Let's Throw Down - Stables and Ponies, yay or nay?

[Bishop]

Your situation is that you are not drafted and trained and is irrelevant to the general discussion. Special cases like this are not helpful

example

I have 1 troop, my one stable really mods his offense! <-- not useful.

[astronomer86]

Huh? I wanted to have decent defence OOP, hence the trolls. By reading this thread i see your point. But with my situation having Stables suppplies me with me with more offense in the short term than Training Grounds. Yes TG have a quicker effect than Stables because Stables require time for horses to accumulate. And yes if i drafted and trained naught but Ogres then Training Grounds would be more effective. But i trained Trolls also. I get your point Bishop, put your fangs away. I was leading on from my first posting stating that Stables are worth it at the start of the Age. From what ive learned here it seems Training Grounds would have been better. The benefits of hindsight ...

[astronomer86]

If you have one troop and one stable, you would get better gains than one troop and one training ground. .. unless you are down to ten acres.


...

[astronomer86]

Well, roughly ten acres depending on the troop. This thread has been frigging informative!

[gergnub]

getting less and less informative tho :/

[AWOL]

Do some mathematical scenarios for yourself...

Scenario 1: Take 1000 acre province with 25,000 total population that is drafting 60% military. 15,000 military troops with a 3:2 offense to defense ratio. This would leave room for 9,000 offensive troops. Assuming you only had room for 10% offensive buildings insert your offensive troop values into the calculation and figure out which building has a higher value.

9,000*4(Ospecs)= 36,000 MO
36,000*12%(15% OME*.80 BE)= 4,320 NW free MO
60 Horses per stable * 100 acres= 6,000 additional Raw MO


Scenario 2: Take a 1000 acre province with 25,000 total population that is drafting 60% military. 15,000 military troops with a 2:1 offense to defense ratio. This would leave room for 10,000 offensive troops. Assuming you only had room for 10% offensive buildings insert your offensive troop values into the calculation and figure out which building has a higher value.

10,000*4(Ospecs)= 40,000 MO
40,000*12%(15% OME*.80 BE)= 4,800 NW free MO
60 Horses per stable * 100 acres= 6,000 additional Raw MO


Scenario 3: Take a 1000 acre province with 25,000 total population that is drafting 60% military. 15,000 military troops with a 3:2 Orc/UD Elite to defense ratio. This would leave room for 9,000 Elites with an offensive value of 7. Assuming you only had room for 10% offensive buildings insert your offensive troop values into the calculation and figure out which building has a higher value.

9,000*7(Elite Value)= 63,000 MO
63,000*12%(15% OME*.80 BE)= 7,560 NW free MO
60 Horses per stable * 100 acres= 6,000 additional Raw MO

Conclusion: Any heavy attacker with sense is going to run both buildings at high % for a majority of the age. If you feel the need to debate relative value of each building though, run likely scenarios and compare the two buildings. The lower your raw MO is the higher value Stables have? The higher MO you have the higher value TGs have. If you want 110 OPA you are probably going to run enough horses for 90%+ of your army and 20-25% TG.

[lmtdconv92]

Awol, Im pretty sure that as a capacity building, stables output is what effected by BE, but not total capacity. IE, no matter whether you have 50 BE or 120 BE, it will still hold 60 horses. Am I mistaken? The BE only effects how many horses per tick are trained.

[tamle]

lmtdconv92 you're correct.

[astronomer86]

Stables arent effected. Im learning alot though. I should be studying physics but ...

[Persain]

Stables arent effected. Im learning alot though. I should be studying physics but ...

study physics its so much more interesting than this drivel about stables. Stables are easy run enough to cover just under your offensive units, then put the rest in tg. Once u start waring lose stables build TG. doesnt matter if u dedicate 10% of your land to stables/tg for 30%, run the stables first and let them phase out. making the highest numbers is only important for 2-3 attackers per kd, rest of the time u want sustainability lower tg=>higher tg does that the best.

[AWOL]

Awol, Im pretty sure that as a capacity building, stables output is what effected by BE, but not total capacity. IE, no matter whether you have 50 BE or 120 BE, it will still hold 60 horses. Am I mistaken? The BE only effects how many horses per tick are trained.

Sorry for the error... I corrected my original post to properly depict this now

[lmtdconv92]

My answer to what is better, TGs or stables is run both. As dwarf I had 15% TGs and 15% stables. Come once I sent out my first unique in war, I razed my 15% stables and added 10% to TGs and the other 5% to waht was currently more important. GS, WT, etc.

As far as other races, wheather dwarf, human, UD or orc or whatever, I would run 10-15% of both as well. More Offense is better than less offense. I dont see how people can say otherwise. Wheather it is NW free offense or not, it is still offense.

[nooblet]

The thread is "Stables and Ponies", not "Stables vs. TG deathmatch".

[Zobo]

Keeping armies in/out is not viable for the vast majority of players and you can never guarantee it will be possible. Horses can be stolen, idk why you think they are immune to ops? Horses add networth, this is a bad thing though you seem to think otherwise for some reason. Stables take a long time to fill and so cannot be rebuilt to good effect in war. These are the reasons you get your TGs in first. TGs are instant effect nw-free offense that mod your entire offensive army. You cap out your tgs, then you add stables.

Stables only take 60 hours to fill from empty. That's hardly an issue for most people, especially when you can run just 5-10% of your land during eowcf as Stables, and then build up the rest after (that way you have to fill less and benefit from greater horse breeding rates). Do stables take more planning and tenacity to use properly? Yes. Do they net you more offense (on hybrids) and building flexibility? Yes.

Making 2 uniques a day is not viable for the vast majority of players. Doesn't mean 1 unique is optimum.

Zobo i am Orc this Age. In early Age 10% Stables benefit me more than 10% Training Grounds. 2000 Ogres = 14,000 offense points. 10% (50) Stables add 3000 points. I dont know exactly what percent bonus 10% Training Grounds give (as i have none yet) but im sure Stables benefit me moreso. 10% Tg approx 12-15% = 2100 points at the most.

The less offensive units you have the stronger stables are than TGs. At early age, stables always trump TGs for all races, because you're severely underdrafted.

This is why stables are awesome for hybrids, because they often do not run large offense (enough to single or double tap enemies). You can usually cover your entire army with 5-10% stables, and they will net a 20-25% *raw* offense boost because of it.

[AWOL]

+1 Zobo just go with what he is saying^^