Simians Vs Sanc, HoH or Rage

[CuPillar]

BTW this is how i see things,

1. Simians (anri) tried to do a powerplay
2. it didn't work
3. they (anri) cry foul

the thing is, if you try a powerplay, you need to expect that people will react against it. you cannot be all, 'we notice 3 KDs to try **** them up', and then when people dont like it they fight you be all 'boo hoo this is unfair'

you tried to power, you failed, move on, if you wanted to be fair and be all righteous (+7/+7 1W) then you would have noticed 1 KD and warred them.

you didnt. you lost. go back to boo hooing.

you are all high horse until you get whomped.

[jdorje]

Just to clarify.

* Starting a dragon did not make us hostile with them. It was a hint we intended to fight them, though.
* Breaking cf and sending a dragon also did not make us hostile with them. This was an even bigger hint though.
* Hitting their cow, also did not make us hostile. By this time I hope the hint was pretty clear.
* Telling them that they noticed us and we intended to wave them as soon as they left fortified, was pretty clear. At this point they should certainly know not to start waving another kingdom.
* After they left fortified and did seven (7) hits on hoh, we began our wave, as I told them we would. At this point you would think that they'd start planning to fight us. Continuing and giving hoh the button while in the process of being waved by another kingdom that had told them an hour ago of an intention to wave as soon as they left fortified...well, it boggles the mind really.

The simple guideline is, don't expect to notice a kingdom and be able to dodge them. We told simians quite clearly that we had "dibs" with respect to hoh; i.e., we had talked to hoh and agreed that sanc would fight simians and hoh would stay out. For simians to ignore our imminent intention of waving and try to wave hoh in the middle of our wave is not smart.

As I also said though, I wouldn't want to fight us either.


The Province of Outplayers Empire as of March 1, YR10.
Race Human --- Soldiers 0
Ruler The Wealthy Lord Utopia --- Swordsmen 228438
Land 21052 Acres --- Archers 0
Peasants 14000 --- Knights 393585
Building Eff. 84% --- Thieves (a lot) (100%)
Money 52170048gc --- Wizards (even more) (16%)
Food 95771 bushels --- War Horses 0
Runes 1223389 runes --- Prisoners 0
Trade Balance 1778673gc --- Off. Points 4374995
Service Level Basic --- Def. Points 2117164

[sexual harassment panda]

can i dibbs that cow???

[Elit]

Simians Situation is almost same what was few ages ago for rage. Proteus still keep talk he was doubled. If its true now simians is doubled from sanc. Only difference is rage had huge advantage and simians dont have. For this to put his kd on propose 2vs1 was stupid.

asf, we still didn't finish our talk in irc but don't pm me 2-5 am my time. I'm retired and don't talk all night more.

[sexual harassment panda]

damn double dibbers

[ShadowFox]

This boils down to which kingdom gets to pick who they fight in a 3 fish fight. I have always advised my kingdoms and Absalom kingdoms that if a kingdom wants to fight you (and that kingdom is a worthy match) that you should not try and run from the fight by instead choosing a more suitable target quickly to avoid them. My kingdoms have never done that and we've instead stood and fought the kingdom wanting to fight us even when outmatched and even when it resulted in a month of mutual destruction. I've always advised other Absalom kingdoms to also play this way although at times not all have listened.

The first thing we all need to recognize is that this "1v1" stuff is indeed an artificial construct largely put in place by top kingdoms and alliances with Absalom being the most obvious early proponent of. The game lets multiple kingdoms fight one kingdom just fine. Looking at this aspect, it would be very foolish to wave another kingdom when another strong kingdom is in the process of fighting you and has made it clear that they intend to full wave you and have already sent you a dragon and hit your cow. To quickly instead hit another kingdom is really to try and abuse the artificial "rule" of not hitting into "hostiles".

I've always also been a proponent of using common sense and not abusing some set of artificial "rules" to take advantage of situations such as by dodging a fight by quickly waving a kingdom that you feel to be an easier match. Likewise it would be an abuse to have 4 kingdoms all do 7 hits on one and claim no hostile so it's fine just because none was given ingame.

Use common sense, don't abuse rules (especially artificial ones), and don't run from fights by quickly initiating easier ones and everyone will have less trouble. This statement goes for everyone abs or not.

Well its artificial to expect ABS to do anything 1v1 unless it suits them.

[lastunicorn]

If Simians gets farmed will they still fight sanc next?

[Evillone]

The NAP system that the top has worked out is obviously broken. they should just throw it out all together. No NAPS no one can dice, if you cant dice you have to be war ready at all times, if you are war ready at all times sillycats cant steal GC you are saving up for pump, if sillycats cant steal GC they dont piss BIO off and if they dont piss BIO off simians is not left in a 3v1 with ABS. pro logic FTW!

[sexual harassment panda]

If Simians gets farmed will they still fight sanc next?

it all depends on if rage decides to dib into this too. they are the higher rank so their dibs outweighs sanc's dibs.

also sinners can dibs too if they feel like it, at which point odds/evens will settle who is the ultimate dibstick.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Simians Situation is almost same what was few ages ago for rage. Proteus still keep talk he was doubled. If its true now simians is doubled from sanc. Only difference is rage had huge advantage and simians dont have. For this to put his kd on propose 2vs1 was stupid.

BIO was quite a bit smaller and had not hit Rage, dragoned Rage, or otherwise indicated they might wave or war Rage. Rage noticed only one kingdom (Dreams.) Rage dragoned and hit Dreams. Only after this, did BIO hit Rage 7x and state that they would never give Rage the button. Since Rage was already fighting Dreams whom they had noticed, dragoned, and started hits on, and since BIO said they would not give the button, Rage continued to hit Dreams. Dreams then went to fw with BIO and both kingdoms full waved Rage from the fw. BIO did not want to fight Rage 1v1 at that time and they stated this openly. They wanted to 2v1 Rage (or GB Rage) and ensure that Rage could not declare them while doing it.

This is not the same situation.

[ShadowFox]

BIO was quite a bit smaller and had not hit Rage, dragoned Rage, or otherwise indicated they might wave or war Rage. Rage noticed only one kingdom (Dreams.) Rage dragoned and hit Dreams. Only after this, did BIO hit Rage 7x and state that they would never give Rage the button. Since Rage was already fighting Dreams whom they had noticed, dragoned, and started hits on, and since BIO said they would not give the button, Rage continued to hit Dreams. Dreams then went to fw with BIO and both kingdoms full waved Rage from the fw. BIO did not want to fight Rage 1v1 at that time and they stated this openly. They wanted to 2v1 Rage (or GB Rage) and ensure that Rage could not declare them while doing it.


This is not the same situation.

I see ASF hasnt changed over the ages, still spinning everything to make ABS look better. Kinda sad

[princess]

I sorta agree to a point with what asf had posted, had the game mechanics gave some protection to a kd who is hostile from other kds alot would be solved. Lots can be done with game mechanics and i think they made a good step in rewarding war winners more, thou as dorje pointed out somewhere it still is not enough. The winner in these battles is the kd who can stay in pump-dice mode and not fight with the exception of a utter farming of one kd of say 40-45k acres in min time like bio did to hoh last Age.
Everyone is picking on anri everywhere he may have made some mistakes noticing all three abs kds but he felt we needed desperate action to have a shot at crown. Even if sanc had not interferred and waited til war was over woith hoh and vultured us, assuming simians won war it was still a uphill battle. he took the chance to try make all three abs kds prepare and had hoped us picking hoh would have worked without interfernce. This was not the case, but anri did this with the full support of simians and we all totally support him. He may have made a mistake but he doesnt need to be ridiculed here.
What has happened has happened and in some ways new precendents and it heated up server. REmeber it is a WAR game and we here to fight it just more clearly defines stuff and the lines.
Those who supported Simians we would like to thank.

[lastunicorn]

Everyone is picking on anri everywhere he may have made some mistakes noticing all three abs kds but he felt we needed desperate action to have a shot at crown. Even if sanc had not interferred ...

If sims noticed only rage, sanc or hoh would have noticed you, and rage would still crown. It was a neat move that slowed everyone down, but not even Anri expected to crown this age.

[I_am_Spartacus]

Quit acting asif something new happened here. This happens hundreds of times every age in a much more blatant form. The only reason this one is so controversial is the fact that it has the grounds to be justified (not saying it is or isn't).

[Drixx]

It's nice to see that, like Simians, the complex web of diplomacy and courtesy in this game continues to evolve.