AMA vs sanct round 2

[Elit]

Still waiting for elitBG to teach me how to run 0 thieves on a province and then say it's not my fault when the gc gets stolen!

Look at sanctuary and you will know. They robed and got punished. For avoid being farmed again called his ally for double hostile us in pathetic way.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Look at sanctuary and you will know. They robed and got punished. For avoid being farmed again called his ally for double hostile us in pathetic way.

Elit, you like to pretend that Sanc has never talked to you about a cf and that they called an ally in, but that ally told you in advance they'd notice as soon as you were out of post war and then noticed you on their own. After you got notice from havoc and then started waving sanc, dorje talked to you and tried to get you to cf him and warned that you waving sanc and refusing to cf them would not go well for either you or sanc since you both had kingdoms wanting to vulture you. You thought you were in a position where you could force a cf extension with Havoc by going after sanc instead but it didn't work out.

[American Badass]

When sanc got their gc farmed as elit "told everyone" it was their own fault for not running thieves...

Havoc notices MA so naturally they should (and prob was) getting ready for that but had zero idea sanc would rob their gc but again MA fault for NOT being ready, anyone coulda robbed them...

Just like now sanc is crying they are not ready for pew pew? It is part of a war game to be ready whenever for anything?

If you're going to alter a quote, I'm sexy and I know it, make clear in it what you altered. Don't try and pretend it was coming from me.

Altering quotes is BAD.

[Elit]

Elit, you like to pretend that Sanc has never talked to you about a cf and that they called an ally in, but that ally told you in advance they'd notice as soon as you were out of post war and then noticed you on their own. After you got notice from havoc and then started waving sanc, dorje talked to you and tried to get you to cf him and warned that you waving sanc and refusing to cf them would not go well for either you or sanc since you both had kingdoms wanting to vulture you. You thought you were in a position where you could force a cf extension with Havoc by going after sanc instead but it didn't work out.

Session Start: Sun Apr 14 00:11:05 2013
Session Ident: dorje
[00:11] <Elit> hi
[00:11] <dorje> hello
[00:11] <Elit> so you choice to start ops us
[00:11] <Elit> and havoc send notice
[00:11] <Elit> from simple ask for cf and cancel dragon
[00:11] <dorje> i dont care what havoc does
[00:12] <dorje> you never asked us for a cf, or we probably woulda said yes
[00:12] <dorje> and we also got notice, from pewpew
[00:12] <dorje> so will be in just as much trouble as you, since we're not in declare range so it's hard to see this going to war unless we farm you oow
[00:12] <Elit> why rob us if you got notice?
[00:12] <dorje> notice is 2 days off
[00:12] <dorje> if you want to protect your gc, you probably shouldn't run 0 thieves
[00:13] <Elit> was not on propose
[00:13] <dorje> or, if you don't want your money to be robbed when you have 0 thieves, you probably shouldn't go around asking the server to rob havoc when they have 0 thieves
[00:13] <dorje> or, if you think that robbing someone is a hostile, then you probably shouldn't tell the whole server to rob havoc at once
[00:13] <Elit> well you robed from havoc 28 mill during our hostile too
[00:14] <Elit> but atm we wont stop hits will we get war or new extend cf with havoc after you rob us
[00:14] <Elit> so plan yout stufs
Session Close: Sun Apr 14 02:54:27 2013

Where he asked us for cf? Don't spear lies ASF. There never was cf propose from Sanctuary. After we waved and he start FB/FG us in return there is no way to cf him. Havoc clear interfere in active hostile and doule us and im sure its was planed from begin from both kds.

[brado]

Havoc clear interfere in active hostile and doule us and im sure its was planed from begin from both kds.

They planned for u to run 0 thieves, and then planned for you to wave them in retaliation for stealing the gold? That's pretty clever. I should always plan on my enemies running 0 thieves and waving me for stealing. Should give me the upper hand every time.

[Soul_Hunter]

So now it appears Sanctuary robbed us because we "target shared" Havoc's banks? I thought it was because Sanc thought we are gonna wave them... Also it is strange how something that happened 2 weeks ago comes out now. We can sum things up like that: last age Rage noticed BB right after war because they didn't like them so that's fine. This age Sanctuary+Havoc pulled that out cause they didn't like us, it is fine. We did the same to them, that's terribly wrong and awful thing to do.

[tak3shi]

Well i start to agree with tak3shi and Absalom. They are totally right:

- Elit target shared the cow
- we abused a bug
- we wanted to dodge Havoc
- we double hostiled Sanctuary
- Sanctuary had all the rights to rob from us
- pewpew double hostiled Sanctuary
- pewpew are our allies, so are cats, simians and whoever you say
- Havoc didn't double us
- 12 hours of no attacks (with 13 hour attack time for armies) is no hostile
- Absalom are all right, they never do wrong things
- I am ready to be baptized
:)

See here's where you are wrong. I said, If Elit didn't start target sharing the fault would be on abs. As for knowledge on the bug and abusing it well that's not clear cut, since we've no clue if Elit actually knew but from speaking with Dorje he expected fort to help protect gc which isn't weird since it's the original intention of fort to have a gains and thievery/magic modifier penalty.

I've never said 1 side was right but I did lay out what have been a generally accepted timeline of events from both sides. If you blame Sanc for stealing then you should first blame Elit for target sharing that's all, as I said shady moves will only get 1 upped so don't start in the first place.

First and foremost if you accept notice and agree to run notices you should never break the notice agreements or try to find grey areas. If you want to accept hostile as when you have hostile ops then never agree to notices, if you do then abide by it. Trying to pull a Simians is never wise.

Heck if you did what Pulse did when they won crown recently, war all abs kds fair and square you will only receive prestige and acclaim on all sides. Pulse even returned acres which a dodgy province suicided on abs and got hit on Pulse and some others and crowned in spite of that. Why the hell your kd/leaders do some of the things you do, I have no freaking clue. It's insane, like not cf'ing Sanc especially after target sharing.

I mean certain decisions have shown weak characteristics displayed and pure immaturity. If Elit controlled his mouth there would be no controversy now to begin with.

[Elit]

They planned for u to run 0 thieves, and then planned for you to wave them in retaliation for stealing the gold? That's pretty clever. I should always plan on my enemies running 0 thieves and waving me for stealing. Should give me the upper hand every time.

They planed Sanctuary to rob us for slow our prepare vs notice. I don't say Sanctuary don't have right to rob us, but its risk because we can wave them and they cant really fight back. The planed part was: you will double hostile us don't matter if we have real hostile. Notice don't give you right to wave in active hostile.

See here's where you are wrong. I said, If Elit didn't start target sharing the fault would be on abs. As for knowledge on the bug and abusing it well that's not clear cut, since we've no clue if Elit actually knew but from speaking with Dorje he expected fort to help protect gc which isn't weird since it's the original intention of fort to have a gains and thievery/magic modifier penalty.

Dorje accuse us in cheat: bug abuse, after it i accuse them for intra alliance farming. He accuse us in forum i made same. Goodz reported me for target share and i didn't got my account punished, so its clear i didn't broke forum rules. Taunt was send from some other kd and i didn't know for it till some one asked me in irc about it.

[tak3shi]

If you're going to alter a quote, make clear in it what you altered. Don't try and pretend it was coming from me.

I never pretended it came from you, you claimed neutrality. That was the actual timeline of events from a neutral perspective. I fixed some of what you pretended as neutral and changed some of your sly 1 sided commentary to point it the other way noticed how neutral it was?

Neutrality is neutral coming from any side what matters if it comes from you or not? Unless you've attempted to lace propaganda into your neutral claims.

Stuff like "To this point there is STILL no attempt from Sanc to negotiate a CF with MA, not even publicly in the forums." I can easily change it to " To this point there is STILL no attempt from MA to negotiate a CF with Sanc, not even publicly in the forums."

Kid if you wanna be neutral don't be sly about it. Don't be a whitewash hypocrite.

[tak3shi]

They planed Sanctuary to rob us for slow our prepare vs notice. I don't say Sanctuary don't have right to rob us, but its risk because we can wave them and they cant really fight back. The planed part was: you will double hostile us don't matter if we have real hostile. Notice don't give you right to wave in active hostile.

Dorje accuse us in cheat: bug abuse, after it i accuse them for intra alliance farming. He accuse us in forum i made same. Goodz reported me for target share and i didn't got my account punished, so its clear i didn't broke forum rules. Taunt was send from some other kd and i didn't know for it till some one asked me in irc about it.

Never mind, figured it out. There are 0 tpa/wpa mods of any sort in fortified, only gains mods. This is, obviously, in conflict with the age changes + guide which have been updated to reflect this. What fortified does is reduce gains, which do indeed stack.

That Fort mechanic didn't function as intended so it was a supposed abuse or an unfair advantage, whether you did it intentionally only you know. If you pick cleric and you don't have less 50% losses is that a bug or not? Fort clearly stated at the start of the age that it reduce thievery and magic effectiveness + gains.

I think the intra alliance farming started when Dorje said you either weren't cf'ed with some allies or you broke cf with some allies. Then he said he would break cf with his allies too unless you cf your allies which he suspected you were farming.

Just because you targetshared on forums and got scot free doesn't mean it's right, you got away speeding doesn't mean speeding is right. How would you like to be target shared everytime you are low on thieves? If you don't like it who in their right mind would like it?

[Soul_Hunter]

So you claim that all kds last 2 ages who robbed in fort were abusing bug? And also you said 2 ages ago there was no such bug? So the bug came last age? And if it was so, after we had zillion of pages about TFC and their strats in forum still you think dorje had no idea how robbing works in fort?

[Ezzerland]

I never pretended it came from you, you claimed neutrality. That was the actual timeline of events from a neutral perspective. I fixed some of what you pretended as neutral and changed some of your sly 1 sided commentary to point it the other way noticed how neutral it was?

Neutrality is neutral coming from any side what matters if it comes from you or not? Unless you've attempted to lace propaganda into your neutral claims.

Stuff like "To this point there is STILL no attempt from Sanc to negotiate a CF with MA, not even publicly in the forums." I can easily change it to " To this point there is STILL no attempt from MA to negotiate a CF with Sanc, not even publicly in the forums."

Kid if you wanna be neutral don't be sly about it. Don't be a whitewash hypocrite.

Without clarifying you made changes, you are claiming it came from me as the quote clearly has my name attached to it. And no, you cannot, as AMA did publicly make a CF offer to sanc. A **** one, absolutely. And there is no reason for sanc to even consider the offer. but they never counter offered. Facts are facts as presented. You, like ASF, 100% ignore the FACT that my post is based on only public information and that it clearly states that it's welcome to criticism. I simply expected some decency from any of those that disagree'd but i can see your own personal bias gets in the way of speaking intelligently.

[Elldallan]

That Fort mechanic didn't function as intended so it was a supposed abuse or an unfair advantage, whether you did it intentionally only you know. If you pick cleric and you don't have less 50% losses is that a bug or not? Fort clearly stated at the start of the age that it reduce thievery and magic effectiveness + gains.

I think the intra alliance farming started when Dorje said you either weren't cf'ed with some allies or you broke cf with some allies. Then he said he would break cf with his allies too unless you cf your allies which he suspected you were farming.

Just because you targetshared on forums and got scot free doesn't mean it's right, you got away speeding doesn't mean speeding is right. How would you like to be target shared everytime you are low on thieves? If you don't like it who in their right mind would like it?

dorje claimed he knew the bug existed for magic and since it was implemented at the same time as magic and in the same way it's extremely silly to not expect thievery to work the exact same way. Dorje knew or should at least suspect bug existed for thievery as well. He's just trying to come up with any excuse to call Elit a cheater and to justify the double hostile.

Without clarifying you made changes, you are claiming it came from me as the quote clearly has my name attached to it. And no, you cannot, as AMA did publicly make a CF offer to sanc. A **** one, absolutely. And there is no reason for sanc to even consider the offer. but they never counter offered. Facts are facts as presented. You, like ASF, 100% ignore the FACT that my post is based on only public information and that it clearly states that it's welcome to criticism. I simply expected some decency from any of those that disagree'd but i can see your own personal bias gets in the way of speaking intelligently.

Aye Ezzerland, Elit's cf offer was an obvious troll, but also any cf offer from sanct that doesn't include a notice reset and cf extension with Havoc would never fly either :)

[fwordz]

Fort clearly stated at the start of the age that it reduce thievery and magic effectiveness + gains.

No it did not, the change happened in age 55.

[fwordz]

dorje claimed he knew the bug existed for magic and since it was implemented at the same time as magic and in the same way it's extremely silly to not expect thievery to work the exact same way. Dorje knew or should at least suspect bug existed for thievery as well. He's just trying to come up with any excuse to call Elit a cheater and to justify the double hostile.

This!!