AMA vs sanct round 2

[JJ NA]

nobody cares, someone just press a button and post news

[tak3shi]

So you claim that all kds last 2 ages who robbed in fort were abusing bug? And also you said 2 ages ago there was no such bug? So the bug came last age? And if it was so, after we had zillion of pages about TFC and their strats in forum still you think dorje had no idea how robbing works in fort?

Did you ignore Bishops quote? I bet a lot of people don't know the bug because it explicitly states otherwise. As to whether or not Elit "abused" it and whether Dorje was aware of it. I don't know that's why I can't claim the abuse as a fact but does it give an advantage over one without the information yes. From Dorje's bugs thread he appeared to have no clue on how it worked, if he did really know of the bug and didn't have a counter plan against what 6-10 halfers? Then all the time you spent prepping to war Sanc must have been in vain, you could have won without any war leaders leading the war and your whole council on holiday!

Without clarifying you made changes, you are claiming it came from me as the quote clearly has my name attached to it. And no, you cannot, as AMA did publicly make a CF offer to sanc. A **** one, absolutely. And there is no reason for sanc to even consider the offer. but they never counter offered. Facts are facts as presented. You, like ASF, 100% ignore the FACT that my post is based on only public information and that it clearly states that it's welcome to criticism. I simply expected some decency from any of those that disagree'd but i can see your own personal bias gets in the way of speaking intelligently.

"This looks about right, now. " Shows attempts to show it has been edited, the only reason it still appeared as quoted by you because you claimed neutrality. If I was not clear enough then I apologize, I also apologize from turning your biased "neutrality post" into an actual neutrality post with bits of sarcasm. Clearly you have no respect for neutrality, because data is data. How you construct it shows your biased views.

Besides basing neutrality post on highly biased opinions without taking papers, talking to those involved and monitoring the situation in utopia and utopia forum is incredibly naive for someone who claims to be intelligent.

• Sanc claims fort is bugged and they got screwed because they under trained
• MA asks Sanc to prove they have in game cf's with other abs allies and are not gc farming after it's rumored there are abs banks with tons of gc and 0 thieves.
• Havoc breaks cf with sanc to prove this.
• Sanc steals a minimum (admitted) near 30 mil gc from havoc.
• Sanc and Havoc re-cf
• Couple of abs kds get taunts about their 0 thief banks with gazillions of gc
• No in-game communication or IRC communication is made between sanc and MA.
• Sanc makes a gripe about the 'abuse' of fort from MA in public forums and says they'd be willing to re-cf since they lost gobs of gc due to being under trained
• MA says it's not their fault sanc under trained
• MA waves sanc
• Sanc declares war
• There was still no actual diplomacy between either kd up to this point (this was complained about later, so mentioning again now)
• MA defeats sanc in war
• Sanc robs gc from MA
• MA waves sanc citing robberies
• Havoc+Sanc Claim MA is dodging Havoc (This is and always will be a faulted assumption due to sanc robbing MA, period)
• To this point there is STILL no attempt from sanc to negotiate a CF with MA, not even publicly in the forums.
• Dragons and hits are exchanged between both kingdoms.
• MA states they will re-cf sanc AND agree to war Havoc if Havoc will reinstate CF for 1 week time to recoup the damage from Sanc.
• Havoc refuses to re-cf MA, citing having been "target shared" when it was requested to prove they were not inter-alliance farming.
• Sanc does not respond at all regarding CF offer.
• Sanc + MA hit fort
• Sanc sends an in-game CF without terms
• Havoc waves MA claiming Hostile with sanc is void (despite no resolve to the conflict).
• Sanc claims no hostility with MA (despite no resolve to the conflict).
• Pew Pew waves Sanc, double hostiling them.

The above 'facts' are what has been publicly presented taking both sides into account. Please feel free to review and question them if your side feels I have misspoken or forgotten 'facts'.

Everything on Abs is claimed, abs claims this/that as if every statement they say is dubious but for MA whatever MA says are treated as facts. Like the fort bug, did you even bother? You claim you want to be neutral you didn't even put in an ounce of effort to be neutral to check the damn bugs forum. Test it out if there was an actual bug but easily put it as Abs claimed bla2 and put it as neutral. You're either extremely lazy and biased or totally ignorant of what neutrality actually means.
[*]There was still no actual diplomacy between either kd up to this point (this was complained about later, so mentioning again now) - This is neutral
[*]To this point there is STILL no attempt from sanc to negotiate a CF with MA, not even publicly in the forums. - This is biased and the actual neutral comment is as above.

But your comments are laced with so many biased comments and inaccuracies your "unbiased honest view" is utterly laughable. I treated it as ignorance initially and tried to help you but seeing how you defended your biased propaganda post it's obvious how you were trying to sell biased propaganda as "unbiased honest view". Try harder kid.

[Elit]

tak3shi, i know its waste to talk you, because don't matter what i say you will say opposite, but do you really believe we made our setup based to some magical bug? Its not serious, our setup is standard warring setup. Second, Sanctuary never try to contact us and make any deal. its fact.
Another simple fact is we had meter ~~60vs50 with sanctuary when Havoc wave us. Its clear double hostile dont matter what arguments you going to bring.
Pew Pew wave on Sanctuary is legit based to ABS logic. They claim Sanctuary don't have hostile with us.

[ReinS]

So many words, so little war...

[Elurin]

Can has warar?

[Elit]

So many words, so little war...

are you in havoc?

[csarmi]

"This looks about right, now. " Shows attempts to show it has been edited, the only reason it still appeared as quoted by you because you claimed neutrality. If I was not clear enough then I apologize, I also apologize from turning your biased "neutrality post" into an actual neutrality post with bits of sarcasm. Clearly you have no respect for neutrality, because data is data. How you construct it shows your biased views.

+1, Ezzerland's "list of facts" was not only not neutral, but half the "facts" posted weren't true and another quarter was posted in a misleading order...

[puzzo]

nobody cares, someone just press a button and post news

Fully agree. News summaries and warr pls :)
I have read EVEARY post in this thread and it started to repeat himself at page 8. I wish good luck to both kd-s. I feel bad abaut stealing from sanc before sanc/ama war, but i tid need that gold for sci(still lost next war lol)

[Korp]

+1, Ezzerland's "list of facts" was not only not neutral, but half the "facts" posted weren't true and another quarter was posted in a misleading order...

So, please enlighten us which ones were false? Since you seem to grasped this whole situation perfectly albeit you dont have anything to do with it.

[Elit]

Fully agree. News summaries and warr pls :)
I have read EVEARY post in this thread and it started to repeat himself at page 8. I wish good luck to both kd-s. I feel bad abaut stealing from sanc before sanc/ama war, but i tid need that gold for sci(still lost next war lol)

When havoc waved us we trade hits with Sanctuary for 48h. They FG all our gold, havoc had 1.5 billions gold. Sanctuary FB max from our provinces, lead to cant draft/train. Havoc had all his kd trained on over 80% draft. Our cows loss much army from trade hits and meteors. Had massive under poped so its lead Havoc cows 10-15% smaller size have over 20-30% more army. In short this double hostile catch us in very bad shape thanks to Sanctuary make his best to hurt us max. So instant declare war will lead being farmed for min time war for over 30-40% from our land. Its not correct move for sure. We trade 2 waves with havoc for get GBp and after it hit fort stance to reduce our land losses but its still alot. From one side they have much better war sci from other side we use anonymity when attack.
So far we are doing our best in this complete bad situation for us. For example Havoc gold was robed :)
Summary:

** Kingdom news report **
For the time from April 2 of YR8 till June 1 of YR8 - 48 hours
[ http://home-world.org/utopia/formatter/ - Seraphim online formatter ]


** Summary **
Total attacks made: 61 (27,971 acres)
-- Traditional march: 56 (26,581 acres)
-- Ambush: 3 (797 acres)
-- Conquest: 2 (593 acres)
-- Uniques: 8
Total attacks suffered: 85 (41,600 acres)
-- Traditional march: 82 (41,600 acres)
-- Failed: 3 (3.5% failure)
-- Uniques: 65

** The kingdom of AMA **
Total land exchanged: -13,629 (61/85)
+23,191 An unknown province (53/0)
+500 Stand up Straight (1 [1]/0)
-507 You Cant Do Anything Right (0/1)
-574 Dont end up like your Father (0/1)
-728 Use your brain (1 [1]/2)
-920 Incest Is Best (1 [1]/2)
-1,076 Get married I want grandkids (1 [1]/1)
-1,238 Youll go blind doing that (0/4)
-1,598 Do it right the first time (0/8)
-2,188 You Are Doing It Wrong (0/6)
-2,437 You were a mistake (0/2)
-2,501 Clean Your Room (0/7)
-2,904 Get off the couch an get a Job (2 [2]/14)
-3,401 Dont put that in your mouth (0/3)
-3,519 Dont forget to use a condom (1 [1]/15)
-3,576 Dont play in puddles (0/10)
-4,306 Turn That Music Down (0/5)
-5,847 Drink as much as you can (1 [1]/4)


** The kingdom of Havoc**
Total land exchanged: +13,629 (85/61)
+6,005 Under Pressure (4 [4]/0)
+2,598 Flash (1 [1]/0)
+2,256 Princes of the Universe (3 [3]/2)
+1,414 Dont Stop Me Now (1 [1]/0)
+1,290 The Invisble Man (5 [4]/2)
+1,168 Freddie Mercury (6 [4]/3)
+1,151 Love of My Life (3 [3]/2)
+941 Bohemian Rhapsody (5 [3]/0)
+809 The Wedding March (6 [4]/4)
+773 Fat Bottomed Girls (7 [4]/5)
+760 Too much love will kill you (1 [1]/0)
+605 Mother Love (4 [4]/1)
+586 Death on two legs (5 [4]/1)
+397 I Want It All (6 [4]/4)
-134 Great King Rat (7 [4]/6)
-238 We Will Rock You (5 [4]/5)
-465 Stone Cold Crazy (0/1)
-484 The Show Must Go On (2 [2]/1)
-553 Another One Bites The Dust (4 [4]/5)
-702 Died of Aids (6 [4]/8)
-966 Killer Queen (0/1)
-980 We Are The Champions (0/1)
-1,023 noooo timeee for looosers (4 [3]/7)
-1,579 Ogre Battle (0/2)

[Elldallan]

Tak3shi Bishop admitted that there is n inconsistency between the guide and the bonuses fort actually provides. Fort provides the same protection from outside interference as war does but to a lesser extent, it is probably as intended but not as written.

Never mind, figured it out. There are 0 tpa/wpa mods of any sort in fortified, only gains mods. This is, obviously, in conflict with the age changes + guide which have been updated to reflect this. What fortified does is reduce gains, which do indeed stack.

That is not to say it is the same thing as that Elit and MA knew of this or acted on it. On the other hand dorje obviously ought to have known about it as he claimed he knew there was an inconsistency in the way wpa worked in fort fort relations and there is absolutely no reason to believe that something implemented at the exact same time with the exact same intentions with the exact same intended results would work differently. Any programmer would simply copypaste the code from one place to another, not write it twice(or write it once and implement it as a function that can be called by both tpa and wpa formulas), this is basic logic and one has to assume that dorje as an apparently functional individual has the ability to reason both rationally and logically.

[ReinS]

are you in havoc?

Yes..

[Elit]

Yes..

Its why you want war so bad. I'm sure with time your wish will increase :)

[csarmi]

On the other hand dorje obviously ought to have known about it as he claimed he knew there was an inconsistency in the way wpa worked in fort fort relations and there is absolutely no reason to believe that something implemented at the exact same time with the exact same intentions with the exact same intended results would work differently. Any programmer would simply copypaste the code from one place to another, not write it twice(or write it once and implement it as a function that can be called by both tpa and wpa formulas), this is basic logic and one has to assume that dorje as an apparently functional individual has the ability to reason both rationally and logically.

Except that we know for a fact that magic and thievery works on a completely different basis (and sometimes in rather weird and buggy ways, for instance, take magic and sapphire dragon).

In fact, in the past there were people pointing out (for instance) that intra kd magic/thievery is penalized during war (MV, stealing) and Bishop said thievery is penalized where magic isn't. I can't even recall at this moment if you get penalized for intra kd intel or robbing when during fort...

There must be a whole lot of mess going on everywhere in thievery/magic (even w/o fortified or war) mechanics and formulas so no sane people would try to make assumtions on one based on the other.

As for thievery/magic working the same into fortified and into war: I believe you do get -75% tpa/wpa when opping into war. Can I be sure? After this? I wouldn't.

[csarmi]

So, please enlighten us which ones were false? Since you seem to grasped this whole situation perfectly albeit you dont have anything to do with it.

1, 2, 4, 7, 11, 14, 15 ... for most of them it's just the misleading order and the wording that makes them non-facts (and not true that way)