerf. But I do agree I like them having all spells :)

It's usually considered bad game design to nerf something by limiting player choice.

[Budlightyear]

It's usually considered bad game design to nerf something by limiting player choice.

You could still play Faery/Sage and cast every spell other than MS. MS is not the only spell in the game, but it is very powerful and personally I see why it should only be given to dedicated Mages (who are playing Mystic at the exclusion of attacking/thief abilities.)

Last age player choice was limited by the fact that Faeries already had MS, so there was no reason for anyone to play a Faery/Mystic. On the contrary, this causes Faeries to actually make a choice, it doesn't take away choice.

[Landro]

Orc looks over powered, do you really need 50% reduced losses from everything, 9 point elite, +20% gains, and elites with credits in an age when you get free credits when you win a war? I would remove the trains elites with credits bonus. Which I still think leaves them as one of the strongest races.

I think you misread Orc. Spells and ops done by Orcs have -50% damage. Not those received by Orcs.

[Ethan]

It's usually considered bad game design to nerf something by limiting player choice.

'Tis a trade off - either better numbers of a sage, or MS. You still have a choice, and 'tis a more balanced choice than before IMO. This age faery mystic was a bad choice - just be sage, *much* stronger. With the update mystic is almost as good as before, but all non-mystics are weaker, which is exactly the goal.


What is with everyone trying to buff dwarf? As far as I can see it is a perfectly good attacker already - solid top line power (about 91% of orc), strong econ buff (free build) and a decent spell-book (Qf = 0% rax is ok). Can double up as an FB spam A/m nicely.


In terms of estimated pure attacker "top line power" (how much military they can manage) we have the following:

Rankings____OPA_____DPA____NW/A___MPNW____%Max
Faery______55.23____29.74___134.6____0.63____74.88%
Elf_________81.04____43.64___166.07___0.75____89.06%
Dwarf______92.77____49.95___184.98___0.77____91.53%
Human_____86.94____46.81___173.33___0.77____91.54%
Avian______92.42____49.76___183.37___0.78____91.98%
Halfling_____83.75____45.1____164.38___0.78____92.98%
Undead_____99.21____53.42___188.27___0.81____96.18%
Orc_______103.94____55.97___189.7____0.84___100.00%

Overall, well balanced. Halfer looks a bit high, elf looks a bit low. Note the elf is using spec offense, and the human is also pure specs. So static defense on both... which is a big "hidden" malus.

[Landro]

No orc ever performs ops in any case, so the penalty there is useless.

Really?
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...1#post15094686
We had 90% success rate with FB and that was when Orcs had wpa and tpa penalties

[Lordwarallied]

Lol, thats essentially why Ops strenght is removed from them. They already have strenght. Races is just a name. Those without penalty can do serious dommage, so i dont see why orcs cant do dammages without the penalty. That being said, Orcs with the right set of sci and Tds(it wont happen but possible) could do dammage with their actual penalty

[Tightpants]

I think you misread Orc. Spells and ops done by Orcs have -50% damage. Not those received by Orcs.

Still makes them OP since it's a "do nothing" penalty.

edit: ethan how many times do i have to tell you those numbers are wrong

[Landro]

Still makes them OP since it's a "do nothing" penalty.

edit: ethan how many times do i have to tell you those numbers are wrong

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...1#post15094686